The easy way to spot a false grace message

[InSpiritInTruth]

you are a sinner who calls God a liar by stating you do not sin. Yep, God's Word is in tact.

Yep God's words are still intact.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

ISIT simply can not grasp the magnitude of God's love and saving grace we have in Jesus Christ, and therefore calls God a liar.

This is really shameful.

 

[Utah]

He totally refutes the assertions of the OP. And instead of addressing what is said, you choose to mock.

I'm sure no one notices, though.

Carry on.

-JGIG

Ahhh, the Internet:

Making bullies out of grown men who can't bench 70 lbs.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is just a pack mentality. I praise the Lord you walk worthy of your Lord Jesus Christ.
Shame on those who mock and ridicule walking in righteousness, these are the enemies
of Christ.

Great honour is due to you for persecution for righteousness. Sad is the day when
walking and exalting right behaviour is deemed evil.

Your kind words are like a breath of fresh air Peter, keep up the good work! Peace

 

[Utah]

Yep God's words are still intact.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Exactly. You're a sinner. Glad you agree.

 

[Utah]

This is really shameful.

On your part, Skippy. On your part.

 

[Stephen63]

Your remark was uncalled for

I've notice you've been changing lately..... slowly moving over to HG.

Was that uncalled for? Somebody had to tell you. You, sir, need to reevaluate what HG doctrine is all about, before you get sucked into a spiritual black hole.

I didn't bad-mouth you..... just stating a simple fact.

Pray & seek God's will about HG before it's too late. You're closer to bad news than you know.

JGIG is a heavyweight HG'er..... don't be fooled by the pic.

 

[Stephen63]

Ahhh, the Internet:

Making bullies out of grown men who can't bench 70 lbs.

The way you badmouth people, consider yerself very fortunate you can pick up yer coffee cup.

 

[gb9]

I've notice you've been changing lately..... slowly moving over to HG.

Was that uncalled for? Somebody had to tell you. You, sir, need to reevaluate what HG doctrine is all about, before you get sucked into a spiritual black hole.

I didn't bad-mouth you..... just stating a simple fact.

Pray & seek God's will about HG before it's too late. You're closer to bad news than you know.

JGIG is a heavyweight HG'er..... don't be fooled by the pic.

" changing" as in realizing that a person is not sinless and perfect. that has nothing to do with the hyper-grace non-sense. it is telling the truth.

a holy and perfect God cannot tolerate sin. any. period. so, we need a perfect , sinless savior. not so we can sin more, but so we can be accepted by the Father. not so we can judge each other, but so we can be right with Him.

 

[Stephen63]

This is just a pack mentality. I praise the Lord you walk worthy of your Lord Jesus Christ.
Shame on those who mock and ridicule walking in righteousness, these are the enemies
of Christ.

Great honour is due to you for persecution for righteousness. Sad is the day when
walking and exalting right behaviour is deemed evil.

Indeed a pack mentality. Have you noticed lately how they're multiplying?

The more they increase, the more they openly circle those they hate & snap at them.

If nothing is done about this soon, the BDF will end up being nothing but a breeding ground for Satan.

Jesus stated several times to watch & pray..... Who's watching this?

 

[Stephen63]

Being deceitful and dishonest is NOT "walking in righteousness".

Titus 2:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

Only God can judge the hearts of men but Paul describes "deceitfulness" and they masquerade as "preachers of righteousness".

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I know of no one that is as good at projection as you are. You are a true professional.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yep God's words are still intact.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Those are great scriptures that describe the new creation in Christ - the inner man created in righteousness and holiness.

This doesn't mean "sinless perfection in the flesh"

So, do you still sin from time to time?

Do, you still have a work of the flesh from time to time?

Please be honest and truthful with us. Different people have only asked this about 7 times so far on this thread. Others have asked you this same question probably over 50x times and you still never tell the truth to us.

Why can't you just be honest with us just one time so this could be put to bed? Then we will be able to have honest discussions based on truth and not on deception and deceitfulness.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Riding in the middle of the road is not a good plan.

Another Biblical metaphor calls it being lukewarm.

-JGIG

So falling in one of the ditches on either side is a better plan...?
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.
I wasn't promoting lukewarmness.
I would be very willing to talk about the tensions. I think it would help the conversation.
My thinking was along the lines of...for example, God is both severe and merciful.
So the ditch on one side would be to see Him as only very severe and the ditch on the other side would be to see Him as merciful and never severe. That's the kind of thing I was expressing. The places where verses seem to be in opposition to each other. (Not that they are, but they SEEM so until we understand them roundly.)

What I was getting at was how people pick one extreme, to the exclusion of a lot of verses, and so they get a distorted view because they don't have the balance. But then, those in the opposite ditch have the same problem. I see it often in the threads that go over and over the same topic, day after day, month after month, year after year. But there is never any coming together, or even coming MORE CLOSELY together, because neither side has the balance. Does that make what I was meaning any more understandable?

 

[stonesoffire]

So weird how I thought many on here were men btw they engage folks.. until blue pointed out to another that the names come in pink and blue, I just went by Convo... Side note over..

I did not know that. Thanks Holly. I get a lot of bro comments. Makes me giggle.

 

[BenFTW]

Or it could be God's words are true, and His grace is actually working and being manifest in my life by me being actually set free from sin, as Jesus said also said He could do. But why should you believe me if you do not believe Jesus Christ?

If I recall correctly you spoke to me one time and said a Christian may sin but its not a necessity? Meaning a Christian doesn't have to sin after being born-again but its possible. Didn't you say this to me once, or something along these lines? Then they would simply repent if it happened, not when it happened.

It is you who doesn't believe in God's word if you claim a born-again Christian cannot sin. I know you use those verses to claim that Christians don't sin but you then find a contradiction in scripture if you subscribe to this belief. If you believe in sin confession for forgiveness (the doctrine), then that alone refutes your position as that would mean Christians, born-again believers, still sin but confess it to God for forgiveness.

Then there is also the case of your misuse of 1 John 3:9, misunderstanding the Greek which I will leave a link to for you to see that the verse is speaking of abiding in sin, continually. A life style, if you will. As opposed to a moment of sin.

https://carm.org/can-true-christian-sin

Is even one word more needed to show total delusion? This is a very sick puppy.

Well, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The point still stands though, that he cannot concede to sinning even if he knows he has sinned otherwise he would make himself illegitimate (based upon his own doctrine/belief).

It can be argued that he is standing in faith to God's word and not allowing the circumstances to define his reality, if you will. However, he sort of knocked that optimistic perspective out when he claimed that Jesus did in fact set him free from sin and therefore doesn't sin at all.

If its possible, good for him. If hes lying, shame on him. How many are led down a path of condemnation and guilt with a misunderstanding of holiness and righteousness in this life, based upon the idea of legalism that is opposed to the Gospel. It shouldn't be.

Anyways, if he happened to unlock the secret to not sinning at all then by all means we are all ears, right? No one here boasts in their sins, large or small. They want victory over it, and God willing through His process of sanctification it is happening. The pace may not be to our liking, indeed the pace may even be slow due to a lack of our surrender, but ultimately our best stinks. We need God to help us, we need His grace and strength. We also need to be willing.

 

[BenFTW]

So falling in one of the ditches on either side is a better plan...?
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.
I wasn't promoting lukewarmness.
I would be very willing to talk about the tensions. I think it would help the conversation.
My thinking was along the lines of...for example, God is both severe and merciful.
So the ditch on one side would be to see Him as only very severe and the ditch on the other side would be to see Him as merciful and never severe. That's the kind of thing I was expressing. The places where verses seem to be in opposition to each other. (Not that they are, but they SEEM so until we understand them roundly.)

What I was getting at was how people pick one extreme, to the exclusion of a lot of verses, and so they get a distorted view because they don't have the balance. But then, those in the opposite ditch have the same problem. I see it often in the threads that go over and over the same topic, day after day, month after month, year after year. But there is never any coming together, or even coming MORE CLOSELY together, because neither side has the balance. Does that make what I was meaning any more understandable?

The problem can be defined using plain scripture.

Romans 4:4-5King James Version (KJV)

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

There is no middle road for the Gospel. The way is narrow and it is narrow because there is but one way. The Way, Jesus Christ. Our salvation is not of works, but faith. Saved by grace through faith.

I understand what you are saying, however. People often quote extremes, perceived extremes, but just maybe they aren't extremes. It may just be that, black and white. The truth and the lie. There is no middle ground for a truth, the truth is rather blunt. It is what it is. The whole grace versus law debate, for example. As far as salvation is concerned, there is no middle ground that would agree with God's word (as shown in the above verse on works).

JGIG's point is that a person cannot take grace and works and be in the middle otherwise they will nullify the two. Grace would no longer be grace and works no longer works. Either it is free or its a debt owed.

Again...


Romans 4:4-5King James Version (KJV)

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Angela53510]

They're too busy praying within themselves and thanking god they aren't like others...

Preacher, not to intrude on this post, but you have been a member here for 6 days, and you feel like you can judge people you have not met, barely communicated with, and maybe read only a few of their posts? A certainly no history with, unless in fact, you are a returning member, who decided to come back to jump on the bashing bandwagon?

I think you need to stand back and maybe post from the Bible, before you start making people into Pharisees here, for posting Bible verses in the BIBLE Discussion Forum.

That applies to the rest of you!

There are a few people posting Scriptures, and a LOT of people calling others down. I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but this thread truly shows "pack" mentality, as Peter posted, when a newbie comes on and jumps right in condemning people he does not even know, because those people seem in the majority.

That is what the prohibition on hypergrace was about. About NOT being slanderous and mean to one another. The response in this thread is rather shocking, and an embarrassment. I cannot believe some of you would dare to call yourselves Christians! You revile and you disgrace yourselves! You show no evidence of "turning the other check" - 777x77 times! Well, except maybe ISIT, whom I have not seen calling anyone names. Just posting Scriptures. If you don't agree with his verses, because they are out of context, or mistranslated in KJV English, for example, then please counter them. If not, then show the love of God, and show that according to Paul in 1 Cor. 13, love is the most important quality that will remain.

"Now these three remain:
faith, hope, and love.
But the greatest of these is love." 1 Cor. 13:13

If you don't agree with ISIT, and you have no Biblical considerations to add, then proper decorum would dictate you leave the thread. It will quickly drop to page 2 and out of sight, if all the naysayers walked away!

Rant over!

PS. I did not come here to defend ISIT or anyone else. But after reading a few pages, I just felt a little bit of godly rebuke was in order. Sorry if that comes across as unforgiving. I do forgive people for their rude comments and behaviour, but I would prefer this behaviour did not continue.

 

[breno785au]

We cannot renew our own minds that's what the Spirit does, notice the previous verse says the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, which means they are spiritual as we are empowered by God= "mighty through God"...

2 Corinthians 10:4-5

[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

God has given us the power to do so through His Spirit within us, but we also take part in the renewing - when a thought arises that doesn't line up that agrees with godliness we have the power to cast it down.

 

[pottersclay]

Failure to connect the dots sometimes puts a grey area in one's faith. Believing that Christ died for are sins 2000 and some years ago tends to make us look at what was done 2000 yrs ago. But what truly was done?
Not only do we have a resurrected Lord and savior who will never die again but is eternal.
We also have a living sacrifice, that will never die again but is eternal.
Think about it, meditate on it, God's greatest Devine accomplishments, a living sacrifice. Jesus is a living sacrifice.
So know this when we sin we have a mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus.

 

[JGIG]

Originally Posted by Stunnedbygrace

I haven't met you yet 88. Hello.
This is a very true statement. There are ditches on both sides of a road.
It distresses me to see people pick opposing ditches and hunkering down for a fight.
So may verses are ever at tension with one another.

Riding in the middle of the road is not a good plan.

Another Biblical metaphor calls it being lukewarm.

-JGIG

So falling in one of the ditches on either side is a better plan...?
Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying.
I wasn't promoting lukewarmness.
I would be very willing to talk about the tensions. I think it would help the conversation.
My thinking was along the lines of...for example, God is both severe and merciful.
So the ditch on one side would be to see Him as only very severe and the ditch on the other side would be to see Him as merciful and never severe. That's the kind of thing I was expressing. The places where verses seem to be in opposition to each other. (Not that they are, but they SEEM so until we understand them roundly.)

What I was getting at was how people pick one extreme, to the exclusion of a lot of verses, and so they get a distorted view because they don't have the balance. But then, those in the opposite ditch have the same problem. I see it often in the threads that go over and over the same topic, day after day, month after month, year after year. But there is never any coming together, or even coming MORE CLOSELY together, because neither side has the balance. Does that make what I was meaning any more understandable?

Where is the Scripture to back up your 'ditch' theory? Where does God say to 'balance' Grace with Law? He doesn't. He says quite the opposite throughout the New Covenant Scriptures!

Are there exhortations for the believer to live holy and upright lives?

Yes.

Is our salvation based on what we do or do not do?

No.

Our salvation is based on what Christ has done for us and on His Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood - we enter into Him by faith. And He CHANGES us. We are to

6 Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. (from Col. 2)​

And trust that

6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (from Phil. 1)​

These are realities of how God does His work in us - we can trust Him, we can walk in thankfulness and not in fear \o/! He teaches us by His Grace (Tit. 2), and He's not 'fixing' the old you who was in Adam, but teaching you to walk in the newness of the Life of Christ in you! When we understand that, we can read the following and be encouraged and built up in Christ:

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. (from Rom. 6)​

Folks (like InSpiritInTruth in post #241) need to stop using Romans 6 as a stick with which to beat believers over the head and start using it as the encouragement to build believers up in who they are in Christ and to walk in Him!

-JGIG