he would rather die than live without us… A little way out there don't you think?
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he would rather die than live without us… A little way out there don't you think?
While I agree in the fact that the option is open unto all a far as Salvation goes....Jesus did say to the Pharisees that where he was going they would not be allowed to goHAH
Acts 4:12..“‘Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
"The message here seems clear and unambiguous. Peter asserts to the assembled Sanhedrin that Christ is the sole means of salvation appointed by God. Such a claim points to the exclusivity of Christ and a demarcation of communal identity based on whether or not one believes in and confesses this exclusivity of Christ."
"A faith that preaches an exclusively defined way to salvation is called to reach every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. In short, our exclusive claims about Christ call us to be inclusive, inviting nonbelievers to enter our fellowship and become fellow believers. Is it possible that we living in a paradox in which to be inclusive, we must first be exclusive?"
(2011 Conference of the Evangelical Theological Society)
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Jesus Died for the Whole World......Jesus is the Savior of the Whole World......
Only if the inhabitants of the World accept Him as their Savior (exclusively)
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I wasn't ever planning of hitting the teachers for help. I've shown the fallacy on my own.
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If he died for the whole world,why does he not get the whole world? Was something mixed up and he could.Was he not perfect enough to pull it off?
In my opinion, Satan has had a hand in the numbers that did not take, have not taken and will not take the free gift of Salvation, Jesus Christ offers...
Example; During the 1000 year (millennium) Satan is 'tied up' (so-to-speak) in order not to tempt any person to sin during this time and we know through scripture that only gentiles will die during this time period (if there are any---any takers out there???).
But later scriptures tells us Satan is released and finds enough people(Gentiles) throughout the nations that are waiting in the Wings' for him to lead them in battle against the city of Jerusalem and God. Of course we know what is going to happen with 100% accuracy through Biblical prophecy.
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So Satan won? He trumped God's hand? God isn't as omnipotent as reported? God willed it, and yet did not get his will? He tried, but failed?
Did Not get His will????????
I would not charge it to His Will but rather the 'free will' of mankind...They are the ones that lose. He loves us all and gives us a FREE Gift of Salvation. All we have to do is accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior and believe in His Gospel that he Died, was buried and was resurrected according to the scriptures.
Free Will of mankind means a lot yet many people take it for granite..
Merry Christmas Depleted..... hope this season brings Love and Joy to you and all your family.
It some time but I do try to answer all those that ask me a question.
I am not sure who you mean as "Babes" and I am not really sure about what "Our(we) obligation to them" is.
I will assume (at some risk for you and me...lol) that you are talking about those that believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. As you say, should it go wrong, what is going to happen to the mindset of all those people who will feel left OUT........(hope this is right)
Don't worry,,,, It is not wrong and they will not be left behind if their heart belongs to Jesus and His Gospel. i wish you would get on board if you are not already.......it is a Free Will Thing...lol...................
I do completely my friend. it is absolutely astounding to me How we Have 4 books in the Bible entitled " the gospel according to.." and because Jesus doctrine isnt " acceptable because of this root of the grace distortion, i see this
romans 1:28-31 "Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
and this 2 timothy 3:1-9 "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was."
a direct result of this
timothy 2:1-4 "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who WILL JUDGE the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths"
People have turned from the truth long ago and the results will only get worse and worse as the word says it will. I am so thankful when I stand Before The Lord, I will have accepted all the warnings that so many simply dont find worthy of thier acceptance. its crazy How the bible teaches that God is SAVING us through His word, and so many see that as God against us tossing people into Hell because He feels Like it. i think thats one of the things this kind of grace results in " to stand before Jesus and then have to tell Him why His word wasnt acceoptable, only His suffering.....sad really but free will was ordained from the start
IMO, PEOPLE DON'T CARE how close hypergrace is to Universalism. I guess that proves we ARE that close to the Tribulation.
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Then Free Will trumps God's hand? i.e. Man's "Free Will" trumps God's will? He wants to, but he can't. We're too strong.
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Happy Christmas to you too.
And, no. I don't think bad theology stops God either. But I wasted quite a bit of time with God and bad theology, so now I struggle with how to dump the hooey I learned.
Lots of people leave God because of bad teaching. Were they God's in the first place? Unknown until the end, but I'm not good at sitting back while I see people falling for bad theology.
God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth...but God will not save all men...God is constrained by his word, very nature and character.....it is not necessarily that he CANNOT do something, but rather that he is bound by HIS WORD which is tied to his righteous, unchanging nature and character...
I am the Lord thy God, I change not..........
Just sayin
Perhaps the real issue is that there are not many that agree with the premise of the OP.
One could show a website that says that Pentecostal pastors commit adultery on their spouses. Just google this and you will find many websites that say this very thing.
Therefore being a Pentecostal pastor means you commit adultery on your spouse. Don't you see now how closely related of being a Pentecostal pastor and committing adultery is so closely linked with each other?
It's completely a bunch of foolishness and the real reason one would want to say that Pentecostal pastors commit adultery is because they don't agree with some Pentecostal beliefs and so the need to disparage them as a group. It's the flesh in manifestation.
One could show a website that says that Pentecostal pastors commit adultery on their spouses. Just google this and you will find many websites that say this very thing.
Therefore being a Pentecostal pastor means you commit adultery on your spouse. Don't you see now how closely related of being a Pentecostal pastor and committing adultery is so closely linked with each other?
It's completely a bunch of foolishness and the real reason one would want to say that Pentecostal pastors commit adultery is because they don't agree with some Pentecostal beliefs and so the need to disparage them as a group. It's the flesh in manifestation.
i think we ought to read closer what He actually says to them in John 8:
Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.
(John 8:43)
(John 8:43)
You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father.
(John 8:44)
He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.
(John 8:47)
i'm not seeing Jesus say that they made a "choice" anywhere. i'm not seeing the basis for interjecting that word into this text anywhere except in humanity's own vanity. in fact, what i'm reading instead is that they are doing the things that are their nature to do - when nature is not a thing that people "choose" to have. for another example:
I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.
(John 8:38)
(John 8:38)
in fact, i'm even seeing Jesus say that He Himself didn't make a "choice" to come and redeem God's people:
If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
(John 8:42)
(John 8:42)
is that why you didn't actually quote much of John 8?
I guess I could have quoted the rest of the chapter... or even the whole book. How far did you feel I should have kept on quoting?
like, what do you do when you come to something like this:
i can't make it say "you don't believe because you freely choose not to" -- it's not what it says.
i'm not trying to "make" Jesus say one thing or another - you know that, bro - i never heard of Calvin or Arminius before i started reading the arguments here on this website - and i keep thinking how strange it is that so many of us feel very strongly that they made a conscious choice to believe from the very onset of faith arising in their hearts. not that we haven't "chosen" somehow to reject doubts, but that belief itself originated with our own decision-making. it's strange because we don't really talk about other "facts" this way -- we don't say, "i choose to believe the sky is blue" or "i choose not to believe that today is saturday" or "i choose to believe 2 + 2 = 4, while the other fellow is free to choose to believe 2 + 2 = a scoop of apricot ice cream, and what 2 + 2 turns out to be for either of us depends on what we each decided" that's not how we talk about ordinary truth at all. 2 + 2 is 4, and some people get the answer wrong, and if they've been given every reasonable tutelage and opportunity to answer that correctly, but they still don't get it, we start talking about there being something physically wrong with their brains. as though they have a nature that for whatever reason cannot comprehend math.
see any difference there?
but Jesus literally told unbelieving Pharisees that they literally could not believe because of their nature. not because it was wholly up to them and they had chosen not to - because they were unable to make any such choice. isn't that what the message is to believe? that we cannot reach up to God, so we must believe that He has reached down to us? don't we confess that we need to be fundamentally changed, and that He alone is able to save? it seems to me that if we are ever able to hear that, it is because He has first opened our ears.
But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
(John 10:26)
(John 10:26)
?
i can't make it say "you don't believe because you freely choose not to" -- it's not what it says.
i'm not trying to "make" Jesus say one thing or another - you know that, bro - i never heard of Calvin or Arminius before i started reading the arguments here on this website - and i keep thinking how strange it is that so many of us feel very strongly that they made a conscious choice to believe from the very onset of faith arising in their hearts. not that we haven't "chosen" somehow to reject doubts, but that belief itself originated with our own decision-making. it's strange because we don't really talk about other "facts" this way -- we don't say, "i choose to believe the sky is blue" or "i choose not to believe that today is saturday" or "i choose to believe 2 + 2 = 4, while the other fellow is free to choose to believe 2 + 2 = a scoop of apricot ice cream, and what 2 + 2 turns out to be for either of us depends on what we each decided" that's not how we talk about ordinary truth at all. 2 + 2 is 4, and some people get the answer wrong, and if they've been given every reasonable tutelage and opportunity to answer that correctly, but they still don't get it, we start talking about there being something physically wrong with their brains. as though they have a nature that for whatever reason cannot comprehend math.
see any difference there?
but Jesus literally told unbelieving Pharisees that they literally could not believe because of their nature. not because it was wholly up to them and they had chosen not to - because they were unable to make any such choice. isn't that what the message is to believe? that we cannot reach up to God, so we must believe that He has reached down to us? don't we confess that we need to be fundamentally changed, and that He alone is able to save? it seems to me that if we are ever able to hear that, it is because He has first opened our ears.