Mouldy Mary ?
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She was made new, correct?
Why do we go backwards to uncover her sins?
Should we also uncover each others own sins that have been forgiven?
That's not the work of a "priestly people" before GOD.
We are supposed to provide/point to THE COVERING.
And once covered, do we have a right to remove THE COVERING and expose one's nakedness?
Why do we go backwards to uncover her sins?
Should we also uncover each others own sins that have been forgiven?
That's not the work of a "priestly people" before GOD.
We are supposed to provide/point to THE COVERING.
And once covered, do we have a right to remove THE COVERING and expose one's nakedness?
Mold grows on dead stagnant stuff. Mary is dead, stagnant if you will. Mary WAS honored while she was still ALIVE. But she is dead now, has been for many millennia. She is only bones and ashes, not a disembodied spirit guiding us in any way. Catholics honor Mary by worshipping her and bowing down to her. WE revere her as Jesus' mother, but that is all.
Either you have been deceived Talishi or your just a liar for the Catholic Church. Do you really believe there is nothing wrong with bowing down to a statue of Mary while Praying to the statue? I believe you are trying to hide the Truth that you Catholics do worship Mary as a God! So why are you here? Why are you doing the will of the Catholic Church, maybe hoping for a reward for deceiving us?
I have no time for Catholics who lie and deceive people.
I have no time for Catholics who lie and deceive people.
Hello Mike
I think you need to read what she has posted. She may contradict what you believe about Catholics, concerning the catholic doctrine for the reverence of Mary . She is definitely not Catholic. Her statement here
While I no longer practice the Catholic faith, I can state in all truth that the center of Catholic devotion is Jesus Christ, not Mary, and no Catholic worships a created thing, although they do bow down to them, contrary to the Code of Moshe.
She says outright that they are breaking the Ten Commandments. By bowing to statues violating the law of Moshe AKA Moses.
That statement alone would place her at odds with the church and place her out of communion. Making her a heretic.
In fact if you read the posts she is responding to it is quight obvious that she is not complementing Catholics at all .
Blesdings
Bill
I think you need to read what she has posted. She may contradict what you believe about Catholics, concerning the catholic doctrine for the reverence of Mary . She is definitely not Catholic. Her statement here
While I no longer practice the Catholic faith, I can state in all truth that the center of Catholic devotion is Jesus Christ, not Mary, and no Catholic worships a created thing, although they do bow down to them, contrary to the Code of Moshe.
She says outright that they are breaking the Ten Commandments. By bowing to statues violating the law of Moshe AKA Moses.
That statement alone would place her at odds with the church and place her out of communion. Making her a heretic.
In fact if you read the posts she is responding to it is quight obvious that she is not complementing Catholics at all .
Blesdings
Bill
Thank you. Another problem I have with the Catholic Church is the so-called infallibility of the Pope, or the dogma that the Pope is protected from teaching error. There is a Papal Bull called Unam Sanctam that declares that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. And there is a document out of Vatican II that declares that there is the possibility of salvation outside of the Catholic Church for Protestants. And lately, Pope Francis even says Atheists might be good to go, if they are charitable folk. So, Rome, pick one of these three things and get back to us, but don't tell us the Pope cannot teach error.
G
Ok, some people here seem to be determined to misquote the Catholic faith, be it by accident or on purpose. . . hear me out here.
Just because Mary called God her 'Saviour' doesn't mean that she was 'saved' in the same context as everyone else. An analogy to help you - you're going for a walk, and there's a big ditch up ahead, but you don't see it. If you fall in the ditch and someone pulls you out, then that person has 'saved' you from the ditch. However, if that same person warns you about the ditch before you even fall in, they have still 'saved' you from the ditch, they just did it in a slightly different manner. Now, presuming that the ditch represents sin, we all fall into the ditch before we are pulled out by Jesus. However, Mary was 'saved' from sin before she could fall into it. Clear as mud?
But what about all the scripture verses that condemn the entire world to sin? 1 John 1:8 says "If we [man] say 'We are without sin', we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." In other words, humanity is made up of only sinners. However, Jesus was fully human, there is no disputing that, yet He was without sin. He was an exception to the rule, and Mary was as well. We can see as much because of the greeting from the angel Gabriel.
Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). This was obviously not the standard greeting, as Mary was "greatly troubled at what was said, and pondered what sort of greeting this might be" (Luke 1:29). God had replaced her name with 'full of grace'. Now, every time a person's name is changed in the Bible, it affirms a permanent change within that character (Abraham, Sarah, Israel, etc.). With Mary, God was 'sealing the deal' on His great plan for Mary.
The Greek word that Gabriel used to describe Mary literally translates as "she who has been graced". The word 'graced' in the tense that it is used in, refers to a past action that will continue to exist in a future time. It means that an action has been completed, which has then resulted in a present state of being. Mary was always 'full of grace', and always will be. This isn't a 'Catholic' interpretation of this verse; this is systematical translation from Greek to English, nothing more and nothing less. It's a little confusing, but hopefully you understand what I'm saying.
Mary is sometimes referred to as the "New Eve" (see https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/6-biblical-reasons-mary-new-eve-deacon-mike-chesley if you want an explanation). God has made several Covenants with His people throughout the duration of the Bible, and in every instance, the "New Covenant" has always been more perfect, more pure than the "Old Covenant". Applying this knowledge to Mary's situation, it is impossible for Mary to be created in sin, because Eve was created without sin. Yes, Eve did sin, but she was not born into the world with the stain of Original Sin on her soul. So how is it that Mary, the New Eve, who is meant to be far more perfect and far more pure in her existence than the one before her, could be created in sin? It just doesn't make sense.
Also, just to clarify - Catholics do not worship Mary. We recognize her state of grace, and the position given to her by God as the mother of Jesus. One of the most common Catholic prayers, the Hail Mary, is not a prayer to Mary, but a plea asking Mary to pray for us, to intercede on our behalf.
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death."
Nowhere in that prayer are we praying to Mary; we are asking Mary to pray for us, because we sinners need as much help as we can get.
I hope some of you can draw some conclusions from this. I understand that your beliefs may not change overnight, but know that we are all called to love one another, and it is not very loving to make blind accusations against the Catholic faith. Just because you don't know the answer doesn't make the accusation justified.
There are several people here that are saying downright nasty things about the Catholic faith, and all they are doing is spreading needless hate. Do not condemn another person's beliefs without first making an effort to understand them. Every single comment I have read thus far bashing Catholics seems to be a conclusion that has been jumped to, an assessment that has been made without full knowledge or consideration of the facts. The Catholic faith, although difficult, is not sacrilegious, born from the devil, or the cesspool full of filth that many people seem convinced to make it out to be. You don't have to agree with everything it teaches, but please don't go around spreading unwarranted hate just because you disagree. I'm fairly certain that whatever faith you devote your life to doesn't condone malicious words.
Just because Mary called God her 'Saviour' doesn't mean that she was 'saved' in the same context as everyone else. An analogy to help you - you're going for a walk, and there's a big ditch up ahead, but you don't see it. If you fall in the ditch and someone pulls you out, then that person has 'saved' you from the ditch. However, if that same person warns you about the ditch before you even fall in, they have still 'saved' you from the ditch, they just did it in a slightly different manner. Now, presuming that the ditch represents sin, we all fall into the ditch before we are pulled out by Jesus. However, Mary was 'saved' from sin before she could fall into it. Clear as mud?
But what about all the scripture verses that condemn the entire world to sin? 1 John 1:8 says "If we [man] say 'We are without sin', we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." In other words, humanity is made up of only sinners. However, Jesus was fully human, there is no disputing that, yet He was without sin. He was an exception to the rule, and Mary was as well. We can see as much because of the greeting from the angel Gabriel.
Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). This was obviously not the standard greeting, as Mary was "greatly troubled at what was said, and pondered what sort of greeting this might be" (Luke 1:29). God had replaced her name with 'full of grace'. Now, every time a person's name is changed in the Bible, it affirms a permanent change within that character (Abraham, Sarah, Israel, etc.). With Mary, God was 'sealing the deal' on His great plan for Mary.
The Greek word that Gabriel used to describe Mary literally translates as "she who has been graced". The word 'graced' in the tense that it is used in, refers to a past action that will continue to exist in a future time. It means that an action has been completed, which has then resulted in a present state of being. Mary was always 'full of grace', and always will be. This isn't a 'Catholic' interpretation of this verse; this is systematical translation from Greek to English, nothing more and nothing less. It's a little confusing, but hopefully you understand what I'm saying.
Mary is sometimes referred to as the "New Eve" (see https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/6-biblical-reasons-mary-new-eve-deacon-mike-chesley if you want an explanation). God has made several Covenants with His people throughout the duration of the Bible, and in every instance, the "New Covenant" has always been more perfect, more pure than the "Old Covenant". Applying this knowledge to Mary's situation, it is impossible for Mary to be created in sin, because Eve was created without sin. Yes, Eve did sin, but she was not born into the world with the stain of Original Sin on her soul. So how is it that Mary, the New Eve, who is meant to be far more perfect and far more pure in her existence than the one before her, could be created in sin? It just doesn't make sense.
Also, just to clarify - Catholics do not worship Mary. We recognize her state of grace, and the position given to her by God as the mother of Jesus. One of the most common Catholic prayers, the Hail Mary, is not a prayer to Mary, but a plea asking Mary to pray for us, to intercede on our behalf.
"Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the Fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death."
Nowhere in that prayer are we praying to Mary; we are asking Mary to pray for us, because we sinners need as much help as we can get.
I hope some of you can draw some conclusions from this. I understand that your beliefs may not change overnight, but know that we are all called to love one another, and it is not very loving to make blind accusations against the Catholic faith. Just because you don't know the answer doesn't make the accusation justified.
There are several people here that are saying downright nasty things about the Catholic faith, and all they are doing is spreading needless hate. Do not condemn another person's beliefs without first making an effort to understand them. Every single comment I have read thus far bashing Catholics seems to be a conclusion that has been jumped to, an assessment that has been made without full knowledge or consideration of the facts. The Catholic faith, although difficult, is not sacrilegious, born from the devil, or the cesspool full of filth that many people seem convinced to make it out to be. You don't have to agree with everything it teaches, but please don't go around spreading unwarranted hate just because you disagree. I'm fairly certain that whatever faith you devote your life to doesn't condone malicious words.
U
So your assessment is that every single person who speaks against the Catholic church is uninformed? And that speaking against the Catholic church equates to 'bashing'? Sounds like a typical catholic response.
Keep in mind this site is Christian, not Catholic. Even the sites official stance is that Catholic is not the same as Christian.
Keep in mind this site is Christian, not Catholic. Even the sites official stance is that Catholic is not the same as Christian.
G
No, I didn't mean to insinuate that every person that isn't a Catholic doesn't understand how the Catholic faith works. I was trying to say that there are many comments in this thread that make general or specific statements about the Catholic faith that are unfounded, unwarranted, or otherwise false.
And no, not everyone that speaks against the Catholic Church is 'bashing'. But when you use words in obviously hateful ways, it's nit conductive to conveying a Christian message. I don't mind if people have a problem with the Catholic faith, but it's really rude to make harsh judgements instead of asking questions about why things are they way they are.
And yes, Catholics do differ a fair bit from other Christians. But just because something is different doesn't mean you have to be intolerant of it. Besides, the whole premise of this thread is based around a Catholic principle, so Catholic opinions should be given just as much attention as any other.
And no, not everyone that speaks against the Catholic Church is 'bashing'. But when you use words in obviously hateful ways, it's nit conductive to conveying a Christian message. I don't mind if people have a problem with the Catholic faith, but it's really rude to make harsh judgements instead of asking questions about why things are they way they are.
And yes, Catholics do differ a fair bit from other Christians. But just because something is different doesn't mean you have to be intolerant of it. Besides, the whole premise of this thread is based around a Catholic principle, so Catholic opinions should be given just as much attention as any other.
So you are asking something of Mary, but you are not asking Mary?
I hope you realize you contradict yourself and make no sense.
All you have done is make excuses for the excessive focus on Mary.
Mary is completely incapable of interceding on anybody's behalf.
Pretending she can as you and the RCC do is to ignore the explicit
teaching of Scripture that says there is one mediator between God
and man. Pointing out the errors of Catholicism is not being malicious.
Hopefully it helps people understand how far from Scripture the popes
have led those who follow them, instead of following Jesus Christ.
If you take into consideration the fact that Jesus in no way whatsoever
elevated His mother above anyone else, you might then get some
perspective on how much Roman Catholicism elevates her way beyond
anything that is warranted by Scripture. Jesus called many people blessed
(see the beatitudes). He rebuked the woman who tried to tell Him that
His mother was blessed for having borne and suckled Him. Jesus told
her that anyone who did the will of His Father was His mother, and His
sister, and His brother. He denied that Mary was any better than anybody
else, while Catholicism claims she was sinless from conception (they are
forced by papal decree to accept that as true), had no other children
(perpetual virginity) despite the fact that two epistles in the Bible are
written by brothers of Jesus (Jude and James), not to mention the fact
that it would be a sin for her to withhold herself from her husband and
the fact that Scripture calls Jesus her firstborn Son and also plainly
states that she knew her husband after His birth (knowing someone
Biblically is a euphemism for having carnal knowledge of them which
is also a way of saying they had sexual intercourse as any husband and
wife would); they claim she never died apart from anything that is written
in Scripture, and was assumed bodily to heaven, again apart from anything
that was written in Scripture, and intercedes between man and God, despite
the clear Scriptural teaching that there is one mediator only, and it sure
ain't Mary. Their excessive adoration and veneration of Mary is perverse,
and directly contradicts Scripture in places to the point of blasphemy.
I hope you realize you contradict yourself and make no sense.
All you have done is make excuses for the excessive focus on Mary.
Mary is completely incapable of interceding on anybody's behalf.
Pretending she can as you and the RCC do is to ignore the explicit
teaching of Scripture that says there is one mediator between God
and man. Pointing out the errors of Catholicism is not being malicious.
Hopefully it helps people understand how far from Scripture the popes
have led those who follow them, instead of following Jesus Christ.
If you take into consideration the fact that Jesus in no way whatsoever
elevated His mother above anyone else, you might then get some
perspective on how much Roman Catholicism elevates her way beyond
anything that is warranted by Scripture. Jesus called many people blessed
(see the beatitudes). He rebuked the woman who tried to tell Him that
His mother was blessed for having borne and suckled Him. Jesus told
her that anyone who did the will of His Father was His mother, and His
sister, and His brother. He denied that Mary was any better than anybody
else, while Catholicism claims she was sinless from conception (they are
forced by papal decree to accept that as true), had no other children
(perpetual virginity) despite the fact that two epistles in the Bible are
written by brothers of Jesus (Jude and James), not to mention the fact
that it would be a sin for her to withhold herself from her husband and
the fact that Scripture calls Jesus her firstborn Son and also plainly
states that she knew her husband after His birth (knowing someone
Biblically is a euphemism for having carnal knowledge of them which
is also a way of saying they had sexual intercourse as any husband and
wife would); they claim she never died apart from anything that is written
in Scripture, and was assumed bodily to heaven, again apart from anything
that was written in Scripture, and intercedes between man and God, despite
the clear Scriptural teaching that there is one mediator only, and it sure
ain't Mary. Their excessive adoration and veneration of Mary is perverse,
and directly contradicts Scripture in places to the point of blasphemy.
Ok,stop stop stop.
If you're going to just contradict yourself over and over...
how can I not say something?
Your words:
"The Hail Mary is not a prayer to Mary, but a plea asking Mary to pray for us"
1. If you are ASKING MARY something... then MARY is the person you are talking to.
2. You cannot TALK TO MARY, and at the same time NOT BE TALKING TO MARY.
3. Talking to someone in Heaven, and asking them to do something for us, is what most of us call a "prayer".
4. You cannot be PRAYING TO MARY, and at the same time NOT BE PRAYING TO MARY.
I don't care if you want to be a Catholic,
but a contradiction is still a contradiction.
We can't all just talk in absurd self-refuting riddles...
we need to raise the bar.
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G
I see what you're trying to say, but I respectfully disagree. Yes, we are talking to Mary (also when did I say we don't talk to Mary? I don't remember that). Yes, we are asking something of Mary. But as for talking to someone in Heaven always being considered a prayer? I disagree with that. We are asking a service of someone, something that we do every day here on earth. I'm not asking Mary to help me pass my school exam, I'm asking Mary to pray to God that I pass my school exam, just like you would ask a friend to pray for you. I must admit I've never asked a non-Catholic about what counts as a prayer and what doesn't, but I've always believed (as do other Catholics so far as I know) that the only person you pray to is God. Talking to someone in Heaven is just like talking to someone that lives on your street, you just don't have them standing right in front of you. I suppose it might not come up much outside of the Catholic church, because not many other religions believe in asking saints/Mary/etc. to pray for them.
Mary and the saints can't hear you all if you pray at the same time. They are not omniscient and omnipresent. God is in front of you and hears loud and clear, what's inside your heart. Praying to Mary and the saints, for me is like thinking as if the opinion of Mary and the saints matter to God like they are on the same level of Holiness and that also looks like you are too afraid of God that you need back up as if they can do anything.