To all the post trib and no trib believers.

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GaryA

Guest
#141
#141
pottersclay said:
L

Lol Chinese finger puzzle love it bro which shows what were up against.
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What you are "up against" is the truth.

( You just don't realize it yet. )


pottersclay said:
Chinese finger puzzle is just that "a puzzle" but since you can't make or figure the pieces out you call it a lie. Thank you for sharing.
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I think you misunderstood the way my illustration was intended...

I was saying that pre-trib rapture adherents were "caught in the puzzle", not realizing how to become free of it...


"The truth has set me free..."

It is not 'fuzzy' in the slightest -- it is very clear - what the scriptures actually say.

I am 100% completely free of it -- I know how it works -- I know how it snares its victims -- I know how to become free of it.

( "been there and done that" )

It is somewhat like The Matrix -- it has you, and you do not even know it.

Before you can become free of it, you have to want to become free of it.

You first have to imagine that you just might could possibly be wrong...

:)
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#142
#142
samuel23 said:
It is a mystery that I admit I do not understand. People who I am convinced know the Lord(only God really knows) and yet they seem to be totally blind to the fact that Jesus Christ Himself said that He would return after the tribulation to gather the church.
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His second return is to end the tribulation, he will come as a "thief in the night " to take his bride out of harms way before it begins.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#143
#143
GaryA said:
What you are "up against" is the truth.

( You just don't realize it yet. )



I think you misunderstood the way my illustration was intended...

I was saying that pre-trib rapture adherents were "caught in the puzzle", not realizing how to become free of it...


"The truth has set me free..."

It is not 'fuzzy' in the slightest -- it is very clear - what the scriptures actually say.

I am 100% completely free of it -- I know how it works -- I know how it snares its victims -- I know how to become free of it.

( "been there and done that" )

It is somewhat like The Matrix -- it has you, and you do not even know it.

Before you can become free of it, you have to want to become free of it.

You first have to imagine that you just might could possibly be wrong...

:)
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Well my suggestion would be to first stop taking cheap shots at the people you disagree with. It solves nothing. In fact it does more harm than you realise. That's why so many avoid threads such as these.
Our stance is quite clear. We believe our Lord will rapture (snatch away) his church before the great tribulation.
This is not considered his second coming but it is founded in scripture on a promise made by him.
Furthermore scripture says we are not to suffer the wrath which is to come.
As your side has suggested that the preaching of this great hope is demonic as it will lead people away from the Lord. I for one fail to see that.
As I posted earlier there are 2 kinds of scripture pointing to the same event (The day of the lord) in which one presents signs and wonders as others presents a sudden happening. Which indicates 2 events taking place.
The rapture has nothing to do with Israel, the second coming has nothing to do with the church.

We do all agree that the finished work Jesus did by way of the cross is sufficient to save anyone to the uttermost
That Christ suffered God's wrath for us all. Then pray tell why we should suffer God's wrath. Give scripture to open our eyes to this.
Why does God break his promise to Abraham and judge the righteous with the unrightous in this case? Give scripture on that.
 
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Chris2552

Member
#144
Nov 15, 2016
48
2
8
#144
I would like to believe in pre-trib rapture, but believing in it can lead to bad things, if it doesn't happen that way and we are still here. Then what? My faith in God is going to sway when i need it the most, am i going to turn to God and ask why am i still here? Maybe i was never saved in the first place, will doubt set in?

Above all pre, post, mid rapture, put your faith in God, rapture or no rapture. If we are still here, its for a reason. We are not going to get through it without God.
 
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Chris2552

Member
#145
Nov 15, 2016
48
2
8
#145
Just out of curiosity i anyone else scared of the tribulation? There is alot of uncertainty to it, its going to be a very hard time, words can't describe how hard it is going to be.

Even the elect is going to be deceived.

As for me, i am a weak person, i know there is no way im going to get through it without God's help.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#146
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#146
Hello Chris2552,

I would like to believe in pre-trib rapture, but believing in it can lead to bad things, if it doesn't happen that way and we are still here.
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If I may, our faith should not be based on when the Lord gathers the church. If (and I say "if" for the sake of your concern) the gathering did not happen prior to the tribulation period, our faith in Christ should remain the same. In fact, if we were here to see those prophetic events that are to take place during the tribulation, if anything it should strengthen ones faith, as we would be seeing God's prophecy being fulfilled. It would then just be a matter of praying for God to give us strength to go through it and to enable us to keep the testimony of Christ and the word of God even unto death. But in the case that a pre-trib gathering of the church did not take place, then a believer should continue in the same faith that he had previous to that scenario.

In between right now and the time that Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place. Regarding these, scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath.

Paul referred to our being gathered as "the blessed hope" and also said that we should comfort one another concerning the Lord's promise to gather us. It would only be a blessed hope and a comfort, if believers were gathered prior to God's wrath, not after.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#147
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#147
Chris2552 said:
Just out of curiosity i anyone else scared of the tribulation? There is alot of uncertainty to it, its going to be a very hard time, words can't describe how hard it is going to be.

Even the elect is going to be deceived.

As for me, i am a weak person, i know there is no way im going to get through it without God's help.
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Hi Chist2552,

If you are trusting in the word of God, believers in Christ are not appointed to go through that time of wrath. For that reason and because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on my behalf, I am not worried in the slightest and that because I know that he will gather the church prior to that first seal being opened.

Even the elect is going to be deceived.
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Just FYI, you misquoted the above: It actually reads as follows:

"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.[/quote]

In other words, these false messiahs and false prophets and specifically thee coming false messiah and thee false prophet, will be performing miracles, signs and wonders that will be so convincing that it would deceive God's chosen if that were possible. The gist is that even though those signs will be deceiving, it won't deceive God's elect.

 
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Chris2552

Member
#148
Nov 15, 2016
48
2
8
#148
Thanks for pointing that out Ahwatukee about the elect, and the tribulation. God bless you
 
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samuel23

Banned
#149
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#149
As one can see, the Antichrist is not just some man who will be influenced by Satan. The real Antichrist is a mighty spirit being that God has kept imprisoned. Just my opinion here, but I think maybe the real Antichrist is "the anointed cherub that covers" that is mentioned in Ezekiel 28:14-19. I realize that many folks take this place in scripture to mean Satan, however no where in the bible is Satan ever said to be a cherub. I believe that this cherub is the most powerful angel to fall away to Satan, he is so powerful that God has imprisoned him, however at the end of the age he will be released and join forces with Satan.
 
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bluto

Senior Member
#150
Aug 4, 2016
2,101
531
113
#150
Ahwatukee said:
Hi Chist2552,

If you are trusting in the word of God, believers in Christ are not appointed to go through that time of wrath. For that reason and because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on my behalf, I am not worried in the slightest and that because I know that he will gather the church prior to that first seal being opened.



Just FYI, you misquoted the above: It actually reads as follows:

"For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Click to expand...


In other words, these false messiahs and false prophets and specifically thee coming false messiah and thee false prophet, will be performing miracles, signs and wonders that will be so convincing that it would deceive God's chosen if that were possible. The gist is that even though those signs will be deceiving, it won't deceive God's elect.

[/QUOTE]

Question ahwatukee regarding your last paragraph? Did you write it with the "assumption" that your will have already been raptured? I ask because if God's elect won't be deceived then obviously we are still here during the tribulation? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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samuel23

Banned
#151
Dec 2, 2016
1,652
26
0
#151
People talk about the "elect" not being deceived. At the present moment in church history, it is an easy estimate that over 95% of born again, Spirit in dwelt believers, are totally deceived about the return of Christ to gather the church. I believe I could spend a solid month,24 hours a day, on Christian radio and TV, and not hear a single teaching on the true post-trib gathering of the church that Jesus gave the apostles to give to the church. I can think of only one Post-trib teacher, Erving Baxter, for the most part, those who have found the pre-trib rapture to be a false and a dangerous teaching are people like myself, who have no radio,TV, or books, from which to proclaim it. We post-trib folks are like Elijah(one man) standing against all the many prophets of Baal. However, we know that Jesus said He would return post-trib and that Paul backed Him up,so we will never back down.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#152
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,400
113
#152
samuel23 said:
People talk about the "elect" not being deceived. At the present moment in church history, it is an easy estimate that over 95% of born again, Spirit in dwelt believers, are totally deceived about the return of Christ to gather the church. I believe I could spend a solid month,24 hours a day, on Christian radio and TV, and not hear a single teaching on the true post-trib gathering of the church that Jesus gave the apostles to give to the church. I can think of only one Post-trib teacher, Erving Baxter, for the most part, those who have found the pre-trib rapture to be a false and a dangerous teaching are people like myself, who have no radio,TV, or books, from which to proclaim it. We post-trib folks are like Elijah(one man) standing against all the many prophets of Baal. However, we know that Jesus said He would return post-trib and that Paul backed Him up,so we will never back down.
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I know and agree......going to be many believers surprised one day soon......and many so called believers will fall away when they "think" that they have missed the proverbial boat.....so glad I was set free from a teaching that is found no where in scripture!
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#153
#153
Ever occur to anyone how they will explain the rapture away?
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#154
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
#154
pottersclay said:
Ever occur to anyone how they will explain the rapture away?
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Good day!

I'm sure that once the gathering of the church takes place, that the antichrist will have some unfavorable explanation of what happened. I also believe that when the church is gathered, it will be one of the factors in producing the great tribulation saints, those who will realize what has happened and will then know what they must go through in order to be saved.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#155
#155
Well let's just say we meet you half way......at 200,000 feet if you decide you don't believe you can return agreed...lol
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#156
#156
I don't preach the rapture as a salvation issue ....it's not ...I preach Christ crucified. So my story ends with the blessed hope.
Yours on the other hand seems to leave more wiggle room. I mean if a person thinks about it why live for Christ now when we can wait till the anti Christ kills us then we are saved. No mark no worries.....works for me.
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#157
#157
Sometimes it what's not being said that is the answer.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#158
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,400
113
#158
pottersclay said:
Ever occur to anyone how they will explain the rapture away?
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They won't be able to....

EVERY EYE shall see him come with clouds and much power...just like lightning cracks in the east and shines unto the west...it will be visible to ALL who dwell on the earth contrary to the pre-trib circus......

AFTER the events of the great tribulation.............!
 
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pottersclay

Guest
#159
#159
dcontroversal said:
They won't be able to....

EVERY EYE shall see him come with clouds and much power...just like lightning cracks in the east and shines unto the west...it will be visible to ALL who dwell on the earth contrary to the pre-trib circus......

AFTER the events of the great tribulation.............!
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Oh I agree with you totally on that....a that's the second coming. How does all see the thief in the night?
What warning does a thief give?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#160
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,400
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#160
pottersclay said:
Oh I agree with you totally on that....a that's the second coming. How does all see the thief in the night?
What warning does a thief give?
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It is a s a thief because most do not expect it.....most believers will think they have missed it because of the great tribulation that must be endured.......
 
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