The easy way to spot a false grace message
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The OP is about a false grace message or doctrine, that says you continue to sin even after being born again of the Spirit and under grace. But a true empowered grace makes one free from sin and so sin shall not have dominion over you any longer- Romans 6:14
Romans 6:1-2
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
So a false grace message says you will be always be a servant of sin because it teaches you will not be able to ever stop sinning while in this world. But a true grace doctrine teaches you can indeed be made free from sin and sinning by the power of God in Christ.
Romans 6:1-2
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
So a false grace message says you will be always be a servant of sin because it teaches you will not be able to ever stop sinning while in this world. But a true grace doctrine teaches you can indeed be made free from sin and sinning by the power of God in Christ.
More rejection of the word....
I guess you are more faithful and righteous than Jesus, John, James, Matthew and all the other disciples of Jesus....
These men above (saved, immersed and learning under Jesus as his disciples)...and Jesus said there is none GOOD but God
John as a saved child of God, who under inspiration, said if we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us....
Every time you proclaim this heretical sinless lifestyle that you nor anyone else leads, you claim to the world that you are deceived and do not have the truth!
The best we can do is suppress sin and manage sin dia the truth and the Spirit, NO ONE IS SINLESS 100% while still bound in flesh.....the sooner you get this through your head the sooner you may see Jesus by faith!
I guess you are more faithful and righteous than Jesus, John, James, Matthew and all the other disciples of Jesus....
These men above (saved, immersed and learning under Jesus as his disciples)...and Jesus said there is none GOOD but God
John as a saved child of God, who under inspiration, said if we say that we have no sin we are deceived and the truth is not in us....
Every time you proclaim this heretical sinless lifestyle that you nor anyone else leads, you claim to the world that you are deceived and do not have the truth!
The best we can do is suppress sin and manage sin dia the truth and the Spirit, NO ONE IS SINLESS 100% while still bound in flesh.....the sooner you get this through your head the sooner you may see Jesus by faith!
If I might add..... It has been kicked around here for over a year. It's called hyper-grace.
Their ministers are Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, & John Crowder, that's the ones I read about. I would advise anybody to look these guys up for their own satisfaction. Paul Ellis actually calls his teaching hyper-grace. Him & Prince go into details of what the doctrine is about.
HAPPY HUNTING!
Their ministers are Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, & John Crowder, that's the ones I read about. I would advise anybody to look these guys up for their own satisfaction. Paul Ellis actually calls his teaching hyper-grace. Him & Prince go into details of what the doctrine is about.
HAPPY HUNTING!
I know I said this before but it may help new people reading this.
This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.
In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".
Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.
This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.
We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.
Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.
There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.
Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".
Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.
"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.
The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.
The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".
Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13
As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
This should help to know the difference between "sin" - the noun used in Romans 6:14 "sin shall not have dominion over you" and "sinning" the verb which is the action of sinning.
In order to understand Romans 6-7 ( and then finally chapter 8 where the Spirit comes in ) we need to understand the difference between "sin" and "sinning".
Not knowing this leads to all kinds of doctrines like this "sinless perfection in the flesh" one that some try to promote. This doctrine will upset the faith of the young Christian and really in the end promote turmoil in their minds and ship-wreck their faith.
This will also create a works-righteousness mindset instead of a faith-righteousness one that is completely fixed on Christ's completed work for the believer.
We will always have the flesh with us and anyone that says they never are "sinning" have a very low opinion of the holiness of God and are only thinking of the "biggie sins" which they don't do.
Malice and slander and things like these ( Gal. 5:21 ) are just as destructive as living a homosexual lifestyle.
There is a difference between sin the noun and sinning the verb. Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning entirely the rest of one's life. Sin the noun has been guaranteed in the flesh which is why the Holy Spirit circumcised our hearts ( where He lives and is joined as one in the spirit with us) from the body of flesh.
Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".
Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.
"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "
Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.
The set free from sin ( the noun ) is relating to not having to be subject anymore to the flesh because we have been sealed in our spirit in our inner man in Christ. - the new creation in Him.
The law of sin is in the flesh and will be there until we leave this earth. Romans 7:19-22. which is where we are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 : BUT "in the Spirit".
Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Now we are to walk by the Spirit so that we will not fulfill the flesh to do "its" desires. Romans 6:13
As our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ and what He has already done for us - the Holy Spirit transforms us and we live a holier life. This is all God's work but we participate in it with Him. ( sometimes this is also called the saving of the soul which the mind is a part of )
God's grace is not just a word, but it is given to empower us by the Spirit. This is what a active working grace looks like...
The grace of God simply means to find favor and acceptance from God. In the NT Greek the word for grace can also be defined as “the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace. And also as..“divine influence upon the heart”…... χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;including gratitude):”
The grace of God is given as a gift to an individual but is also demonstrated in power and influence over the one who receives it, as shown in Ephesians 3:7 “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”
So when God’s grace is actively working in a believer by faith, there is an influence upon the heart that is also reflected outwardly in ones words and actions bringing forth good fruit, as shown here in Romans 1:5 “By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
So though the grace of God is given as a gift to us, and we are chosen and elect and anointed by God, there is an active manifestation of God’s grace working in His elect for the obedience of the faith and for to do, and to work God’s works and will in our lives, by the power of His Spirit working in us and through us.
But there are also many imposters who proclaim themselves to be “in Christ” or born again of God’s Spirit, or “under grace” but truly are not. So is one able to tell the difference between the true and false according to scripture? I believe there is.
First as we saw above in Romans 1:5 the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, so disobedience is a sure sign. It is also written that this faith that is given then establishes the righteousness of the law in us Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 8:4 “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
This is also confirmed under the NT that we have the righteousness of God’s law written on our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16. So we are not “lawless” as some might suggest.
Also another sign of the active power of God’s grace working in a true believer is that sin shall not have dominion over you. Romans 6:14 Meaning you will not go on sinning and serving the lusts and desires of the flesh, but have truly been set free from the bondage of sin in your life by the same power of God’s Spirit of grace.
So we conclude as in Titus 2:11-15 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that,denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Peace and God bless.
The grace of God simply means to find favor and acceptance from God. In the NT Greek the word for grace can also be defined as “the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace. And also as..“divine influence upon the heart”…... χάρις cháris, khar'-ece; from G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life;including gratitude):”
The grace of God is given as a gift to an individual but is also demonstrated in power and influence over the one who receives it, as shown in Ephesians 3:7 “Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.”
So when God’s grace is actively working in a believer by faith, there is an influence upon the heart that is also reflected outwardly in ones words and actions bringing forth good fruit, as shown here in Romans 1:5 “By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:”
So though the grace of God is given as a gift to us, and we are chosen and elect and anointed by God, there is an active manifestation of God’s grace working in His elect for the obedience of the faith and for to do, and to work God’s works and will in our lives, by the power of His Spirit working in us and through us.
But there are also many imposters who proclaim themselves to be “in Christ” or born again of God’s Spirit, or “under grace” but truly are not. So is one able to tell the difference between the true and false according to scripture? I believe there is.
First as we saw above in Romans 1:5 the grace of God is given for the obedience of the faith, so disobedience is a sure sign. It is also written that this faith that is given then establishes the righteousness of the law in us Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 8:4 “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
This is also confirmed under the NT that we have the righteousness of God’s law written on our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16. So we are not “lawless” as some might suggest.
Also another sign of the active power of God’s grace working in a true believer is that sin shall not have dominion over you. Romans 6:14 Meaning you will not go on sinning and serving the lusts and desires of the flesh, but have truly been set free from the bondage of sin in your life by the same power of God’s Spirit of grace.
So we conclude as in Titus 2:11-15 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that,denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.”
Peace and God bless.
Well, being a teacher and a leader, it really comes quite naturally for me to stand up for those who are getting bullied and beat up, for whatever the reason. Since I saw basically no actual discussion of the actual Scriptures ISIT posted, I thought it was time to take a stand. I wasn't even involved in the discussion. But a random read didn't sit right with me. Not after pages and pages of just the worst sort of personal attacks.
Like I said, I hate bullying, especially when it is done in packs, for lack of a better word. (This goes back to grade 8, when intervened in a teenage pack attack one poor boy!)
As far as the people I am aligning myself with, since I found out what a total heresy hypergrace was last year, I have been standing up against it. That meant being cast out of this angry pack, and finding myself in alignment with people I did not formerly agree with. I continue to build people up at CC. But of course, you would not know this, since you only jump into these hypergrace threads. Perhaps if you came to the Family Forum, you might see the work I do there. Or the work I did on the women in ministry thread. (Yes, I certainly believe women can be pastors! I am one!)
It is amazing that after me talking to a newbie, with very clear reasons as to why he should not be jumping into a pack of ravenous wolves, (I think a good warning for the BDF for any newbie on anyy thread!), you go into attack mode, and start putting me down. Well, I did get a lot from your work once too. But since you have been totally swayed over by the hypergrace movement, I confess I haven't been exactly your greatest admirer, either. But I did try and stay away from attacking you. But I guess you couldn't see that. C'est la vie!
Oh, was the post written in love? Certainly! Just because you do not agree with me, doesn't mean it was done with malice. In fact, this attempt to intimidate me, shows how little you care about anything other than your own unbiblical agenda! To say nothing of trying to stifle the right to post against people who are full of anger, and all the personal attacks.
By the way, Preacher, if I offended you, I apologize. But I do think you need to be more careful about your posts till we get to know you. There are huge rifts in this forum, some of them having been addressed by the mods, and others still happening. Call them cliques! I am totally against hypergrace, (radicalized grace!) but I do believe in eternal security. It is something else to note, that the Arminians have kindly accepted me, in a way, that all those who believe in eternal security have not, since God showed me the tremendous lie that hypergrace is!
In the OP - I believe that "sin" not having dominion over us is referring to the sin that is in the flesh not having dominion because we are in the spirit in Christ and not in the flesh. Romans 6:14
I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.
I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - then "the influence" of that sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.
It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us" in Romans 6:14.
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
I look at "sinning" ( the action ) as a response to the deceitfulness of sin ( that which is still in our flesh ) if we yield to the lie that the sin in our flesh is saying to us. Kind of like cause and effect - that is if we believe the lie of sin that speaks to us.
I too believe that the more we get a revelation that we are not in the flesh but really in the spirit because the real us is in Christ - then "the influence" of that sin loses it's power because of walking by the Spirit which is all based on the grace of Christ alone.
It's the influence of sin in our flesh that deceives us into doing the action of sinning. That is what I see in "sin shall not have dominion over us" in Romans 6:14.
Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Galatians 5:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
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The hyper grace detectives in this thread are erecting straw men at an alarming pace, accusing others of things they cannot substantiate.
'Somewhere, out there, they teach this that we are alleging and attacking. And, since we cannot find 'them', nor can we document what we accuse, well, we'll just blame it on those who post on this site and twist their words and say it's them'.
LOL!!!!
You 'detectives' are swinging at a FGT piñata and have yet to hit it because you have no idea what you're even attacking. It's hard for you to hit a target when you don't know what it is. Keep swinging, maybe you'll hit something.
'Somewhere, out there, they teach this that we are alleging and attacking. And, since we cannot find 'them', nor can we document what we accuse, well, we'll just blame it on those who post on this site and twist their words and say it's them'.
LOL!!!!
You 'detectives' are swinging at a FGT piñata and have yet to hit it because you have no idea what you're even attacking. It's hard for you to hit a target when you don't know what it is. Keep swinging, maybe you'll hit something.
P
If I might add..... It has been kicked around here for over a year. It's called hyper-grace.
Their ministers are Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, & John Crowder, that's the ones I read about. I would advise anybody to look these guys up for their own satisfaction. Paul Ellis actually calls his teaching hyper-grace. Him & Prince go into details of what the doctrine is about.
HAPPY HUNTING!
Their ministers are Paul Ellis, Joseph Prince, & John Crowder, that's the ones I read about. I would advise anybody to look these guys up for their own satisfaction. Paul Ellis actually calls his teaching hyper-grace. Him & Prince go into details of what the doctrine is about.
HAPPY HUNTING!
I have never heard of any of these men you mentioned.
You falsely accused and judged me.
By your false teaching you lost your salvation tonight.
I was warning you not because of one post, but because of ALL the posts I had read before that point that you posted.
As for hypergrace, radicalized grace is a euphemism for this. So, basically, you are posting on a hypergrace thread. It would behoove you to find out what you are joining in on, before you post, not after.
As for sinless perfection, I do not know why ISIT is not responding. I have seen him post in numerous places he does not believe he is sinless or perfect. Because the same people keep asking him this question, over and over and getting the same answer. Perhaps that is why he chose not to answer them. Because he has already answered them.
That is another thing that bothers me about the "pack" mentality on this thread. Plus, I did not see you posting Scriptures to counter either his Bible verses, nor sinless perfection. This is the Bible Discussion Forum, although to read some people's posts, you would never know it. Sometimes more like the Theological Opinions Forum. People just rant, instead of seriously supporting what they believe with the Bible. (This is a big issue in this forum!)
So, it was meant as a warning to you. Perhaps my mistake was not just addressing you, but continuing to go on to address the group. Not all of that post was meant for you, obviously. My apologies again, if you thought it was.
But sometimes, learning the history of a forum, and standing back might be the way to go. Just a suggestion.
'Warning' me? I'm under your thumb somehow???? What is your 'warning' about?
Go substantiate your 'warning' and incorporate my posts as proof as to your 'warning' and as to why since you've read them all and are fully aware as to your threat. Nothing but utter unsubstantiated nonsense on your part. You should probably take your own advice and stand back. Just a suggestion. Anyhow, carry on.
Go substantiate your 'warning' and incorporate my posts as proof as to your 'warning' and as to why since you've read them all and are fully aware as to your threat. Nothing but utter unsubstantiated nonsense on your part. You should probably take your own advice and stand back. Just a suggestion. Anyhow, carry on.
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1 John 3:5-10
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.
So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."
People who are supporters of ongoing sin often quote Romans 7 and 1 John 1:8 without looking at the context before and after. John was not saying we will still continue to keep on sinning and remain in sin while being in Christ, just look at what John says about having fellowship with the Father and the Son...
1 John 1
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
[SUP]3 [/SUP]That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.(for all have sinned)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]If we say that we have not sinned, (for all have sinned) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
It is important to note that John was speaking to those whom he wanted to also have fellowship with him in God the Father and the Son. Also note to have fellowship with God you could not remain in the darkness, as being in sin is also being in darkness.
So John was simply saying that all have sinned, which is confirmed in other parts of scripture. But John was not saying that you will always be in sin and keep on sinning, which is being in darkness. Because if you remained in sin you could not have fellowship with the Father and the Son, in whom is no darkness at all. Hope that clears up your misconception.
Same here.
No one here teaches what you accuse.
Yes, that is what Scripture says, yet we still can commit sin, 1 John 1:8-10, which is also Scripture.
No one is saying works do not matter.
Sin is a work? Everyone here agrees that sin is grievous and we all hate sin. The bottom line is no one here preaches what you imply they do in the above, therefore there is no false grace preaching going on as you put it. You may want to apply some 2 Timothy 2:15 to your lopsided view of implied sinless perfection, it's frankly not biblical.
No one here teaches what you accuse.
Yes, that is what Scripture says, yet we still can commit sin, 1 John 1:8-10, which is also Scripture.
No one is saying works do not matter.
Sin is a work? Everyone here agrees that sin is grievous and we all hate sin. The bottom line is no one here preaches what you imply they do in the above, therefore there is no false grace preaching going on as you put it. You may want to apply some 2 Timothy 2:15 to your lopsided view of implied sinless perfection, it's frankly not biblical.
Hmm! More of the same. You say:
"No one here teaches what you accuse."You have been here 7 days now, how would you know, really??
"No one is saying works do not matter." Again, there may be strange people here who do believe this. We had a bunch of actual sinless perfection people here from South Africa a few years ago. They seriously believed and posted stuff like this. And that people who were not sinless were not saved.
"Everyone here agrees.....". You have been here 6 days, have you read the thousands and thousands of posts in hundreds of threads? You know that "everyone" agrees, or just the group you have joined?
I am seriously thinking you must be a returning member, because I find it hard to believe anyone could know "everyone" and say that "no one" teaches what ISIT is "accusing." That is ok, but maybe better to let people know, so we don't call you out. Or, perhaps you have confused CC with another forum? Or perhaps you have not learned the skills of not including everyone who posts in a thread with your generalizations? Very curious! Not sure what is going on here!
People may have different views on some subjects than others do and they are entitled to their views.
Where the problem comes in is that people insult the other ones for their views that are different than what they believe. Then there are people that try to "lord it over other's faith" and demean and insult them because they see some things differently than they do.
Then there are some that completely mis-represent what is said and they twist what is said to make it "appear" to be something else. This I would call being deceitful.
There are those that will not give a straight legitimate answer to a question. If we got a straight answer from them - then maybe we could have a civil discussion about the "personal application" of some scripture and all of us could benefit from it.
For me I have chosen not to interact with those that continue to exhibit this "superiority complex" and continually insult others and some think that because of their superior training or a certain type of school that they went to - their "interpretation" of subjects is the right one - so now they are free to "chastise" and insult you for what you believe.
We can see what happens when we interact with certain types of individuals that exhibit bad behavior.
It is ok to agree to disagree on some subjects as well but sometimes we just need to avoid some people until we all have a change of attitude. May God grant us all repentance to walk in love and respect for each other. We don't have to agree on every little point but we do need to show respect.
Where the problem comes in is that people insult the other ones for their views that are different than what they believe. Then there are people that try to "lord it over other's faith" and demean and insult them because they see some things differently than they do.
Then there are some that completely mis-represent what is said and they twist what is said to make it "appear" to be something else. This I would call being deceitful.
There are those that will not give a straight legitimate answer to a question. If we got a straight answer from them - then maybe we could have a civil discussion about the "personal application" of some scripture and all of us could benefit from it.
For me I have chosen not to interact with those that continue to exhibit this "superiority complex" and continually insult others and some think that because of their superior training or a certain type of school that they went to - their "interpretation" of subjects is the right one - so now they are free to "chastise" and insult you for what you believe.
We can see what happens when we interact with certain types of individuals that exhibit bad behavior.
It is ok to agree to disagree on some subjects as well but sometimes we just need to avoid some people until we all have a change of attitude. May God grant us all repentance to walk in love and respect for each other. We don't have to agree on every little point but we do need to show respect.
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Yes, and if sin does not have dominion over you that means you will no longer be a servant of sin, which means you will not be sinning. This is not rocket science, just simple deduction.
Take it step by step. Those who commit sin are servants of sin, which means sin has dominion over them because they serve it's desires.
John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Take it step by step. Those who commit sin are servants of sin, which means sin has dominion over them because they serve it's desires.
John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
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