Tongues Again???

[stonesoffire]

Please show a historical soure that says that the priest of Aphrodite uttered gibberish sounds.

VCO was claiming that the priest of Apollo would tell people to say 'batta batta' and that is where the Greek word translated 'vain repetitions' comes from. But I asked for eaidence for this and he dodged the question and eventually blocked me.


I have a question. Where does Paul say this was going on? Is it right to just assume that pagan practices were occuring in New Testament churches without evidence?

How is attributing a gift of the Spirit in the first century to Apollo or Aphrodite different from attributing a work of the Spirit to Beelzebub? Jesus gave His opponents one of the most bone-chilling warnings aboutthat.We haven't even gotten to that. If I am talking with a cessationist who takes a rather sensible straightforward reading of the text, usually our views on order about tongues per se in the text aren't that different. The main difference is that I believe we should obey the commandments of the Lord on speaking in tongues, but the cessationist thinks they do not apply.B

ut with VCOs interpretation, where you don't go by what the text actually says, but you assume the church must have been functioning as a pagan temple, without any evidence for it in the text, it is hard to move past that to a sensible conversation. Some of his facts are right on. The application of the facts aren't rational, and are quite dangerous.

The evidence for this is quite flimsy, since it does not fit the text. I don't see any evidence that cessationist posters on here understand the mysteries revealed in the Bible any better than Paul did. If our knowledge were complete, we would not have these disagreements. This discussion disproves your interpretation. Even the cessationists don't agree.You don't believe that gifts of the Spirit were really pagan practices do you?

Interesting...I wonder if vco thinks a crowd is speaking in pagan tongues at a ball game? Ya know...hey batta batta...lol

 

[presidente]

I don't get how VCO posting pictures of idols and best guesses of the locations of the Jewish synagogue and the locations of temples to Apollos and other gods does anything to bolster his assertions about what is going on in the text of I Corinthians.

I think most of us who went to high school and have read I Corinthians and Acts know that:
- The pagan Corinthians worshipped those false gods, the Olympians and others
- That there was a synagogue in Corinth
- That for a time, the church met in the building that shared a wall with the synagogue.

This stuff isn't up for debate. None of this proves that the Corinthian Christians were speaking in pagan tongues. The text does not say that.

To read into I Corinthians 14 the idea that Paul knowingly was addressing demonized pagan utterances is to make Paul out to be a very, very bad man who promoted pagan practices. This is a false interpretation

And attributing the gifts of the Spirit to demons is a very, very bad thing to do. This is a false interpretation.

To assume that Paul's statement that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Christ accursed deals with a specific case they were dealing with is an unsubstiantiated assumption.

If you assume there was such a case or such cases, assuming that they occurred in the church rather than in the preconversion experience of the readers, which the verse actually addresses is totally unreasonable.

Then to insist that the reference to the idea that no one speaking by the Spirit says that Christ is accursed, has something to do with speaking in tongues, which is clearly presented as being from the Spirit in the passage, is totally irrational.

The passage makes perfect sense if there were no reports or occurrences that Paul or his readers know of of individuals cursing Christ under the influence of a pneumatika.

I find it interesting that there are cessationists who insist that 'though I speak in the tongues of men and of angels' in chapter 13 absolutely must be hyperbole, but will insist that it is a fact someone must have been cursing Christ in tongues in chapter 12. Can't you see the similarities in the argument here, where Paul presents two extremes? (I believe I've seen the same two arguments from the same cessationist before, but I don't recall if VCO insisted that tongues of angels must be hyperbole). The difference is that Paul does not mention the idea of anyone specifically cursing Christ, but suggests the possibility that he might speak in the tongues of men and of angels.

 

[VCO]

Interesting...I wonder if vco thinks a crowd is speaking in pagan tongues at a ball game? Ya know...hey batta batta...lol

And that attitude is why you guys cannot tell the difference between the True TONGUES and the Ecstatic Babbling counterfeit.

THEY were certainly speaking the ecstatic babbling tongues at the three places of worship of Apollo.

Just a little past the NW corner of the AGORA, and a little past the NE corner of the AGORA, and #19 on the West side of the AGORA. And if I have followed the Historians leads to the correct location of the Church at Corinth, it was less than three blocks away.

 

[VCO]

I think when Paul wrote to Corinth it was the first mention in the bible of a tongue that came to be called the "unknown" tongue because it was not known to be any human language. The tongues at Pentecost and Samaria, and Cornelius house were all know languages, but not known to the speakers. It is very important to separate these two supernatural languages, one was known languages given to believers, who in the natural did not of themselves know how to speak those languages. The other is a language that no man understands but that God understands. The speaking in tongues that Pentecostals do today is mostly speaking in the tongue known only to God. Because no man knows what is being said, this opens the door for just about anyone who wants to, to pretend to speak in a tongue when they are not really being given the tongue from God. There really is a gift of the tongue that only God understands, however in the Pentecostal movement it has been faked so much so that the credibility for it has been lost.

UNKNOWN is in italics, and I assume you know what that means.

However, I think the Greeks differentiated the two by making the Genuine Tongues plural

and the ecstatic babbling counterfeit singular.

 

[presidente]

UNKNOWN is in italics, and I assume you know what that means.

However, I think the Greeks differentiated the two by making the Genuine Tongues plural

and the ecstatic babbling counterfeit singular.

A quick examination of all the occurrences of the plural 'tongue' in I Corinthians 14 in the KJV disprove this hypothesis. (The KJV sticks with the Greek on singulars and plurals in this chapter, which can be seen in an interlinear.)

Please note the use of the singular 'tongue' in the following verses.

I Corinthians 14
26 ...Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Why would Paul want babbling interpreted to edify the assembly? That makes no sense. If Paul wants ecstatic babbling interpreted, the ecstatic babbling must be good. If ecstatic babbling is not a good thing, then Paul is not talking about ecstatic babbling here.


and

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Why would Paul do it if it were bad?

VCO can't read this. I believe I pointed it out to him in a post earlier in the thread without quoting the verses like this. Feel free to point this out to him. I don't know if showing him the contradiction between scripture and his ideas will cause him to change his thinking or stop sharing his ideas. It did not work earlier in the thread. His 'research' gets more prominence in his posts on this topic than the plain sense of the text.

 

[stonesoffire]

It's a ridiculous argument. If there was just a few here and there speaking in tongues, there might be something to check, but not all the churches today that are full gospel.

And its Jesus and Father who we love and worship.

The demonic activity that i see happening is cessationists being blinded from the truth.

 

[fredoheaven]

So, what do you think about the idea that the Corinthians were speaking in demonic tongues? Do you think that Paul wanted the Corinthians to interpret demonic tongues to edify one another? Did Paul tell someone who would pray in a demonic tongue that he gave thanks well? I would expect all the pagan Greeks to worship Apollo, Aphrodite, Minerva, etc., all the 12 of the Olympians in their mythology plus a number of minor false gods, and probably many of them would worship foreign gods as well. Polytheism can absorb other deities that way.But I do not believe that the gifts of the Spirit were pagan. I do not think that God is the same as the false gods the pagan Greeks worshipped. There is a true God and many false gods. All religions are not the same. This sounds like the way some unbelieving liberal secular type who thinks all religions are the same would read the text.

I am not saying that Corinthians were speaking in demonic tongues. Prior to their conversion may have experienced such ‘tongue twisters’ as based on their cultural-religious background.

 

[fredoheaven]

Please show a historical soure that says that the priest of Aphrodite uttered gibberish sounds.

VCO was claiming that the priest of Apollo would tell people to say 'batta batta' and that is where the Greek word translated 'vain repetitions' comes from. But I asked for eaidence for this and he dodged the question and eventually blocked me.


I have a question. Where does Paul say this was going on? Is it right to just assume that pagan practices were occuring in New Testament churches without evidence?

How is attributing a gift of the Spirit in the first century to Apollo or Aphrodite different from attributing a work of the Spirit to Beelzebub? Jesus gave His opponents one of the most bone-chilling warnings aboutthat.We haven't even gotten to that. If I am talking with a cessationist who takes a rather sensible straightforward reading of the text, usually our views on order about tongues per se in the text aren't that different. The main difference is that I believe we should obey the commandments of the Lord on speaking in tongues, but the cessationist thinks they do not apply.B

ut with VCOs interpretation, where you don't go by what the text actually says, but you assume the church must have been functioning as a pagan temple, without any evidence for it in the text, it is hard to move past that to a sensible conversation. Some of his facts are right on. The application of the facts aren't rational, and are quite dangerous.

The evidence for this is quite flimsy, since it does not fit the text. I don't see any evidence that cessationist posters on here understand the mysteries revealed in the Bible any better than Paul did. If our knowledge were complete, we would not have these disagreements. This discussion disproves your interpretation. Even the cessationists don't agree.You don't believe that gifts of the Spirit were really pagan practices do you?

Well, in the scholarship point of view, it is agreed that pagan dumb idol worshippers used ecstatic, gibberish sound imitating glossolalia. You know, the Bible says that even during the time of Paul, certain false prophets, teachers, apostles, pastors and teachers were come to deceived others including believers. What actually, I am talking about is the historical, cultural- religious background of the Corinth as a whole and not the Corinth Church

The probability of the Corinth Converts which may have influenced with paganism style of worship might be true since the Corinth people are mostly worshippers of pagan deities .The influence maybe the result of why the Corinth believers wanted to gain personal edification rather than as Paul mention Church edification.

So using historical setting or background in interpreting has the probability that some of the converts were pagan worshippers prior to conversion. The gospel preached by Paul is for all walks of life that includes pagan worshippers of Corinth. Examples of pagan worships abound both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament. In the book of Acts records where Diana, the goddess was worship is an example.

I have to say this again that the word “mystery” means unknown. These languages unknown to the hearers is of course with signification. Actually ‘cessationist’ is a strawman, not all spiritual gifts cease.

God bless

 

[fredoheaven]

A quick examination of all the occurrences of the plural 'tongue' in I Corinthians 14 in the KJV disprove this hypothesis. (The KJV sticks with the Greek on singulars and plurals in this chapter, which can be seen in an interlinear.)

Please note the use of the singular 'tongue' in the following verses.

I Corinthians 14
26 ...Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Why would Paul want babbling interpreted to edify the assembly? That makes no sense. If Paul wants ecstatic babbling interpreted, the ecstatic babbling must be good. If ecstatic babbling is not a good thing, then Paul is not talking about ecstatic babbling here.


and

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Why would Paul do it if it were bad?

VCO can't read this. I believe I pointed it out to him in a post earlier in the thread without quoting the verses like this. Feel free to point this out to him. I don't know if showing him the contradiction between scripture and his ideas will cause him to change his thinking or stop sharing his ideas. It did not work earlier in the thread. His 'research' gets more prominence in his posts on this topic than the plain sense of the text.

You said: Why would Paul do it if it were bad?

Of course, Paul didn’t do it, he says “if I pray” not “when I pray” then Paul says what is it then? He will pray with the spirit with understanding. He didn’t pray in an 'unknown tongue' as supposed.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

<snip>
If you assume there was such a case or such cases, assuming that they occurred in the church rather than in the preconversion experience of the readers, which the verse actually addresses is totally unreasonable.

<snip>

What does the part in bold exactly mean?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You said: Why would Paul do it if it were bad?

Of course, Paul didn’t do it, he says “if I pray” not “when I pray” then Paul says what is it then? He will pray with the spirit with understanding. He didn’t pray in an 'unknown tongue' as supposed.

1 Cor. 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Cor. 14:14,15 For if I pray in an tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, AND I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I will sing with the understanding also.

 

[presidente]

What does the part in bold exactly mean?

I'll explain

[FONT=&quot]I Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul did not want them to be ignorant of pneumatikon, the word hear described as spiritual gifts. My understanding is that this word might have been used by pagans to describe their false experiences, even though it is used in a positive sense, e.g. I Cor. 14:1 where Paul exhorts his readers to desire them especially prophesying.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

This talks about their days before conversion. They were idolators.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Paul does not say that anyone was cursing Christ. Notice before this verse, Paul talks about their pre-conversion idolatry. After this verse Paul talks about the gifts of the Spirit. If anyone had cursed Christ through a false pneumatika, it makes sense that it would have occurred when they were pagan Gentiles worshiping idols, and certainly not when they were operating in gifts of the Spirit. No one curses Christ by speaking by the Spirit of God.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit

After this, Paul discusses genuine gifts of the Spirit, including divers tongues, way down at the bottom of the list.[/FONT]

 

[garee]

I'll explain

I Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul did not want them to be ignorant of pneumatikon, the word hear described as spiritual gifts. My understanding is that this word might have been used by pagans to describe their false experiences, even though it is used in a positive sense, e.g. I Cor. 14:1 where Paul exhorts his readers to desire them especially prophesying.

Spiritual gift are spiritual, not seen. We walk (hear God) by faith not by sight. The Jew required a sign before they would believe just as do those that must seek after sign gifts. The cross is the enemy as a stumbling block to those who seek after signs

It the same with some of these sign gifts denominations. We walk by faith not after our own fleshly experiences .Experience is not the validator of unseen truths .God’s alone word is.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

This talks about their days before conversion. They were idolators.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Paul does not say that anyone was cursing Christ. Notice before this verse, Paul talks about their pre-conversion idolatry. After this verse Paul talks about the gifts of the Spirit. If anyone had cursed Christ through a false pneumatika, it makes sense that it would have occurred when they were pagan Gentiles worshiping idols, and certainly not when they were operating in gifts of the Spirit. No one curses Christ by speaking by the Spirit of God.

It not speaking by the Spirit but rather speaking by the flesh .No such thing as a sign gift. Signs are for those who believe not (no faith) .Prophecy for those that are given the faith of Christ so that they can believe God . Its law that is not subject to change.

Many seem to ignore it?

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them "that believe", but to them "that believe not
: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

 

[presidente]

Spiritual gift are spiritual, not seen. We walk (hear God) by faith not by sight. The Jew required a sign before they would believe just as do those of seek after sign gifts. The cross is the enemy as a stumbling block to those who seek after signs

You are confused. You seem to have trouble grasping the simple truths related to the words you speak. I'll pray for you.

I Corinthians 12 speaks of the manifestation of the Spirit. These are things that can be seen, heard, or otherwise experienced. Experiencing the work of the Spirit is not contrary to faith. If you think that, either you are not familiar with the Gospels and Acts and the Old Testament, or you are just confused and have difficulty connecting the dots.

Peter was not a bad person because he wanted to walk on water. Wanting to walk on water was not contrary to faith. Peter did not walk on water because he lacked faith. He sank because he doubted, though. He saw the wind and the waves, doubted, and sank. The fact that walking on water was something that could be seen and felt is not contrary to faith. That is not 'we walk by faith, and not by sight' means. You totally pull that phrase out of context, and argue for some weird idea that runs contrary to the examples of miracles we have in the Gospels.

It is not wrong to want to do signs and wonders to win others to Christ. The apostles prayed for God to stretch forth his hand to do signs and wonders, and then they did miracles.

There are some people who will not believe unless they see signs and wonders. This is not a good thing. But God, in His mercy, still had Jesus do signs and wonders and the apostles also. Jesus told Thomas to stretch forth his finger and put it in his hand and to stretch forth his hand and put it in His side, and be not faithless but believing.

Thomas missed out on a blessing by not believing before he saw. But he still believed, so the fact that he saw did not mean his faith was invalid. Jesus said, "...and be not faithless, but believing."

It the same with some of these sign gifts denominations. We walk by faith not after our own fleshly experiences .Experience is not the validator of unseen truths .God’s alone word is.

How about speaking God's word instead of these man-made pronouncements of yours that contradict the Bible.

Like this one:

Signs are for those who believe not (no faith) .

The apostles had faith, and yet Jesus gave them the sign of His coming. So your statement is wrong and unbiblical.

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them "that believe", but to them "that believe not
: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

So are you in favor of the Biblical gift of prophecy actually functioning in the church? If an unbeliever came in and members of the church took turns prophesying about the secrets of his heart so that he was overwhelmed and fell on his face, would you be in favor of that?

 

[VCO]

It's a ridiculous argument. If there was just a few here and there speaking in tongues, there might be something to check, but not all the churches today that are full gospel.

And its Jesus and Father who we love and worship.

The demonic activity that i see happening is cessationists being blinded from the truth.

So you think you rose above being obedient to this Verse:


1 John 4:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


AND you think you are above, taking head to this warning.


Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.


And thus you leave yourself WIDE OPEN to being deceived:


1 Timothy 4:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,

 

[notuptome]

Why would Paul do it if it were bad?

Show me that what you claim to do and what Paul did are in fact the same thing.

Show from the scriptures exactly what are tongues in the NT church. You cannot get two Pentecostals or charismatics to agree together on languages or ecstatic utterances or mystical angelic prayer languages.

What could you possibly find in the NT writings of Christ that would lead you to conclude that we should desire self edification?

The lack of holiness, the lack of purity and the lack of virtue in the modern NT church has me ready to scream. It must be like when Moses came down from the mountain and saw the Israelites making a golden idol. Imagine the anguish of heart Moses must have experienced in that moment. Here is Moses fresh from the presence of Jehovah God and bearing the commandments of God written by Gods own hand and he sees Israel worshipping an idol they created.

I can only imagine how Paul felt in his heart toward the church in Corinth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[88]

Try looking into the Assemblies of God------- they have real solid teaching on tongues-----it is a real experience---- self edification--- being built up is to bless others---- it's like money ---' the more you have the greater blessing you can be...

 

[VCO]

1 Cor. 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Cor. 14:14,15 For if I pray in an tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, AND I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, AND I will sing with the understanding also.

You people really do not listen and connect the dots do At the Time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians, that genuine Tongues were still active because there were a specific number of Jews that would respond to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, whose names were written in the book of life before the world was formed, and believe, after seeing and hearing the SIGN that this New Testament was of GOD.

1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

Acts 18:7-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] So he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God, whose house was next door to the synagogue.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed the Lord, along with his whole household. Many of the Corinthians, when they heard, believed and were baptized.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then the Lord said to Paul in a night vision, “Don’t be afraid, but keep on speaking and don’t be silent.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For I am with you, and no one will lay a hand on you to hurt you, because I have many people in this city.”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And he stayed there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.


No one has mentioned that fact that TONGUES are not mentioned a SINGLE TIME in 2 Corinthians. Could that be because that the NUMBER of unbelieving Jews who would see, hear the SIGN of TONGUES, had been reached and they now believed in the LORD JESUS CHRIST as their MESSIAH? Therefore the purpose for the genuine SIGN of TONGUES had been fulfilled and therefore that temporal SIGN came to an END.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I'll explain

I Corinthians 12
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

Paul did not want them to be ignorant of pneumatikon, the word hear described as spiritual gifts. My understanding is that this word might have been used by pagans to describe their false experiences, even though it is used in a positive sense, e.g. I Cor. 14:1 where Paul exhorts his readers to desire them especially prophesying.

This talks about their days before conversion. They were idolators.

You do know that "gifts" here was added . . . the more true definition here of pneumatikos would be "spiritual matters" or "spiritual things". Paul is saying he doesn't want those born again ignorant concerning spiritual matters.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

In verse one he is addressing born again Christians who WERE Gentiles carried away unto dumb idols; i.e. mute idols, or the idols, the mute [ones] . . . BTW, in the church, the body of Christ there is no more Jew nor Gentile but all are one in the body of Christ.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Paul does not say that anyone was cursing Christ. Notice before this verse, Paul talks about their pre-conversion idolatry. After this verse Paul talks about the gifts of the Spirit. If anyone had cursed Christ through a false pneumatika, it makes sense that it would have occurred when they were pagan Gentiles worshiping idols, and certainly not when they were operating in gifts of the Spirit. No one curses Christ by speaking by the Spirit of God.

Now, if I wanted to read between the lines to get more substance - I would say that he is letting them know and wants them to understand that no one speaking by the spirit of God calls Jesus accursed because of how the manifestation of the Spirit were being handled - With everyone speaking in tongues at once . . . no interpretation . . . they thought they were mad or even demonic - #1 - verse one is speaking to those who could understand spiritual matters - those born of the Spirit; #2 - verse two is speaking about before they were born again . . . NO ONE can speak by the Spirit unless they are born again of the Spirit. This goes right along with verse one . . . I do not want you ignorant therefore I give you to understand. . . .

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit

After this, Paul discusses genuine gifts of the Spirit, including divers tongues, way down at the bottom of the list.

v4 . . Now there are diversities of gifts but the same Spirit. . . many gifts but God is the giver of all
v5 . . There are different administrations, but the same Lord. . . . different "services"
v6 . . And there are diversities of operations but the same God which works in all. God energizes the signs, miracles and wonders
v7 . . BUT, BUT, BUT . . . setting in contrast that which was said before . . . the MANIFESTATION of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal (common good). Then begins the list of the ways in which the "gift" of holy spirit is manifested (8-10). This word "manifestation" is the Greek word phanerosis and it means "to cause something to be fully known by revealing clearly and in some detail" - "to make known, to make plain, to reveal, to bring to the light, to disclose, revelation". v7 . . . Tells us that: That which happened with the new birth, that new creation within, spirit that was born in us will be manifested in the physical realm . . . these are ways in which the gift of holy spirit is used.

 

[stonesoffire]

So you think you rose above being obedient to this Verse:


1 John 4:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


AND you think you are above, taking head to this warning.


Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.


And thus you leave yourself WIDE OPEN to being deceived:


1 Timothy 4:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons,

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Why do you not trust Him VCO? Do you honestly think the devil has that much power? You cannot worship the Lord Jesus Christ and be led astray in this way. It's a relationship with Him, and with the Godhead.

I dont think your intent is evil, that you honestly believe you are right.

Brother Andrew and John Sherril prayed in the spirit together which opened doors for them to take bibles behind the iron curtain. It's not just a gift for ones amusement. And Christians immaturely may do what you have observed. But! God is faithful to correct His own.

This language of our new created spiritual being has great great purpose for our prayers at times can be lacking in faith and we can wrongly what we "think" is the will of God.

I just heard a testimony of one who had died during a surgical procedure and had an experience with the Lord. The Lord told him that our prayer language can be compared to a dynamite blast in the physical world.

I know the power of this. I experienced that power 5 yrs ago when I was close to dying.

You cant argue ever against an experience with God. And this is available to whosoever...