The easy way to spot a false grace message

[InSpiritInTruth]

As others have said, this is what we believe, teach, and we strive to live without sin.
Where you will not say that you fail/sin from time to time, we freely admit that we do fail/sin from time to time.
And because we do admit our failure/sin from time, you JUDGE us as being a slave to sin.
And by that judgement on your part, you implies that you do not fail/sin and are therefore without sin.
I challenge you to name or quote any one who teaches or believes as you have often stated-----
They are a slave to sin----Sin does not matter-----There are no consequences, i.e. chastisement for sin.

Hey, I'm glad you guys agree with Paul in that quote, as I also hope you will agree with the other quotes from Jesus and from John that I have also posted which confirm this same message. God sent His only begotten Son into the world to not only take away and forgive your past sins, but to also empower you by His Spirit to overcome the world, the lusts of the flesh and the eyes and be able to stop sinning and become fruitful in Christ, walking in righteousness by Christ's Spirit and righteousness working in you.

And my OP was not judging anyone personally, but rather it was given to expose the false grace messages that are leading so many unlearned people astray. My hope and desire is that many will take heed to all the warnings and repent of their sins and humble their hearts before God and He will heal them so that they may be saved. But pride by many is usually the response I get, as is also being manifest in this thread as with many other threads of mine. And being lifted up with pride is the wrong response to the message, as God gives grace to the humble, but He resists the proud.

And I don't have to name or quote any one who teaches this false grace message because I have done so before many times in the past in many of my other posts, as I have been combating these false ideas and doctrines ever since I have been here. But speaking the truth according to the words of God will not make you lots of friends, as those who are still of the world and in the flesh will rebel against the Spirit of Truth. But I also know by the words of God that this is just the way it is, and has been, as Jesus, the prophets and the apostles were also rejected by mainstream religion in their day.

But I like them will not compromise the Truth just to make people feel better about themselves, as it is the Word of Truth that has the power to save and make you free, not believing all the fluff and lies of the Devil. Those who God has given ears to hear the Truth will hear it, in that I am confident.

 

[Magenta]

It's funny, if I was without sin, I would be of good cheer and amazingly encouraging to everyone regarding the possibilities that await everyone to the glory of God. But instead of seeing love and encouragement from ISIT, we see self righteous, blasphemous pride, anger, disrespect and judgment. That right there proves he's a liar, or certifiable, or both.

Jesus was without sin, and He took the time to fashion a whip to use in His Father's house...

 

[Utah]

Wow, I just now saw all these "to God be the glory" posts Well, my very recent remark in this same thread was very close: "to God goes the glory." God is glorious!

Glorious: adjective (from dictionary.com)

1.delightful; wonderful; completely enjoyable

2.conferring glory

3.full of glory; entitled to great renown

4.brilliantly beautiful or magnificent; splendid

Amen, dear sister. But let us digress. What do we sinfull children of darkness and all manner of evil know about glorifying God?

 

[Utah]

Jesus was without sin, and He took the time to fashion a whip to use in His Father's house...

The differences being, Jesus was without sin, no one else is, and, Jesus died on the Cross for us sinners; I'll give my entire bank account to the family of any self righteous Pharisee who freely gives his or her life to save a sinner. Ain't gonna happen. Jesus walked the walk perfectly; no one else has.

 

[Magenta]

Amen, dear sister. But let us digress. What do we sinfull children of darkness and all manner of evil know about glorifying God?

I believe the ongoing unrepented sin of unbelief is the sin to which the Scriptures repeatedly given by the OP refer, for with the Holy Spirit of God indwelling born again believers, that same Spirit is the One Who purifies our hearts in an ongoing process of sanctification. We are called out of the world and realize our sinful nature before a loving, just, and merciful God when the Holy Spirit of God convicts us of our true condition before the perfection that is in Him. Some people seem to know the exact moment they became believers, but I do not. I was a seeker for many years, and God revealed Himself to me over quite a long period of time before I surrendered my opposition to Him. Having been born again does not make me perfect all at once. I am in Christ Jesus, but still in the mortal flesh, which is corruptible.

We look forward to that great and glorious day when Jesus returns at the end of this age. That is where our hope is: in Him, and the promises He has made to us. He will allow nothing to snatch us out of His hands. At that time the corruptible will be ever after clothed in the incorruptible, and our mortal selves clothed in immortality through our faith in the work Christ has done on our behalf, where He poured out His life for us on the cross, due to His great everlasting and undying love for us. We pass out of death and into a life more abundant. Looking forward to a life where sin and death no longer have any place in God's creation... no eye has seen no ear heard the glories God has in store for us! Children of darkness do not glorify God. They do not give glory to God. Their hearts are closed to Him and their minds stand in opposition. They remain in Adam, and if they die in that condition they will die the second death following the resurrection and judgement of all.

 

[JGIG]

I have found a pretty simple way of spotting a false grace message.

The false grace message says sin (works of the flesh) still has dominion over you when you are born again of the Spirit and under grace. This means by definition that you are still a servant of sin.

But the true grace message says when you are born again of the Spirit and truly under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. This means you are now made free from sin by Christ and are now also made a servant of righteousness.

So when the false grace camp say works do not matter, they also include the works of the flesh=sin in the whole mix of works as they say do not matter.

Sin is a work people, and sin does matter, that is also why Jesus came and was crucified.

Thou art refuted. And by Joseph Prince, no less! Apologies if someone else has already posted this. I came across it quite by 'chance' today while doing other things and remembered your OP :

[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44&t=380s[/video]

-JGIG

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

But instead of seeing love and encouragement from ISIT, we see self righteous, blasphemous pride, anger, disrespect and judgment. That right there proves he's a liar, or certifiable, or both.

Rofl! So much drama! And so much love too! LOL!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Thou art refuted. And by Joseph Prince, no less! Apologies if someone else has already posted this. I came across it quite by 'chance' today while doing other things and remembered your OP :

[video=youtube;I-DcZA8NO44]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-DcZA8NO44&t=380s[/video]

-JGIG

Oh please spare us, JP has already been exposed as being a phony over and over again in these forums. Also this HG preacher video is against the forum rules.

 

[Blain]

If the issue of the matter is sin and grace then I would say we are brought to two key standing points being the understanding of grace and how his grace acts with sin in which both cases the sinless doctrine and the hyper grace are at each others throats it's as if their two polar opposites that counter each other.

The scriptures speak of this issue at hand but our understanding of them make them appear to oppose each other 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

as opposed to... 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
both these verse are the most common verse used by both sides and appear to counter each other but that's not the intent of the verses we just make it out to appear this way. Did you notice they both come from 1 John? Do you think there is a reason for that?

 

[Persuaded]

Hey, I'm glad you guys agree with Paul in that quote, as I also hope you will agree with the other quotes from Jesus and from John that I have also posted which confirm this same message. God sent His only begotten Son into the world to not only take away and forgive your past sins, but to also empower you by His Spirit to overcome the world, the lusts of the flesh and the eyes and be able to stop sinning and become fruitful in Christ, walking in righteousness by Christ's Spirit and righteousness working in you.

And my OP was not judging anyone personally, but rather it was given to expose the false grace messages that are leading so many unlearned people astray. My hope and desire is that many will take heed to all the warnings and repent of their sins and humble their hearts before God and He will heal them so that they may be saved. But pride by many is usually the response I get, as is also being manifest in this thread as with many other threads of mine. And being lifted up with pride is the wrong response to the message, as God gives grace to the humble, but He resists the proud.

And I don't have to name or quote any one who teaches this false grace message because I have done so before many times in the past in many of my other posts, as I have been combating these false ideas and doctrines ever since I have been here. But speaking the truth according to the words of God will not make you lots of friends, as those who are still of the world and in the flesh will rebel against the Spirit of Truth. But I also know by the words of God that this is just the way it is, and has been, as Jesus, the prophets and the apostles were also rejected by mainstream religion in their day.

But I like them will not compromise the Truth just to make people feel better about themselves, as it is the Word of Truth that has the power to save and make you free, not believing all the fluff and lies of the Devil. Those who God has given ears to hear the Truth will hear it, in that I am confident.

I have always agreed with Paul.
I am saved by Grace.
My salvation is secure in Christ Jesus, not in what I do or do not do.
I am a son of God by adoption, joint heir with Jesus.
I have a sin nature.
I strive to not sin.
I sin from time to time.
The Holy Spirit convicts and I ask forgiveness.

Now how does that testimony make me a slave to sin or in some way not in agreement with what Paul writes?





Who has taught a false grace message?
I have been here for less than a year and do not have the time to go back through all your post.
Please give me one name and /or quote.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If the issue of the matter is sin and grace then I would say we are brought to two key standing points being the understanding of grace and how his grace acts with sin in which both cases the sinless doctrine and the hyper grace are at each others throats it's as if their two polar opposites that counter each other.

The scriptures speak of this issue at hand but our understanding of them make them appear to oppose each other 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

as opposed to... 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
both these verse are the most common verse used by both sides and appear to counter each other but that's not the intent of the verses we just make it out to appear this way. Did you notice they both come from 1 John? Do you think there is a reason for that?

I've already posted this twice, but here goes again....

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

 

[PeterJens]

Yet more self righteousness, And trying to get to God on your own standing.

What is obvious, is people are like stuck in a time warp.
Everything is just salvation.

Mention issues of sanctification, transformation, and you are a legalist.

Apart from this reminding me of the sunday evening preaching the gospel to the converted,
it is not why we are saved apart from it being extremely boring and tedious.

Now I am convinced certain individuals do not have the same experience of faith
as myself or many others, so I am not going to prove anything, because until you start
on the right foundations progress is stopped.

It is why they pull everything back to salvation, because that is all they have got,
without growth or relationship. Their view of discipleship is continual failure and sin,
and knowing you are a sinner and need Jesus to bail you out.

Now I feel sorry for repeat offenders and the addictions which they cannot break
but it is not my problem if they will not take the medicine. It is also why the internet
is sometimes no condusive to such discussions, as they are completely incapable of
going outside their repeat prescription.

 

[Utah]

Rofl! So much drama! And so much love too! LOL!

Laughing at your eternal demise. You are indeed to be pitied.

 

[Persuaded]

I just want to point out how the enemy works against those who speak the words of Jesus Christ and the apostles in Truth. I have quoted the scriptures to prove all my points and never said anything about me being sinless or perfect. But if you go through this thread you will see at least 4 persons have tried multiple times now to prop up this same straw man argument of "sinless perfectionism". But also notice they do not discuss all the proof text I have provided from the words of God to confirm my message, they just try to sow the seeds of doubt and try to snatch away the good seed of God's words from being planted so that it might not take root.

This tactic of trying to snatch away the good seed from being planted is the work of the Devil, as he comes only to steal the words of God from being planted. Repeating a lie over and over again is also a tactic of the enemy.

WOW! That is very offensive!
Surely you do not keep these pictures on your wall or PC.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the issue of the matter is sin and grace then I would say we are brought to two key standing points being the understanding of grace and how his grace acts with sin in which both cases the sinless doctrine and the hyper grace are at each others throats it's as if their two polar opposites that counter each other.

The scriptures speak of this issue at hand but our understanding of them make them appear to oppose each other 1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

as opposed to... 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
both these verse are the most common verse used by both sides and appear to counter each other but that's not the intent of the verses we just make it out to appear this way. Did you notice they both come from 1 John? Do you think there is a reason for that?

Interesting concept. May be worth looking into. I am curious to see where it would lead.

Except I would not use the term "hyper-grace" I would use the term licentiousness. (biblical term) as you would have the extremes on both ends. and most, if not all people I have seen in CC who would support the term Hyper-grace, or not the people who I would call Licentious.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Laughing at your eternal demise.

It's a glorious thing!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Surely you do not keep these pictures on your wall or PC.

I only bring them out for my friends.

 

[PeterJens]

What makes a legalist hunter?
Someone who cannot progress from their state, and wants everyone to be like them,
and think if everyone was the world would be saved.

What might give the game away is when everyone says the same things. We are not
as you describe, and we do not want to conform to your theology which is not scriptural.

Basically it is not unbelief to know we grow in Christ and are changed from one degree of
glory to another. And the power and method of this change is obedience and communion
with Christ.

It really sucks if this passes you by, but that is how it is, sorry.

 

[Persuaded]

I only bring them out for my friends.

That is sick!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see most arguments in CC as not an argument against the extremes (sinless vs liscentious) but an argument in ones faith.

1 Believes their security in christ gives them the power to grow in spirit and truth, and become Christ like, without fear of Gods wrath every time they fail to live up to Gods standard. (no longer under law but under grace)

2. The other group sees this security in Christ as some sort of means to excuse sin. and live however they want.

while it is true, A false understanding of this security can lead to licentiousness, It is also true to reject it altogether can lead to a form of licentiousness which is limited (I can sin all I want as long as I do not commit these sins) or as many in the church call it, Legalism.