Tongues???
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That's a very vague way of trying to brush the issue away.
If the texts are accurate either Irenaeus was telling the truth or lying about the church he was a part of raising the dead, long after the book of Revelation was written, a couple of generations later.
CHURCH FATHERS: Church History, Book V (Eusebius)
History doesn't fit your belief system.
If the texts are accurate either Irenaeus was telling the truth or lying about the church he was a part of raising the dead, long after the book of Revelation was written, a couple of generations later.
CHURCH FATHERS: Church History, Book V (Eusebius)
History doesn't fit your belief system.
If there is knowledge. Not all knowledge. Just cases in which there are knowledge. That is how I understand it. If someone there are tongues. Not all tongues. Not the gift of tongues. But if there are tongues. That's how I take it. This part is not an eschatological pronouncement. The part about that which is in part being done away is eschatological.
well wouldn't that be your position as well?
what besides scripture can we count on?
the local prophet or apostle? <--those guys don't even know that scriptures, let alone be revealing inspired doctrine.
if their new doctrines are inspired, why doesn't the Lord direct us to add them all to the Bible?
Jesus was sealing up the doctrines with Revelation. nobody can add to it - yet around the globe we have ppl doing exactly that.
it's disgusting
what besides scripture can we count on?
the local prophet or apostle? <--those guys don't even know that scriptures, let alone be revealing inspired doctrine.
if their new doctrines are inspired, why doesn't the Lord direct us to add them all to the Bible?
Jesus was sealing up the doctrines with Revelation. nobody can add to it - yet around the globe we have ppl doing exactly that.
it's disgusting
H
I'll say your understanding is quite high. I've never heard anyone talk as you do.. so I do have to take back all my comments and apologize bc I have to reconsider everything I've listened to.. everyone teaches reliance on a sign of some sort. But I never looked at it how you present it... thanks..
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Tell me how this works ? The following verses make it clear that prophecy, tongues and knowledge pass away or cease at some point in time .. and prior to faith, hope and love .. because we are told that the latter three will still remain. Agreed so far ? Now .. if tongues do not cease until we are in the Lord's presence .. and we already know that faith, hope and love remain after tongues have ceased .. why are faith and hope still lingering (present) when our faith has already been rewarded and our hope fully realized ? Remember .. we are now in our Lord's glorious presence. Are faith and hope necessary in heaven when we are now seeing our God as He is ? .. Hebrews 11:1 .. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith and hope only remain until such a time. Tongues cease prior to faith and hope. What then can we conclude .. and only conclude ? Saying known languages can't cease has nothing to do with the true gift of tongues exhibited in Acts .. and is a silly argument, at best.
1 Corinthians 8:13
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 8:13
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
No one should be adding new doctrines to the faith. The faith was 'once delivered to the saints.' That is one of the problems with the ideas you are promoting. You don't even have a real proof text for some of them. For example, you don't have a proof text at all for the idea that miracles ceased. You haven't shown a single verse. i asked for one, and you showed a passage that doesn't mention miracles ceasing at all. I wonder if you actually see the words there in your mind, words that aren't on the page.
Adding doctrines to the Bible and getting prophecies are not the same thing, btw. I could give you a long list of prophecies and revelations that are alluded to in the Bible, but the words aren't written there. Whatever the seven thunders said was a revelation, but it was not written in the Bible. John was told to seal them up. Samuel was established as a prophet in Israel between that one prophecy we read that he gave about Eli and the time he was an old man, but we don't know what he prophesied. He told Saul that prophets would meet him. They prophesied, but we don't know what they said. The text of Saul's prophecies aren't recorded in scripture, either.
Micaiah prophesied the death of Ahab. Before he did, Ahab told the king of Judah the reason he hadn't brought him out was because, "He never prophesies anything good about me." We don't have any of Micaiah's previous prophecies in scripture. We don't have the prophecies of the sons of the prophets, or the prophecies of established prophets who show up for brief episodes.
The argument that, "if you get a prophecy, you have to add it to the Bible" doesn't hold water because the Bible doesn't contain all prophecies. It doesn't contain all revelation that God has given. All of creation doesn't fit on our shelf, and God has revealed Himself through creation, too, so that, like Romans 1 teaches, men are without excuse.
Adding doctrines to the Bible and getting prophecies are not the same thing, btw. I could give you a long list of prophecies and revelations that are alluded to in the Bible, but the words aren't written there. Whatever the seven thunders said was a revelation, but it was not written in the Bible. John was told to seal them up. Samuel was established as a prophet in Israel between that one prophecy we read that he gave about Eli and the time he was an old man, but we don't know what he prophesied. He told Saul that prophets would meet him. They prophesied, but we don't know what they said. The text of Saul's prophecies aren't recorded in scripture, either.
Micaiah prophesied the death of Ahab. Before he did, Ahab told the king of Judah the reason he hadn't brought him out was because, "He never prophesies anything good about me." We don't have any of Micaiah's previous prophecies in scripture. We don't have the prophecies of the sons of the prophets, or the prophecies of established prophets who show up for brief episodes.
The argument that, "if you get a prophecy, you have to add it to the Bible" doesn't hold water because the Bible doesn't contain all prophecies. It doesn't contain all revelation that God has given. All of creation doesn't fit on our shelf, and God has revealed Himself through creation, too, so that, like Romans 1 teaches, men are without excuse.
No More Prophets
No More Prophets | SermonAudio.com
46 minutes
"We believe, however, that the ceasing of revelatory and sign-gifts in the time of the apostles is very plainly taught in God’s Word, so plainly, in fact, that the opposite view has only seriously appeared in the last 100 years or so."
Cessationism | Charismatic Gifts | What is Cessationism? | Proving that Charismatic Gifts have ceased - Metropolitan Tabernacle
The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
No More Prophets | SermonAudio.com
46 minutes
"We believe, however, that the ceasing of revelatory and sign-gifts in the time of the apostles is very plainly taught in God’s Word, so plainly, in fact, that the opposite view has only seriously appeared in the last 100 years or so."
Cessationism | Charismatic Gifts | What is Cessationism? | Proving that Charismatic Gifts have ceased - Metropolitan Tabernacle
The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource
the knowledge he's talking about is supernatural knowledge from God concerning the new doctrines being brought in (NT) via the disciples and paul.
THAT kind of supernatural gift ceased as we got the NT.
why would partial knowledge be better than complete knowledge (of everything God intends to tell us)?
if your answer is that He's not done telling us everything (hence the new prophets), it comes back to my question - why isn't the new information being added to canon?
if the answer is no, then what good is the information?
uh...in what sense?
eschatologically for the disciples that which is in part was done away with - for that which is complete, and which you can hold in your hand.
if the knowledge referred to is sum total knowledge....or any other kind of (non-cessationial) knowledge, how can it be done away when that which is perfect comes (if it refers to the Lord and eternity) - will ppl be worshipping God with no knowledge?
THAT kind of supernatural gift ceased as we got the NT.
why would partial knowledge be better than complete knowledge (of everything God intends to tell us)?
if your answer is that He's not done telling us everything (hence the new prophets), it comes back to my question - why isn't the new information being added to canon?
if the answer is no, then what good is the information?
uh...in what sense?
eschatologically for the disciples that which is in part was done away with - for that which is complete, and which you can hold in your hand.
if the knowledge referred to is sum total knowledge....or any other kind of (non-cessationial) knowledge, how can it be done away when that which is perfect comes (if it refers to the Lord and eternity) - will ppl be worshipping God with no knowledge?