What percenter are you?

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What percenter are you?

  • I'm in the 80% range

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • I'm in the 60% range

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm in the 40% range

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • I'm in the 20% range

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • I'm in the 10% range

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • I'm in the 5% range

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm in the 1% range

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • Total voters
    12
D

Depleted

Guest
#81
My expenses are:
15k in taxes
15k in rent
3.5k in forced healthcare costs
2k for gas
1k for car insurance
That leaves me about 8k a year to live life, including buying food, clothing and meeting the needs of my two dogs. And for the record, life in Central New Jersey is way more expensive than 95% of all other areas in America.
But I'm happy!
2K for gas? Pffft! Not enough. Good news though, your legislators just raised the amount they're gonna get you for gas, because... well? You've been living there long enough. Surely it's for education and the elderly again. (Same tune they played back in the 70's and the elder and education hasn't improved yet.)

To tell you the truth, until they passed that tax increase, we contributed to the Jersey economy at any opportunity, because your gas was cheap enough it made the $5 to cross the bridge worth it. It's still cheaper, but not enough anymore. And since our city made the "wise" move to tax all soda (all soda, not just sugary soda like their original excuse gave) at 1.5% an ounce, we'll be going out of town to shop starting in January.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
58
#82
Just trying to get a picture of the economic demographic that makes up this group at CC (in an effort to understand the overwhelming consensus that shortchanging workers in the effort to horde riches is ok). Thanks for pitching in!
Ok ?
How dose a persons income level give you insight in to why a person thinks one way or the other ?
Another question if you don't mind. How would you remedy the problem without infringing on others freedom?
Blessings
Bill
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#83
Say what? Just because you're blaming everyone else doesn't mean we're playing your blame game. What about YOU?

You didn't even notice most of us supposedly "supporting the rich" aren't rich. We're poorer than you. So, does that mean we're supposed to post all those verses at YOU? Once again, you heard a need and are still on your "but it's not my fault" preaching. You just became yet another christian who ignored family.

Who, out of all the people who responded, even said they were out "seeking rich?"

One! YOU! And you're seeking the rich to take care of the poor so you don't have to.
Lynn, I'm going to let this one pass on the basis that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

You're obviously not following another thread, because if you were you'd be embarrassed at what you are accusing me of.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#84
Ok ?
How dose a persons income level give you insight in to why a person thinks one way or the other ?
Another question if you don't mind. How would you remedy the problem without infringing on others freedom?
Blessings
Bill
I would assume that those who horde wealth would be for hording wealth and those who work like dogs to make poverty-level pay would be against it. Yet I am sadly finding that to be not true. And I guess that was the data I was seeking here. Is it just the rich that approves of hoarding wealth or is it across the spectrum? People like Lynn are proving that it's across the spectrum.

*

As I stated before here, my wife and I do all we can to spread our wealth to those less fortunate than we are. Yet I am finding out via the likes of Lynn et al that the less fortunate don't want our help. Amazing. They'll fight till they're under a bridge for their right to be treated like slaves. And slap me in the face for having the audacity to think they ought to be treated better, that we ought to treat each other as Jesus clearly instructed us to.

I can only imagine Jesus teaching today. Telling the crowd about the kingdom of heaven, a rich man comes up to Him and says Master what must I do the inherit the kingdom of God? Jesus tells him 'sell all you have and support the poor'. The rich kid says 'hey, I invested and earned that money, I don't have to share it with anybody!'. Then as Jesus is about to answer, the impoverished in the crowd chant out 'yeah leave the rich man alone! If he doesn't want to pay a fair day's wages for a fair day's labor he doesn't have to, that's his right!' I'm betting that, like me, Jesus would be dumbfounded at what He's hearing.

I'm not sure what to do now. We don't want a big bank account, as I said every dollar we have in the bank here is one we've not invested in heaven with God. But if those less fortunate really don't want or appreciate what we are trying to do for them with it, why should we continue? Repeating what I said earlier, we don't use automated cash registers because we want cashiers to keep their jobs. We spend every penny we take in because spending and consumerism is the only hope the poor and working poor have of keeping what little they have now. If someone with a legitimate need asks for help, we will do what we can to help them. But hey, if you people are not gong to appreciate it and are going to very wrongly accuse us of grubbing money, then I guess we're going to stop helping others with it and start hording it as is evidently our right.

I mean, Lynn, if you're going to sentence me with the time, then I might as well do the crime, right?
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#85
Ricky,

I genuinely appreciate, and respect, the fact that you want to use your money to help others.

Where we disagree is about economic theory at the macro level.
We disagree about the best economic theory for a society in whole.

I would suggest it's wonderful that you are kind hearted enough to help others with your money,
but if our society was more socialistic, and the gov't took all of your money in taxes...
you wouldn't have any money to give anyone.

Ricky, quite sincerely, I would trust YOU to wisely distribute your money to the needy...
but I don't know I'd trust the gov't to distribute your money to the needy.
I trust you much more than I trust the govt.
 
Last edited:

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
58
#86
Hey RickyZ
Thanks for the response. It is appreciated. I understand the frustration of trying to help and feelings discouraged by the unanticipated response. I have run across the same in my work to help others . Don't give up though .
I probably don't see things the way you do . The same probably goes for you. I have bit of a conservative slant to my thinking. That dose not mean we are not on the same side . Your approach is not for everyone neither is mine . The thing is you can help some but not all in how you approach folks . In my method I wil have the same off and on results. Never give up brother !
Blessings
Bill
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#87
Firms exploiting lifesaving drugs, Senate study says

Panel’s report details how companies buy old medicines, then rapidly raise prices.
BY MELODY PETERSEN


A U.S. Senate committee detailed in an investigative report Wednesday how drug companies were exploiting the market by acquiring decades-old crucial medicines and suddenly raising their prices astronomically.

“We must work to stop the bad actors who are driving up the prices of drugs that they did nothing to develop at the expense of patients just because, as one executive essentially said, ‘because I can,’ ” said Sen. Susan Collins, a Maine Republican, who chairs the Senate Aging Committee.

Over the last year, the committee investigated four drug companies, which it said had all used a similar business model that included egregious price hikes to maximize profits.

Here are some of the key findings in the committee’s 131-page report on those companies: Turing Pharmaceuticals, Retrophin Inc., Valeant Pharmaceuticals International and Rodelis Therapeutics.

• The companies raised prices — not to fund research to discover new drugs — but to boost profits for executives and investors. In essence, they operated more like hedge funds than traditional pharmaceutical companies.

Turing, headed by executive Martin Shkreli, bought Daraprim, a 62-year-old medicine for a deadly parasitic disease, on Aug. 7, 2015, and raised the price overnight from $13.50 to $750 a pill. When asked by investors about the expected revenues from the drug, Shkreli wrote, “I think it will be huge…. So 5,000 paying bottles at the new price is $375,000,000 — almost all of it is profit, and I think we will get 3 years of that or more. Should be a very handsome investment for all of us.”

• The companies bought crucial lifesaving drugs made by one manufacturer and then worked to keep competitors out. The committee found that Turing tried to keep other companies from making generic versions of Dara-prim by restricting its distribution. Patients could not get the drug at the corner drugstore. Instead, it was delivered by a specialty pharmacy. Turing executives explained that this kept competitors from acquiring enough of the medicine to perform studies that are required to prove they can make the same drug.

• The company’s programs to help patients afford drugs weren’t charities, but a way to boost profits on their monopolies. The committee said that Valeant offered a program that covered the cost of copays for privately-insured patients because executives knew it would reduce patients’ “incentive to complain to the press about Valeant’s outrageous price increases.”

By increasing prices rapidly but covering patients’ co-pays, the companies could still make big profits, the committee said. They used the example of a drug priced at $100,000 that cost $10,000 to manufacture and distribute, leaving a potential profit of $90,000. If the company covered the patient’s $20,000 co-pay, the insurance company still paid $80,000 for the drug, resulting in a $70,000 profit for the company.

The patient assistance programs were a key method that Valeant used in raising prices for Cuprimine, used since 1956, and Syprine, developed in 1969, the committee said. Both drugs are used to treat Wilson disease, a rare condition in which the body cannot process copper. Valeant raised the prices of Cuprimine and Syprine from about $500 to about $24,000 for a 30-day supply, the report said. “The committee believes that these programs were driven not by altruism, but by Valeant’s desire to extract monopoly profits and then conceal that fact from the public,” the report said. Valeant issued a statement saying it has established a “patient access pricing committee” and has “improved transparency” under a new executive team.

• The companies raised prices on lifesaving drugs that patients were desperate to get. Committee members asked Michael Pearson, the former chief executive of Valeant, about this at an April hearing. “In your thinking about this free market system you are describing, is it a factor … [that] … the absence of Syprine could lead to liver failure or a liver transplant or even death? Is that a factor?” asked Sen. Tim Kaine, a Virginia Democrat. “It is,” Pearson responded.

• The price increases are threatening the economic stability of American households and also the health of patients who can’t afford the drugs they need. Shannon Weston told the committee how she was devastated in May 2015 when her 2-month-old daughter was diagnosed with toxoplasmosis, which can lead to blindness and death, and she learned Daraprim’s price. “I was hopeless and depressed at the thought of what would happen to my perfect little girl if I was not able to help her,” Weston said. “I looked into any way I could think of to come up with the almost $360,000 necessary to treat my daughter for a year.”

• The strategy was not limited to four companies. The senators said they had evidence that other companies had used the same strategy to aggressively raise prices. They called for policy changes to stop the practices, including improving transparency of prices, preventing the misuse of patient assistance programs and co-pay coupons, and allowing temporary imports of some drugs to lower prices. melody.petersen
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#88
honest employers.jpg
...............................
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,267
113
#89
Not sure how to take that poll. I make less than $25,000 a year for four people. Where does that put me? Poverty of course but not sure of the percentage
At 25k that puts your family at 53%, meaning that 47% of wage earners made less than you did.
i don't pretend to understand statistics or economics, but i understand that woman is a single mom.
and i understand her 25k ain't a whole lot for her and the three kiddos.

so my question is, is this a fair assessment? of course, statistically it is, but do "wage earners" include the adolescents working for minimum wage 10 hours a week?

honest question. it's not just people working full time, right?


hhhhh.... i just worry she might be wondering why she's struggling if she's making more than 53% of people in this country.

thanks.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#90
Hey RickyZ
Thanks for the response. It is appreciated. I understand the frustration of trying to help and feelings discouraged by the unanticipated response. I have run across the same in my work to help others . Don't give up though .
I probably don't see things the way you do . The same probably goes for you. I have bit of a conservative slant to my thinking. That dose not mean we are not on the same side . Your approach is not for everyone neither is mine . The thing is you can help some but not all in how you approach folks . In my method I wil have the same off and on results. Never give up brother !
Blessings
Bill
And here I was hoping he would actually answer you. Most of your answer was scolding me.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
58
#91
And here I was hoping he would actually answer you. Most of your answer was scolding me.
My answer was supposed to be about RZs feelings about the topic and his unexpected experience about trying to help others . I did not intend for I to be about you. I apologize if it came off that way . I was trying to relate how folks on both sides of the debate of should not give up in trying to help . Hopefully both groups can meet in a place where we can all agree . Granted we may all be far apart at the moment,Yet with God all things are possible. Again please accept my apology . I was not intending to disparage you or your point of view. I am trying to encourage all in Christ trying to help those who are in need, to come together.
Blessings
Bill
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#92
I have a dream of becoming filthy rich so I can help so many people who are filthy poor like the hungry and homeless. It's just a dream because it's hard to make it real if you only work for the government. It's scary to be filthy rich because the more money you have, you will become more greedy. It's a trap.

Money is a test, pass it
Money is a trap, avoid it.

Proverbs 30:9

For if I grow rich, I may deny you and say, "Who is the LORD?" And if I am too poor, I may steal and thus insult God's holy name.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#93
I have a dream of becoming filthy rich so I can help so many people who are filthy poor like the hungry and homeless. It's just a dream because it's hard to make it real if you only work for the government. It's scary to be filthy rich because the more money you have, you will become more greedy. It's a trap.

Money is a test, pass it
Money is a trap, avoid it.

Proverbs 30:9

For if I grow rich, I may deny you and say, "Who is the LORD?" And if I am too poor, I may steal and thus insult God's holy name.
It's good that you want to help people.

There was a very famous Christian businessman named R.G. Letourneau;
you should look him.
He wrote a great autobiography.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
58
#94
View attachment 163779
...............................
One thing the biggest difference between the two companies is Winco is employee owed. So yes the employees at the top would be millionaires. That is where the 400 million dollar savings accounts comes from . Also the ownership (the employees) would be paid better ,under a employee owned company. They also use methods to keep the amount of employees to a minimum. Winco has vendors to stock shelves or they use temporary employees to stock shelves to cut costs . it's not wrong it is just a different business model.
Just my opinion the comparison is not all that equal .
Blessings Bill
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#95
View attachment 163779
...............................
Ricky,

If WinCo has 400 employee millionaires,
and being a millionaire would be "hoarding money",
and it's a sin to hoard money,
then...
isn't WinCo a desperately wicked place full of evil money hoarders?


You should be thankful you never worked at WinCo my brother.
 
R

renewed_hope

Guest
#96
I would much rather shop at WinCo...fresher food and much better customer service. Plus, I had a spiritual moment in the checkout line thanks to God using a guy standing behind me :)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#97
My answer was supposed to be about RZs feelings about the topic and his unexpected experience about trying to help others . I did not intend for I to be about you. I apologize if it came off that way . I was trying to relate how folks on both sides of the debate of should not give up in trying to help . Hopefully both groups can meet in a place where we can all agree . Granted we may all be far apart at the moment,Yet with God all things are possible. Again please accept my apology . I was not intending to disparage you or your point of view. I am trying to encourage all in Christ trying to help those who are in need, to come together.
Blessings
Bill
Oh, I didn't think your question was about me at all. It was a genuine question and a good one. But then you thanked Ricky for answering it, when he never did. All he did was spend quite a few paragraphs "letting you [me] pass." As in letting me pass for my sheer stupidity of not knowing that this was a setup from the beginning and no need to answer unless you had the telepathic knowledge that he was setting up whoever.

He didn't care who answered or who said what except those precious unnamed few who got that he was out to scold them through this new post. (At least, now I know why he ignored everyone.)

I was just surprised you thanked him for answering you, when he never did.
:(
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#98
I would assume that those who horde wealth would be for hording wealth and those who work like dogs to make poverty-level pay would be against it. Yet I am sadly finding that to be not true. And I guess that was the data I was seeking here. Is it just the rich that approves of hoarding wealth or is it across the spectrum? People like Lynn are proving that it's across the spectrum.

*

As I stated before here, my wife and I do all we can to spread our wealth to those less fortunate than we are. Yet I am finding out via the likes of Lynn et al that the less fortunate don't want our help. Amazing. They'll fight till they're under a bridge for their right to be treated like slaves. And slap me in the face for having the audacity to think they ought to be treated better, that we ought to treat each other as Jesus clearly instructed us to.

I can only imagine Jesus teaching today. Telling the crowd about the kingdom of heaven, a rich man comes up to Him and says Master what must I do the inherit the kingdom of God? Jesus tells him 'sell all you have and support the poor'. The rich kid says 'hey, I invested and earned that money, I don't have to share it with anybody!'. Then as Jesus is about to answer, the impoverished in the crowd chant out 'yeah leave the rich man alone! If he doesn't want to pay a fair day's wages for a fair day's labor he doesn't have to, that's his right!' I'm betting that, like me, Jesus would be dumbfounded at what He's hearing.

I'm not sure what to do now. We don't want a big bank account, as I said every dollar we have in the bank here is one we've not invested in heaven with God. But if those less fortunate really don't want or appreciate what we are trying to do for them with it, why should we continue? Repeating what I said earlier, we don't use automated cash registers because we want cashiers to keep their jobs. We spend every penny we take in because spending and consumerism is the only hope the poor and working poor have of keeping what little they have now. If someone with a legitimate need asks for help, we will do what we can to help them. But hey, if you people are not gong to appreciate it and are going to very wrongly accuse us of grubbing money, then I guess we're going to stop helping others with it and start hording it as is evidently our right.

I mean, Lynn, if you're going to sentence me with the time, then I might as well do the crime, right?
You already have done the crime. You're so full of you that you never listened to what the poor were telling you. You were so full of you, it didn't matter to you that Tourist is in dire straits, or some minor thing like Sassylady has kids and some mighty big bills that need to be paid. You are so full of you that you assumed the poor were poor because they work for minimum wages. You are so full of you you never bothered asking the obvious question if you were even EVER interested in "the poor" -- "What could they use help with?"

So, don't worry. You've got your self-righteousness glowing and steaming at critical rates. Why bother what one person thinks about all this hooey? You don't care about me anyway -- or anyone else except those members of the secret order of "Yanked you in here from another thread so I can browbeat you into my self-righteous rants posing as a poll."
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
58
#99
Oh, I didn't think your question was about me at all. It was a genuine question and a good one. But then you thanked Ricky for answering it, when he never did. All he did was spend quite a few paragraphs "letting you [me] pass." As in letting me pass for my sheer stupidity of not knowing that this was a setup from the beginning and no need to answer unless you had the telepathic knowledge that he was setting up whoever.

He didn't care who answered or who said what except those precious unnamed few who got that he was out to scold them through this new post. (At least, now I know why he ignored everyone.)

I was just surprised you thanked him for answering you, when he never did.
:(
You are correct that our brother in Christ did not directly answer the question. I only thanked him for his response though. I just wanted to know where he was coming from . I ask questions in a thread to find out more about why some people think the way they do . Hoping one question will lead to another and thru that conversation I could find out where he is coming from. Brother RZ in his response placed his whole reason for his stand and shared his disappointment in his findings. He did not answer the question but he explained the why about his opinions. That was as I said above is why I asked the questions . So he did satisfy my curiosity without a long drawn out conversation. I again apologize if I pulled you in to this Sister it was never my intention. I am truly sorry .
I am looking for clarity. Once we have a clear view of each other's opinion minus the fog we can move forward. I don't agree with his approach but I do share his desire to help others . He is a brother in Christ with a big heart.
Blesdings
Bill