Global Universalism built by Hypergrace Teachers

[Depleted]

Hey. Can we keep in mind we love each other?

Liberal!

LOL Just kidding. Really, really just kidding! (Even if you are, which I don't know.)

 

[FreeNChrist]

My best friend in High School used to fight with his older brother all the time. To the point where they both almost got kicked out of school.

Neither one of them ever fought with anyone else...

Kind of funny...

You should see the stuff that goes on in seminaries.

 

[Stephen63]

Hey. Can we keep in mind we love each other?

I wish you told them that before you let 'em in here.

 

[Magenta]

Context is King.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Do you keep his commandments? ("May not" in the first verse means something.)

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Were you the only one who came out of the darkness because you really really wanted to, instead of God carrying you out? (The reaction of Man in verses 18-20 means something.)

Not all are saved. And the Savior is Jesus. We do NOT save ourselves, nor did he ever save every conceived person ever.

World has more than one meaning. Context reveals the meaning.

(Fallacy explained.)

Who said all are saved? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, Period.
Does that mean all are saved? No, because not all come into the Light.
Not all believe. That was the point being made, and it stands.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think it is hard to escape that Jesus taught "inclusivity", and not "exclusivity."

While I agree in the fact that the option is open unto all a far as Salvation goes....Jesus did say to the Pharisees that where he was going they would not be allowed to go HAH

 

[Willie-T]

While I agree in the fact that the option is open unto all a far as Salvation goes....Jesus did say to the Pharisees that where he was going they would not be allowed to go HAH

Since I don't think you are talking about John 13:36 where Jesus is talking to His disciples, you must mean:
John 8:21 KJV: Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. ... Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered ... I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins

He clearly did not say they were "not allowed" (your words quoted for Lynn) to go. Not because of who they were, their positions in the government, or anything like that. He said, that because they chose not to believe, they had effectively locked themselves out of that access. They were certainly invited to believe, just like the disciples, and join Jesus later... just like the disciples were. But they could not come with their present mindset, because they chose not to believe.

 

[Depleted]

Who said all are saved? Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, Period.
Does that mean all are saved? No, because not all come into the Light.
Not all believe. That was the point being made, and it stands.

That would be a different discussion.

I was explaining the fallacy of this:

The scriptures do show that Christ is the Savior of the whole world - but they also say that we must believe what Christ has already done for us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus finished work on behalf of the world is very obvious to me...but hey - people can believe what they want.

They are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation too if they want. Personally I think that idea is "for the birds."...

I will state what I have said again "in context" with scripture and leave it at that.

There is a massive difference between "universalism" and believing in a universal atonement in Christ.

The scriptures do show that Christ [SUB]is the Savior of the whole world [/SUB]- but they also say that we must believe what Christ has already done for us.

John 4:42 (NASB)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."

1 John 4:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

It is hard to believe but the scriptures also say that there are some that reject Christ's sacrifice for sins and if we reject His work on the cross and resurrection - there is no more sacrifice for sins but an expectation of judgment.

John 3:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The blood of Jesus has been shed - the Lamb has taken away the sin of the world but people must believe this in order to receive it for themselves.

Peter preaching the gospel - this is a word for word account of the real gospel being preached to the gentiles.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel - another word for word account of the real gospel being preached - only this time to the Jews.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.



Those who believe - receive the forgiveness of sins through His Name. We are to proclaim that they have the forgiveness of sins through His name because they believe in Christ's finished work.

This is the true gospel message of the Lord Jesus Christ.Oh - how we have watered down the true message of the finished work of Christ and "replaced" it with our church traditions.

It is called "good news" for a reason. We have a great salvation in our Lord.

 

[dcontroversal]

Since I don't think you are talking about John 13:36 where Jesus is talking to His disciples, you must mean:
John 8:21 KJV: Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come. ... Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered ... I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins

He clearly did not say they were "not allowed" (your words quoted for Lynn) to go. Not because of who they were, their positions in the government, or anything like that. He said, that because they chose not to believe, they had effectively locked themselves out of that access. They were certainly invited to believe, just like the disciples, and join Jesus later... just like the disciples were. But they could not come with their present mindset, because they chose not to believe.

Totally agree Willy-T

 

[Magenta]

That would be a different discussion.

I was explaining the fallacy of this:

Really? That is not what you responded to at all! So perhaps you can understand why I find it difficult to believe, when you quoted me, and posed your Calvinistic biased questions to me, as if I had said anything to warrant your attitude. Your supposed fallacy explanation did nothing to refute the Scriptures I supplied in the context of the conversation. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Scriptures attest to that fact, and I promote it.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus finished work on behalf of the world is very obvious to me...but hey - people can believe what they want.

They are free to believe that Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation too if they want. Personally I think that idea is "for the birds."...

I will state what I have said again "in context" with scripture and leave it at that.

There is a massive difference between "universalism" and believing in a universal atonement in Christ.

The scriptures do show that Christ [SUB]is the Savior of the whole world [/SUB]- but they also say that we must believe what Christ has already done for us.

John 4:42 (NASB)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and they were saying to the woman, "It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One is indeed the Savior of the world."

1 John 4:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Timothy 4:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

It is hard to believe but the scriptures also say that there are some that reject Christ's sacrifice for sins and if we reject His work on the cross and resurrection - there is no more sacrifice for sins but an expectation of judgment.

John 3:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The blood of Jesus has been shed - the Lamb has taken away the sin of the world but people must believe this in order to receive it for themselves.

Peter preaching the gospel - this is a word for word account of the real gospel being preached to the gentiles.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Here is Paul preaching the exact same gospel - another word for word account of the real gospel being preached - only this time to the Jews.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.


Those who believe - receive the forgiveness of sins through His Name. We are to proclaim that they have the forgiveness of sins through His name because they believe in Christ's finished work.

This is the true gospel message of the Lord Jesus Christ.Oh - how we have watered down the true message of the finished work of Christ and "replaced" it with our church traditions.

It is called "good news" for a reason. We have a great salvation in our Lord.

Amen, Bruce, and praise the Lord!

 

[Bladerunner]

I don't see a free-for-all. This is a subject I pulled from a Universalist website that's FOR hypergrace, not against it.

Is that not what Sticky #1 is about....no Hypergrace threads?


Actually I find it rather a continuation of the "falling away of the Church" or " Apostasy of the Church" at hypersonic speeds.

To debate about pre-mid-post trib is one thing...We all believe in the Gospel of Christ and the way we are saved. However, in one or two of the threads I have simply quite posting because of the apparent apostasy by a lot of members.

The Bible tells to have nothing to do with this type of teaching!

 

[Stephen63]

Now, I understand that reading this stuff seem like a lot of hoopla.

But..... the REAL POINT of all of this is this "New Grace" teaching is ONLY ONE POINT OF DIFFERENCE FROM UNIVERSALISM!

How do we accept one, & reject the other, when they're just one point of difference apart?

Brought foward.....

 

[Depleted]

Really? That is not what you responded to at all! So perhaps you can understand why I find it difficult to believe, when you quoted me, and posed your Calvinistic biased questions to me, as if I had said anything to warrant your attitude. Your supposed fallacy explanation did nothing to refute the Scriptures I supplied in the context of the conversation. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Scriptures attest to that fact, and I promote it.

I have no idea how to respond when I was telling Grace70 the fallacy of his statement was Jesus is "the Savior of the whole world" and then you want me to explain how Jesus died for all sins. Sort of like debating, "The sun lights Earth' and then you decided to prove it doesn't by proving it's hot.

I honestly thought your response was to my response to Grace, so I answered as if it were that. And then you come back saying that wasn't your intent (even though it was related to the verses you used), but I'm wrong because it wasn't what you said.

Well, gee whiz. I never said Grace70 said Jesus died for all sins was a fallacy. I don't even remember if he thinks that's true. So why, if that's your angle, get into that discussion, since that wasn't THAT discussion? And now you want me to fly off on if Jesus died for all sin? What are you expecting but something that you can also disagree with, (with your non-Calvinist bias, might I assume?) since clearly that is your intent by now?

 

[Magenta]

I have no idea how to respond when I was telling Grace70 the fallacy of his statement was Jesus is "the Savior of the whole world" and then you want me to explain how Jesus died for all sins. Sort of like debating, "The sun lights Earth' and then you decided to prove it doesn't by proving it's hot.

I didn't ask anything of you, so you can remove that falsehood from the equation completely. I posted Scripture that fit with the flow of the conversation and you responded to my post and asked me questions with your attitude and bias which I do not need nor do I appreciate it. What the heck are you even going on about here, Lynn? You sure are making up a lot of crap.

 

[Depleted]

Is that not what Sticky #1 is about....no Hypergrace threads?


Actually I find it rather a continuation of the "falling away of the Church" or " Apostasy of the Church" at hypersonic speeds.

To debate about pre-mid-post trib is one thing...We all believe in the Gospel of Christ and the way we are saved. However, in one or two of the threads I have simply quite posting because of the apparent apostasy by a lot of members.

The Bible tells to have nothing to do with this type of teaching!

The following question is something I'd like to figure out, so please don't consider this as something I'm arguing with you about. I really don't know what to do in this case.

But what happens to the babes in Christ who can take it as gospel and then spend decades before figuring out where they got it wrong? Do we have an obligation to them?

(Okay, sorry. That was two questions.)

 

[Depleted]

I didn't ask anything of you, so you can remove that falsehood from the equation completely. I posted Scripture that fit with the flow of the conversation and you responded to my post and asked me questions with your attitude and bias which I do not need nor do I appreciate it. What the heck are you even going on about here, Lynn? You sure are making up a lot of crap.

I was participating in this thread before you showed up. Was your response related to Grace70's post that time? Or was it just a fluke? You just happened to come along posting verses about Jesus dying for "the whole world" and then poof, it turns into Jesus dying for all sins?

Who is the game player?

Did someone pinch your coffee and now you're looking for someone to yell at and put down? Clue. I'm not your punching bag. Keep this up and I punch back!

 

[Depleted]

Brought foward.....

I'm guessing no one wants to deal with accepting or rejecting the one point difference. It's okay to say Jesus died for the whole world, but not to say he really died for the whole world.

 

[Bladerunner]

The following question is something I'd like to figure out, so please don't consider this as something I'm arguing with you about. I really don't know what to do in this case.

But what happens to the babes in Christ who can take it as gospel and then spend decades before figuring out where they got it wrong? Do we have an obligation to them?

(Okay, sorry. That was two questions.)

Then HOW do you propose to get it from the mouths of the teachers on this site (-me) to their ears?

 

[Bladerunner]

Especially these new rules on grace.

please specify the 'NEW RULES'