Did Christ do enough to save us?

[PeterJens]

This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
No.

We have to
1. Repent of our sins
2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
3. Follow Jesus
4. Obey Jesus's commands
5. Dwell in Gods word
6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.

Jesus describes himself as the Shepherd.

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:11

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14

We are called to follow, to follow the road that leads to life.
If you are following, it takes effort and you are doing actual work.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30

A yoke is about being alongside another and taking their road and learning how to
walk it.

All of the above implies Christ has laid the way to salvation, but we have to walk it
to follow, to put effort in, to choose, to make decisions and fight the good fight.

So it is hard to believe people who say they know scripture, yet claim they
need do nothing and Christ has done it all, it is just resting and reaping.

This is just heresy.

 

[mailmandan]

Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

 

[Grace777x70]

Resting? What does it mean to enter into the rest of Christ? Did Christ actually do enough for us? Does this mean we do nothing?

I don't chafe at the term "our doing". We do participate in what God is doing in and through us.

What I would chafe at is the notion that we put "the doing" from ourselves by self-effort and not from the life of Christ in us. It's all a matter of where this "work originates" from - our flesh or from our inner man in Christ.

Outwardly they can look the same. I know that only God that looks on our heart can answer that question but it is subtle difference between works-based righteousness and faith-based righteousness.

Another term I use a lot that may throw some off is that I say we are to "rest" in the finished work of Christ. The word "rest" can bring the connotations that we do nothing which is not the truth. It's the exact opposite.

I won't speak for the others but as far as works go from a believer in Christ - here is what I believe when considering John Chapter 15 and the "works" of a believer.

Jesus is the Vine - we are the branches. The branch bears fruit..it does not produce it.

Without Him we can do nothing. We are to remain/abide/rest in the Lord - abide/remain/rest in the Lord and what He has done for us in His finished work. John 15

The life of the Vine supplies the "sap" needed for the bearing of fruit but it is His fruit that is produced in us.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not a lazy passive existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need and we access His wisdom, provision, strength by faith - we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active life.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in good works ( His fruit bearing in us ) that God had planned for us all along.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our obedience in action.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our warfare.

Resting/remaining/abiding in the Lord is our faith in action.

Hebrews 4:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.

There is a vast difference between "us" doing things and the Lord doing things through and in us.

We can do things in our own flesh like Abraham tried to fulfill the will of God by creating an Ishmael or wait for the Lord to work through us to produce the child of promise - Isaac. Galatians 4:22-24, 30

Psalm 127:1 (NASB)

Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is a key question. Did Christ do enough to save us?
No.

We have to
1. Repent of our sins
2. Believe on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins
3. Follow Jesus
4. Obey Jesus's commands
5. Dwell in Gods word
6. Walk in the Spirit, in communion with God

Now you could add to this list or expand each item.

Some say Christ has done enough, and we need to do nothing but believe.

Jesus describes himself as the Shepherd.

I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
John 10:11

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matt 7:13-14

We are called to follow, to follow the road that leads to life.
If you are following, it takes effort and you are doing actual work.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
Matt 11:28-30

A yoke is about being alongside another and taking their road and learning how to
walk it.

All of the above implies Christ has laid the way to salvation, but we have to walk it
to follow, to put effort in, to choose, to make decisions and fight the good fight.

So it is hard to believe people who say they know scripture, yet claim they
need do nothing and Christ has done it all, it is just resting and reaping.

This is just heresy.

Right, what you have written here that you believe is pure heresy. Thanks for making that clear for any who somehow hadn't yet figured that out.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So, according to the OP, the cross does not save, only makes them savable.

That is heresy.

 

[notuptome]

What shall we add to the finished work of Christ? What can we possibly do that Christ did not do better?

If Jehovah God is satisfied why are you not satisfied? Isaiah 53

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

Thanks for the contributions

The reasons why people have statements of faith, and define how someone becomes a believer
because these issues matter.

Now I know everything I have listed is what scripture teaches.

How many times do people ask, what must I do to be saved?

Repent and believe. Then you follow and obey. You need to dwell
and commune.

The problem with language and exaguration, it misses certain points, which
are small but essential.

Take a plane which can fly everywhere, land in airports, take you to the most
fantastic places. Now the technology is brilliant, and without it nothing is possible.
But you still have to get on the plane, have a pilot, fuel, permissions etc.

They are not as important as the technology, but they are still essential.

So when we talk about salvation and walking with God, we often down play the
essential steps to emphasis Christ, and bring glory to Him, but the rest matters
as well or it is all a waste of time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There ya have it folks If anyone doubts Peter teaches legalism, and how Christ's finished work on the cross is not enough to save us, we have it in black and white.


Anyone else want a STICKIE so we no longer have to prove our points that peter teaches a works based salvation?

 

[PeterJens]

So, according to the OP, the cross does not save, only makes them savable.
That is heresy.

Do you know what the problem with reducing the gospel down to a few words is?
It can leave out some essential points.

So in summary from a distance, Jesus saves us.
Closer, Jesus died for our sins to be the ultimate sacrifice for sins, so that once for all
our sins can be forgiven.

Closer, we need to personally accept this work, and believe on Christ.

Closer, we must follow Christ, obey and be transformed by our walk.

Closer, we must dwell and commune with Christ, so in a loving relationship know His will.

Now which layer is the summary, and truth. They all are, except they need expanding.

Too often we desire a summary that does not fit, and to call some group enemies before
we have understood their error or view point, and end up not seeing what is actually going
on.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

let's say that Jesus came across a man who was caught drunk drivink.

PeterJens: According to you, Jesus says
"If you believe in me, and never drive drunk again, then I will pay your fine (eventually)

What Jesus says is:
"If you believe in me, I will pay your fine right now , but if you do believe in me, I want you to change your ways from now on and stop drunk driving (and to help others with this or other issues).

 

[SovereignGrace]

Repentance is a gift of God. Romans 2:4
Faith is a gift of God. Romans 12:3, Hebrews 12:2
To believe in Him is by the power of God. John 6:29

Everything required for the lost to do in to be saved is God-given. From faith, repentance, salvation even unto glorification all are His works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

let's say that Jesus came across a man who was caught drunk drivink.

PeterJens: According to you, Jesus says
"If you believe in me, and never drive drunk again, then I will pay your fine (eventually)

What Jesus says is:
"If you believe in me, I will pay your fine right now , but if you do believe in me, I want you to change your ways from now on and stop drunk driving (and to help others with this or other issues).

Sadly, with legalism.

1. The person whill not be healed.
2. If he trys it the legalist way, He may be ok for awhile. but as a dog, he will return to his own vomit, and most likely next time, will nto make it out alive, We can just pray he does not kill someone.. when he sins again.

 

[NewWine]

So it is hard to believe people who say they know scripture, yet claim they
need do nothing and Christ has done it all, it is just resting and reaping.

This is just heresy.

I think your trying to mince words and are forgetting the reasoning.

Before I became a believer, I was tormented in my head, thinking there was only one thing I was good for. I didn't feel love, I didn't feel worthy of love, I didn't feel like much at all. I could tell you many ways to end my life, but not one way to fully live my life.
The day I hit my knees was the first time I had ever truly felt peace.
So while, yes, technically there are things believers have to "do". The thing about it is, it's restful to me to do whatever God asks, because it's restful to me to have HIS peace in my life now. All those things people see me doing, isn't me working at all....it's God working THROUGH me, while I rest in HIM. Everything is for God's glory, not mine, so I don't see where I do anything for God. He's done it all for me and continues to do it for and THROUGH me.

 

[PeterJens]

This discussion reminds me of politics.

If someone is on the far left, everything is right wing that is slightly right of them.
If someone is on the right wing, everything is left wing that is slightly left of them.

Now if you hold Christ does it all, and anything we do is sinful works, then this is salvation by
works.

If you read scripture and take seriously Jesus's description of action based on words, you
are a faithful follower if you obey.

If you read the law, and must obey every word or extrapolated interpretation of the letter, to
the point you are not found failing it, you are a legalist.

It is therefore a complement to be called a works salvationist by EG, because to be honoured
as encouraging people to obey Christ and find fulfillment in walking in His ways, Amen.

This is why people need to understand where they sit, and what they mean really means.
But this takes discipline and fairness which many obviously fail to have.

For me it testifies to how much they know Christ and His ways and how much they just
want to provoke a response.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Do you know what the problem with reducing the gospel down to a few words is?
It can leave out some essential points.

So in summary from a distance, Jesus saves us.
Closer, Jesus died for our sins to be the ultimate sacrifice for sins, so that once for all
our sins can be forgiven.

Closer, we need to personally accept this work, and believe on Christ.

Closer, we must follow Christ, obey and be transformed by our walk.

Closer, we must dwell and commune with Christ, so in a loving relationship know His will.

Now which layer is the summary, and truth. They all are, except they need expanding.

Too often we desire a summary that does not fit, and to call some group enemies before
we have understood their error or view point, and end up not seeing what is actually going
on.

We....

Accept the things...The gifts of God like the dead man in cardiac arrest receives CPR. We were dead in transgressions and sins. We were not drowning and God throws out a flotation device and we can either reach out and take hold of it and be rescued or reject it and drown. Nay, we were drowned and He has to rescue us and do spiritual CPR on us. This is how He saves us.

Dead ppl don't reach out and grab.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

For me it testifies to how much they know Christ and His ways and how much they just
want to provoke a response.

Well, it's good to see you are willing to admit your own strategy

 

[PeterJens]

I think your trying to mince words and are forgetting the reasoning.

Before I became a believer, I was tormented in my head, thinking there was only one thing I was good for. I didn't feel love, I didn't feel worthy of love, I didn't feel like much at all. I could tell you many ways to end my life, but not one way to fully live my life.
The day I hit my knees was the first time I had ever truly felt peace.
So while, yes, technically there are things believers have to "do". The thing about it is, it's restful to me to do whatever God asks, because it's restful to me to have HIS peace in my life now. All those things people see me doing, isn't me working at all....it's God working THROUGH me, while I rest in HIM. Everything is for God's glory, not mine, so I don't see where I do anything for God. He's done it all for me and continues to do it for and THROUGH me.

Amen. I am with you 100%.

My experience here on cc is some do not see what you are saying at all, and for them
these things believers have to do, they actually do not teach, and are happy to let people
drift in a non faith. As a fisher of men I have found it is important to preach to these issues
to help those who want to progress, and to see it is not Jesus's way, and the path is
good over here. So this is why I am sharing.

 

[PrynceNY]

As the scriptures states:

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.


Acts 17:30
The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,


Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.


"If" people refuse do that that's on them it's no real point in going back & forth with arguments. Everyone will stand before the lord individually & have to give an account.

 

[NewWine]

they just
want to provoke a response.

without even realizing it, that's what you're doing by posting this at all.

 

[SovereignGrace]

If we add one thing, regardless how small it may be, to the finished work of the cross, then the cross was not finished. We had to help complete it when we did 'something'.