The easy way to spot a false grace message

[InSpiritInTruth]

(Read Romans 7)

Read Romans 6 and 8 it explains how we get victory over the Romans 7 condition.

I am going to post Romans 6 to show we can in fact be set free from sin that works in our members....

Romans 6 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sintherefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free fromsin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us."

Keep in mind, lest you distort the scripture above as well, that John is writing to believers.

Again you guys are going to your go to verses but read all of context, John is not supporting ongoing sin.....

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Again you guys are going to your go to verses but read all of context, John is not supporting ongoing sin.....

People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...

1 John 1

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.

So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.

What a convoluted mess. But then it would have to be when you are trying to prove an imaginary strawman of your own making with scripture.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

If we were not sinners, why would scripture say "If we sin, when we confess our sins he is faithful and just and will forgive us ours sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness"?

Yes, I never said it was not possible to sin, but we are not to continue in wilful and unrepentant sin. We are supposed to be past tense sinners and present day saints clothed with Christ's righteousness, not servants of sin. We are not supposed to be "found sinners" in the present tense.

Galatians 2:17

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

 

[Persuaded]

That's a lot of fancy talk for, "My grace is sufficient."

He does seem to fill up a lot of space with fancy words.
This country boy does not understand half of what he says.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

How many times does it take for a virgin to sleep with another before you consider her not being a virgin anymore?

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Think about it.

 

[preacher4truth]

What a convoluted mess. But then it would have to be when you are trying to prove an imaginary strawman of your own making with scripture.

He forces it into the context he wants, then adds words that aren't there ('for all have sinned') to help solidify his error. That is pretty sad and a violation of 2 Timothy 2:15.

The context is that it is written to believers and is not written to prove Romans 3:23, that is, that all the world has sinned. But then again we don't insert words to the text in attempt to prove our teachings.

It, 1 John, is written to address the errors of the day of being sinless, and shows contextually that even as believers we will sin. Note 1 Timothy 1:15, Paul speaking of himself in present tense, and note Romans 7:14ff &c. The context also, as it goes on, is speaking of not sinning as believers in the sense as 'to set up shop' as a sinner, and to therefore live and to practice a lifestyle of sin. It is obvious as to why John had to clarify the difference between we will sin and the practice thereof. That is the however camp ISIT is trying to place all others who call him on his error.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Again you guys are going to your go to verses but read all of context, John is not supporting ongoing sin.....

How is it that you continue to twist and distort what is being said. John is not supporting ongoing sin. He is stating that we believers who are sinners, (and that because we have sinful natures), have forgiveness through Christ when we sin. We are not using Christ's payment for sin as Carte Blanche to continue in sin. You have a very self righteous view of yourself.

=============================================
"To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

==============================================

According to your claim and the example above, you are the Pharisee.

 

[Persuaded]

All OSAS followers for starters.

That is a lie.
You are a liar.
You just sinned.
Stop with the smiley faces and get serious about you standing before God.

 

[FreeNChrist]

How many times does it take for a virgin to sleep with another before you consider her not being a virgin anymore?

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Think about it.

I can't help it, I am assured that my salvation is eternally secure in the hands of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So, of course I am a supporter of ongoing sin, right?

 

[Willie-T]

I think it must be what he means. If a person says there is a "Theology of Free Grace".... then they must also believe there is some other kind of grace. Perhaps, one they can "earn?"

I believe he is speaking of the system known as 'Free Grace Theology', i.e. Lewis Sperry Chafer, Grace Evangelical Society teachings, Zane Hodges, DTS, et al, not simply about grace itself being free. Huge difference.

Honestly!!! How many times do people have to keep on saying " Show me a person posting here, who says this."?

It is absolutely ignorant and asinine to go off somewhere, searching and searching till you eventually locate someone who says something you disagree with.... and then come running back here, dancing and squealing, that because you found this obscure thing off somewhere, that...........
"Ah-Ha!!! THIS man off in Timbucktoo says he believes in grace........ and YOU say you believe in grace, therefore, anything I can Copy/Paste from his website (Whoever 'he' might be) has to be what you believe also.... even if you keep telling me, over, and over, and over, and over, and over again, you don't believe that."

 

[BenFTW]

Did anyone catch what InSpiritInTruth said, and its implications to his position?

... What I am and what you are DO NOT MAKE THE WORDS OF GOD ANY LESS TRUE.

You simple minded people think that if you can prove me a sinner like yourself that this some how makes void the WORDS OF GOD which I preach? It does not! It might make you feel better about your own sinful condition, but what good is that?

-snip-

In other words, regardless of his status as a sinner or not, God's Word stands true. It sounds to me like imputed righteousness and faith, not a gospel of works. It seems to me that his excuse for his sin is that God's word says that he will be set free from sin and it won't have dominion over him. He will not concede to sin because, in his understanding, God's words plainly state that one born of God doesn't sin.

He is not allowing circumstances (his sin) to define him, but rather he is holding on to the spiritual truth of God's word that declares him free (by faith).

So while yet he sins he will not speak in such a way as to contradict God's word. Its a process, our walk. God's word says we are holy and righteous, set free from sin's dominion. Surely a lot of us here can admit to not be walking that perfect walk, but its the truth. Its who we are in Christ, being new creations dead to sin and alive unto God. One might say we walk in denial to our sins, but truly, people are trying to walk in faith to who God has called and made us to be.

InSpiritInTruth is simply not allowing his sin, the circumstance, to define his walk it seems. He is dead set on accepting God's word that declares him free from sin, no matter the evidence to the contrary. So he will not concede because he cannot.

 

[Chester]

All OSAS followers for starters.

From #220 - so all OSAS followers support ongoing sin??

Would all of you who believe in OSAS and also support ongoing sin please respond and verify this truth! ? LOL!!!!

I don't think you will get anyone who acknowledges this - or maybe I am wrong - I haven't run across any OSAS believers who say this . . .

 

[Willie-T]

I think it must be what he means. If a person says there is a "Theology of Free Grace".... then they must also believe there is some other kind of grace. Perhaps, one they can "earn?"

Did anyone catch what InSpiritInTruth said, and its implications to his position?



In other words, regardless of his status as a sinner or not, God's Word stands true. It sounds to me like imputed righteousness and faith, not a gospel of works. It seems to me that his excuse for his sin is that God's word says that he will be set free from sin and it won't have dominion over him. He will not concede to sin because, in his understanding, God's words plainly state that one born of God doesn't sin.

He is not allowing circumstances (his sin) to define him, but rather he is holding on to the spiritual truth of God's word that declares him free (by faith).

So while yet he sins he will not speak in such a way as to contradict God's word. Its a process, our walk. God's word says we are holy and righteous, set free from sin's dominion. Surely a lot of us here can admit to not be walking that perfect walk, but its the truth. Its who we are in Christ, being new creations dead to sin and alive unto God. One might say we walk in denial to our sins, but truly, people are trying to walk in faith to who God has called and made us to be.

InSpiritInTruth is simply not allowing his sin, the circumstance, to define his walk it seems. He is dead set on accepting God's word that declares him free from sin, no matter the evidence to the contrary. So he will not concede because he cannot.

Except that I doubt you will EVER hear him admit that he still sins, and has yet to see a time when he has finally stopped sinning. I firmly believe he has deluded himself into thinking he never commits a sin.... at all.

 

[preacher4truth]

Honestly!!! How many times do people have to keep on saying " Show me a person posting here, who says this."?

What are you even ranting about? Looks like some huge straw man accusation. Where did I say someone taught something on here and all the other vague accusations you've drummed up? What exactly are you accusing me of? You can use default font size too, and try to calm yourself down before you accuse others of being 'asinine'. All I did was to clarify what FGT is, where it comes from &c because you looked rather off track and confused about it. And angry over nothing.

 

[BenFTW]

Except that I doubt you will EVER hear him admit that he still sins, and has yet to see a time when he has finally stopped sinning. I firmly believe he has deluded himself into thinking he never commits a sin.... at all.

Its possible, but I just think he doesn't wish to speak contrary to God's word and therefore has cornered himself into not admitting he sins because he would then make himself illegitimate. So even if he sins, he believes God's word. It may be denial, it may be faith, or it may just be a misapplication of God's word and what was meant in the verse on one being born again not sinning.

In my understanding that sinning is in reference to sin not being imputed to us, but others define it another way having to do with the non-perishable seed.

 

[stonesoffire]

Did anyone catch what InSpiritInTruth said, and its implications to his position?



In other words, regardless of his status as a sinner or not, God's Word stands true. It sounds to me like imputed righteousness and faith, not a gospel of works. It seems to me that his excuse for his sin is that God's word says that he will be set free from sin and it won't have dominion over him. He will not concede to sin because, in his understanding, God's words plainly state that one born of God doesn't sin.

He is not allowing circumstances (his sin) to define him, but rather he is holding on to the spiritual truth of God's word that declares him free (by faith).

So while yet he sins he will not speak in such a way as to contradict God's word. Its a process, our walk. God's word says we are holy and righteous, set free from sin's dominion. Surely a lot of us here can admit to not be walking that perfect walk, but its the truth. Its who we are in Christ, being new creations dead to sin and alive unto God. One might say we walk in denial to our sins, but truly, people are trying to walk in faith to who God has called and made us to be.

InSpiritInTruth is simply not allowing his sin, the circumstance, to define his walk it seems. He is dead set on accepting God's word that declares him free from sin, no matter the evidence to the contrary. So he will not concede because he cannot.

Probably though the words "you simple minded people" didn't help anyone to understand. Good thing you stepped in.

 

[Stephen63]

Legalism makes legalst hunters.

If people would stop trying to say SALVATION is dependent on works, And rely on CHRIST and HIM ALONE, there would be no need for legalist hunters.

Paul was one of the greatest legalist hunters in church history.

So heretic hunters is baaad, & legalist hunters are goood..... because you declared it so.

Tell me, did you have your wizard hat on & yer wand in yer hand when you proclaimed that?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

From #220 - so all OSAS followers support ongoing sin??

Would all of you who believe in OSAS and also support ongoing sin please respond and verify this truth! ? LOL!!!!

I don't think you will get anyone who acknowledges this - or maybe I am wrong - I haven't run across any OSAS believers who say this . . .

They believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine and no matter what, they believe you cannot lose salvation because of sin or sinning, even wilful and unrepentant sin. So ongoing sin is not an issue for them because in their minds at least all future sins are already forgiven, thus they keep on sinning. Most people will not come right out and say they support ongoing sin, but their words, actions and doctrine prove otherwise.

 

[Persuaded]

They believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine and no matter what, they believe you cannot lose salvation because of sin or sinning, even wilful and unrepentant sin. So ongoing sin is not an issue for them because in their minds at least all future sins are already forgiven, thus they keep on sinning. Most people will not come right out and say they support ongoing sin, but their words, actions and doctrine prove otherwise.

Another lie. Another sin.