Did Christ do enough to save us?
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What stands out for me?
That Jesus can resolve our inner turmoil, still the raging sea, bring order in the chaos,
know how to make peace reign.
When a fellowship can show love for one another as Christ have love for us, we are
beginning to see the promise fulfilled.
Is your heart desire to find this place and this fellowship, or has this hope left
you?
But this requires a level of honesty and openness few have demonstrated and
few know how to handle. I think this demonstrates how difficult the road is
and how close we are, yet in other ways far away from being here.
That Jesus can resolve our inner turmoil, still the raging sea, bring order in the chaos,
know how to make peace reign.
When a fellowship can show love for one another as Christ have love for us, we are
beginning to see the promise fulfilled.
Is your heart desire to find this place and this fellowship, or has this hope left
you?
But this requires a level of honesty and openness few have demonstrated and
few know how to handle. I think this demonstrates how difficult the road is
and how close we are, yet in other ways far away from being here.
p4t - if someone says God is too holy, other, different to be able to be expressed in human
form, how is this not exalting God too high? This is a classic definition of why the pharisees
wanted to stone christians, because of the blasphemy of saying a man could also be God.
Or have you missed this in your education?
Did you not read that you actually cant do anything without the spirit in you working? Everything again is a consequence of Gods Spirit not free-will... Your making no sense whatsover except stressing a tension that doesnt exist. Salvation is accomplished by God, we respond because we have been influenced by the Spirit of God, and this same Spirit dwells within you to bear fruit and minister to you.
I haven't gone through all posts. Am always late coming in for some reason.
I just wanted to say this.
Anything we "do" to please the Lord is for rewards. Not to complete salvation but is salvation working in us. Jesus, faith in His blood sacrifice is enough. He as High Priest has finished the work He came to do and the veil is no longer in our temple, and we have access to Father.
I also believe that the confusion that we get into about works and rest is because of the Great White Throne Judgement day.
His own will not be there for judgement but will be with Him. Our judgement is the judgement seat of Christ and He sits in that chair now as our intercessor for our failures.
Is how I see His Word.
Hi PeterJens....
1) You make the six points above sound like you get nothing else done except these. If that were the case would it be so bad.. Some people do it all the time.
2) However, your question of "Did Christ do enough to save us" puzzles me greatly..... How Much more could He have DONE,,HE GAVE HIS LIFE to you and me so that we might shed all the Sin of this world from our mortal bodies. So that we might walk in His light and live an eternal life with Him after we shed this mortal body.. HOW MUCH MORE DID HE NEED TO DO ??????
3) What you need to do is revisit 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and take a careful look at your life and where you want your soul to live forever. Yes, our soul will live forever,,,,,It is simply a matter of WHERE?
Let me add that God has a plan for each and everyone of us. You are here at this forum asking these questions because of Him ! Each of us has a different cross to bare. Listen to the Holy Spirit within you, ask him to lead you, teach you and keep you safe from the Evil all around you.
. Good luck.
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First of all it's 'wholly other' not 'holy other' so it appears to me you're the one lacking in education. Thank me later for clearing that up for you.
It is apparent you don't know what you're talking about since you don't even correctly understand this tidbit of knowledge. I'm sure you'll blame it on a typo and pretend you knew it all along. Um, because it's doing the exact opposite. Yet I'm the one who needs educated? Interesting. It is looking like you believe God could not come in human form which is denial of the Deity and eternity of Christ. That would be more heresy.
No, son, they wanted to stone Christ, not Christians, because He being a man was also God. It's highly probable from all you've brought forward in your false teaching that you also deny the deity of Christ.
LOL!!!!!!! There's a lot I've missed in my education, but it isn't any of the rudimentary teachings you deny and cannot see. You really need to slow your roll, it is apparent you don't even know the proper phrases or terminology that you attack, of which I've demonstrated to be factual, yet you are still arguing, but ignorant of the truths you attack.
Thankyou
I am being provocative on purpose.
We use language in christian circles like confette. Believe in Christ and you are saved.
Now ask someone to give their testimony and they dry up, not sure what to say.
And buried in the gospel is the need for a response. But that dishonours Christ.
No it does not. Jesus died so that we might know His heart towards us and that He
has open arms to accept and help us. But he cannot make us respond.
So in a theological sense Jesus did everything needed to bring us salvation, but until
we respond we are not saved. So we are part of the whole relationship.
It shows how far culture has gone, and how superficial faith has become, repentance is
redefined, sinfulness ignored and just praising God is being with Him.
It is like the world becoming religious, without coming into the Kingdom or knowing
what it is about.
I understand you hold a very calvanistic view, that there is not responsibility for sin
and choosing God by man. This is not my experience.
And theologically this debate has existed throughout the church, but you can choose to
ignore it, does not make it true. And my experience of the Holy Spirit is we can very
easily quench the spirit, and He is very sensitive to our approach. So your language
does not correspond to what I have found coming to Christ and having fellowship with
others.
Man is very much a team with God, and often goes his own way, when clearly this is
sinful. God warns His people continually, and waits for their response. This is not
the approach of a in control, one way journey or relationship.
if I could, let me try to help a bit here. for those of you that are not accustomed to interacting with peterjens, here is how it works- you write your post, he reads it, responds by telling you what you think, you are wrong, and then go off on random rants about something that you did not say. or you post verses that he does not like, and then he "re-interepts" the verse to suit his personal ( not Biblical ) theology. hope this helps.
Holy - pure, unapproachable, not able to be defiled, perfect, not able to be limited.
Other - something different than we understand or can comprehend.
And you also do not understand my point. Christ was both God and man, one Spirit.
And they wanted to kill Jesus, a man claiming to be God, and they did stone
Stephen, for claiming he saw Christ at the right hand of the Father.
So you miss understand my words and cannot grasp my points. Cannot really progress
then.
Alot of problems with what was just said but remaining to the topic at hand, Man does not complete the work of Christ.
God does not save you because you gave him permission, God saves you because hes God. - Matt Chandler
To think that mans response has anything to do with Christs work is erroneous.
I already understand the meaning of the two terms, but that is not what 'Wholly Other' is. Since you still continue to show you're not educated on this, you should go take a gander at it to see that you're wrong here.
So, sorry, it's wholly other, but you cannot learn or see your mistake here. Perhaps this will help: https://carm.org/dictionary-wholly-other
Yes, two differing instances and subjects altogether and I understand you perfectly which is why I've shown your error numerous times in this thread. Perhaps you should stop trying to teach your errors and humble yourself and listen?
Please, I completely understand your words, they are amiss and show a severe lack of understanding of even basic teachings. There is nothing difficult in grasping one thing you've stated as nearly everything you say is either heterodox or heretical. But that would go hand in hand with a person who believes, and teaches, Christ didn't do enough. Not only that, you cannot distinguish between exalting God and doing the exact opposite.
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Thanks for this.
I would say I express things from my point of view. People respond, with their take or
approach.
Often the perspectives are too far apart so understanding is not possible, but this also
demonstrates that there is a lot more hidden in the cultures and theology being
expressed.
Now the mistake is to believe there is a coming together among enemies, when this
would never necessarily be the intention. I am very used to this, lol.
Now I do not tell people what they think, I express my take of the meaning.
Unfortunately that maybe brutal. But this is often not a kind soft and nice subject
matter. It is often life and death, going to hell or heaven which is not exactly the
ideas of being friendly, when you will be told you are following satan etc.
What does surprise me is me saying we need to respond to the offer of salvation
is so controversial. I did not realise how many either are universalists or believers
we are chosen as the elect and so saved no matter what.
It is certainly an interesting way of finding out. And truly I take no offence at your
behaviour, the emotions involved are very strong and very personal.
In one house group saying King David expressed emotional turmoil was just too much.
So I have broad shoulders and can handle anything you throw at me, Jesus did and He
is my King.
After Jesus fed the 5,000 He sent the disciples ahead across the sea while He went up alone on the mountain to pray. Later He walked to them across the water. They were very afraid, and thought they were seeing a ghost - but He said "Don't be afraid, it is I"
Peter then said to Him, "If it really is you, Lord, command me to come to you"
which He did, and he did, at least, until the wind and the waves took over Peter's attention.
So why did Peter pose this just so? how would it "prove" that it really was Jesus out there on the sea?
Isn't it because apart from the Lord's command, Peter never could have done this - and that Peter trusted completely that whatever Christ commanded him to do, the way would be made for him to carry it out? And that way would be made, of course, by God, according to His will and His commandment, not by Peter's will or Peter's strength.
So the Lord said "Come."
And Peter was able to walk.
Moreover, when Peter's faith wavered, "immediately Jesus reached out His hand and grabbed him."
Peter then said to Him, "If it really is you, Lord, command me to come to you"
which He did, and he did, at least, until the wind and the waves took over Peter's attention.
So why did Peter pose this just so? how would it "prove" that it really was Jesus out there on the sea?
Isn't it because apart from the Lord's command, Peter never could have done this - and that Peter trusted completely that whatever Christ commanded him to do, the way would be made for him to carry it out? And that way would be made, of course, by God, according to His will and His commandment, not by Peter's will or Peter's strength.
So the Lord said "Come."
And Peter was able to walk.
Moreover, when Peter's faith wavered, "immediately Jesus reached out His hand and grabbed him."
♥
Sorry p4t
If I write "holy, other" this is what I meant. I did not mean wholly other. My brain does that
which is not very consistent, but I am happy with my approximations.
I feel you are just being obtuse. I build a model in my mind and reference it.
Now either you address the points or you try and make you own. For me you
have done neither, so I find it all irrelevant. I wonder how you normally engage with
people? Probably this badly. Certainly no brother of mine.
I like this, because it demonstrate the complexity of the interaction, and how each part relies
on the other. It is why I am drawn to our individual walks with the Lord rather than sweeping
definitions. It is often our own emotional views that drive our opinions and not real wisdom,
so seeking the Lord is crucial and walking in obedience. But for too many this is totally
alien.