Continuationism or Cessationism

[Desdichado]

The doctrine of spiritual gifts is one of the things I am currently on the fence about. Men I admire greatly are arrayed on the side of both continuation of relevatory gifts and the cessation of them.

I see room for abuse of doctrines on both sides- on one extreme there is tendency for a cold reduction of the spiritual realm. An over-rationalization of the spiritual. On the other this crazed cacophony of baseless prophetic assertions and bizarre behavior.

Going by the text alone, I find myself being Cessationist one day and Continuationist the next to the point I suspect it's all dependent on how I brew my coffee in the morning.

So I'm leaving it to you, Christian Chat.

Where do you tend to fall- Cessation or Continuation?

Why?

Are there Biblical limitations you see that stop you from falling into the two extremes mentioned above?

 

[jennymae]

Some days calls for the former, some for the latter. I think it's heavily connected with our emotions rather than the rational part of our brain. Even so, the perpetual changing prevents us from falling into one of the ditches, thus the rational part is somehow in play too.

 

[Desdichado]

I also request that the straw man of "denial of the Holy Ghost" isn't thrown out for people to chew on. Most cessationists I know (and I love them to death), do not deny the role of the Holy Spirit. In fact they recognize a great role in His agency in the salvation of the lost and revealing truths expressed in and confirmed by Scripture.

I'm currently persuaded more towards continuationism in all honesty, but cessationist literature on the sheer power of the Holy Spirit is what got me there.

So don't be a jackanapes!

 

[Desdichado]

I hear ya, sister.

Some days calls for the former, some for the latter.

 

[88]

First--- their is a difference between the gift of prophecy & the office of the prophet...---- all may prophecy, but all are not prophets...

 

[jennymae]

I hear ya, sister.

Sorry, my phone is sometimes auto posting before I am done writing lol.

 

[Desdichado]

Would you mind giving me more of a birds eye view of this? Responding to the questions stated above would help a great deal.

 

[notuptome]

Continue in the gifts that continue and cease in the gifts that have ceased.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Desdichado]

Gonna need more than that, Roger.

Continue in the gifts that continue and cease in the gifts that have ceased.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[88]

All prophetic activity is subject to judgment by the Word of God----prophecy does not add to the Word of God...

 

[notuptome]

Gonna need more than that, Roger.

1 Cor 13:8 states that three gifts ceased. The rub is that one of them is highly desired and many will not tolerate the idea that God ended that gift.

God has richly endowed the church with all the gifts and gifted individuals needed to minister the word to comfort believers and to win the lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Desdichado]

Hmmm. That makes sense. Thank you!

1 Cor 13:8 states that three gifts ceased. The rub is that one of them is highly desired and many will not tolerate the idea that God ended that gift.

God has richly endowed the church with all the gifts and gifted individuals needed to minister the word to comfort believers and to win the lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Desdichado]

If someone claims a direct word of knowledge are they not claiming they've received a information from God equal to the authority and value of scripture?

All prophetic activity is subject to judgment by the Word of God----prophecy does not add to the Word of God...

 

[Depleted]

The doctrine of spiritual gifts is one of the things I am currently on the fence about. Men I admire greatly are arrayed on the side of both continuation of relevatory gifts and the cessation of them.

I see room for abuse of doctrines on both sides- on one extreme there is tendency for a cold reduction of the spiritual realm. An over-rationalization of the spiritual. On the other this crazed cacophony of baseless prophetic assertions and bizarre behavior.

Going by the text alone, I find myself being Cessationist one day and Continuationist the next to the point I suspect it's all dependent on how I brew my coffee in the morning.

So I'm leaving it to you, Christian Chat.

Where do you tend to fall- Cessation or Continuation?

Why?

Are there Biblical limitations you see that stop you from falling into the two extremes mentioned above?

I suspect we read the same kind of stuff on this subject -- mostly cessationism, huh? Yeah, well, okay. I see where they're coming from, and I disagree anyway... most of the way. I don't believe two offices continued -- apostle and prophet. But then that gets into offices as opposed to gifts. And I'm pretty sure we see eye-to-eye on why there aren't apostles anymore. (Yes, that was a play on words.)

The rest? Yeah, I know most reformed folks disagree with me, but they're still going. I know at least one minister who had to change his mind, because it happened right in front of him. (Some spoke in tongues, and someone in the back of the church recognized what was said and translated. The tongue-talkers had no idea what they were saying, but it was the guy-in-the-back's rarely-used tribal language.)

Hubby just read that one of the chief opponents to gifts (I think MacArthur, but hubby is napping, so I'm not asking lol), really does believe in the gifts, but he hates how they're being misused and abused today, so it's just easier for him to go against them.

Me? Personally, I have trouble with "angelic tongues." I don't get them, not entirely sure why do them, and can't do them, so it bothers me. It does bother me, but hubby is a tongue-talker like that, and I trust him, so he kind of keeps me in both camps. He, and a couple of tongue-talkers on this site.

But he's willing to not speak tongues in church to have the privilege of going to a church that teaches biblically, and the church we belong to doesn't hold it against him. They take the attitude that they aren't that kind of church, so if that bothers you, maybe joining isn't a good idea.

And the rest of the gifts? I've seen them all. (Prophecy as word of wisdom, not as telling the future.) That just kills the concept that they've ended for me.

 

[dcontroversal]

No one who believes in them can accurately explain the words cease, fail and vanish as applied in 1st Corinthians 13.....nor the use of the word CHILDISH......and PUTTING AWAY childish THINGS......they also dismiss NOW ABIDETH.........and the PRESENT CONTEXT of that statement........!

Just saying....!

 

[jb]

1 Cor 13:8 states that three gifts ceased...

For the cause of...
Roger

Absolute twaddle!

Acts 2v15-21,38,39 (with 1Cor 12v28, Eph 4v7-16) teaches that spiritual gifts and ministeries are set in the Church by God throughout the WHOLE of the age of Grace right up until the Second Coming of Christ!

NO Scripture refutes or contradicts Acts 2v15-21,38,39! (only you do roger)!

 

[zone]

The Ultimate Cessationism Resource

Cessationism - Cessationist - Spiritual Gifts - The Ultimate Cessationism Resource

 

[Dino246]

1 Cor 13:8 states that three gifts ceased.

My Bible says, "...will be done away" not "have been done away". Furthermore, the 'done away' part is contingent upon "when the perfect comes". Show me anything perfect in today's world which was not available when Paul wrote? The usual response is "the completed Bible". Well, that isn't what Paul wrote. It would be an closed issued if he did, but he didn't. If anyone wants to argue that knowledge has been done away, I would have to ask how they know that!

 

[Grandpa]

My Bible says, "...will be done away" not "have been done away". Furthermore, the 'done away' part is contingent upon "when the perfect comes". Show me anything perfect in today's world which was not available when Paul wrote? The usual response is "the completed Bible". Well, that isn't what Paul wrote. It would be an closed issued if he did, but he didn't. If anyone wants to argue that knowledge has been done away, I would have to ask how they know that!

That is the same issue with the statement "The Law is done away".

Well, no, its not. All those who have not come to Christ are still being brought to Him by it.

In the same way, a person who has been to Christ and is abiding in Christ doesn't need a prophet to tell them to repent and turn to Christ for the forgiveness of their sins. But for those who have not been to Christ, for those whom the Perfect has not yet Come, a prophecy for His Coming and perfecting them is warranted.

I'm pretty sure that is what he is getting at when he says when he was a child he thought as a child... etc. Kind of the same language as the schoolmaster to bring him to Christ... But when he comes to Christ he is no longer under a schoolmaster.


I suppose most people think that a prophet would forecast future events. But a prophet or prophecy can be for a person who does not yet know the Power of Christ, even though His Work is Finished...

 

[Grandpa]

I think the revelatory gifts are on going. Meaning that I think it is necessary to receive revelation of Who Christ is and What He does for us.

So, if a person is shown their salvation and how it works, that is a gift, a revelation of Christ.

Do I think there are Prophets now? Not really. Only people who tell you the finished work of Christ, which you could read about in the bible. So really, all Christians who have received revelation of Christ can 'prophecy' of His Work and what He does.

Do I think the Holy Spirit sometimes shows people, in advance, things that will shortly come to pass? Yes. I do think that. But I don't think the Holy Spirit picks the same person every time to show these things to. So one person isn't 'THE' prophet all the time. The Holy Spirit holds prophecy and can come through different people.


Can I give proof of any of this? Not really. I can only tell you of the way the Holy Spirit gave me revelation in the knowledge of Christ. And the revelation I received did not go against any of scripture. It made scripture make sense. To me...


2 Corinthians 3:14-16
[FONT=&quot]14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Ephesians 1:17-18
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,[/FONT]