Tongues Again???
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Yes the majority would reject him anyhow, but because the Jews required a sign, he gave them that sign, to remove their LAST EXCUSE. But THROUGHOUT History, GOD has ALWAYS had a REMNANT to carry on HIS everlasting promise to Israel that they would Inherit the Land. That is even what the 144,000 are all about.
Genesis 45:7 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance.
Ezra 9:8 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And now for a little moment grace hath been showed from Jehovah our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage.
Ezra 9:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] O LORD, God of Israel, you are righteous! We are left this day as a remnant. Here we are before you in our guilt, though because of it not one of us can stand in your presence."
Ezra 3:8 (YLT)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And in the second year of their coming in unto the house of God, to Jerusalem, in the second month, began Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua son of Jozadak, and the remnant of their brethren the priests and the Levites, and all those coming from the captivity to Jerusalem, and they appoint the Levites from a son of twenty years and upward, to overlook the work of the house of Jehovah.
Isaiah 1:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Except Jehovah of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Isaiah 11:11 (ASV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord will set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, that shall remain, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isaiah 10:20-22 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] In that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no more lean on him who struck them, but will lean on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness.
Isaiah 28:5 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] In that day the LORD of hosts will be a crown of glory, and a diadem of beauty, to the remnant of his people,
Jeremiah 50:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] In those days and at that time— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— one will search for Israel’s guilt, but there will be none, and for Judah’s sins, but they will not be found, for I will forgive those I leave as a remnant.
Micah 2:12 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as a flock in the midst of their pasture; they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
Zephaniah 3:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The remnant of Israel shall do no unrighteousness And speak no lies, Nor shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; For they shall feed their flocks and lie down, And no one shall make them afraid."
ETC.
GOD IS NOT FINISHED WITH ISRAEL!
Psalm 105:10-11 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then He confirmed it to Jacob for a statute, To Israel as an everlasting covenant,
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan As the portion of your inheritance,"
O.T. Saints are those who believed GOD would send the Messiah!
N.T. Saints are those who believe GOD did send the Messiah!
IT IS THE SAME FAITH. The Faith of Abraham.
John 10:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; {The birthday of the Church is Pentecost, these whom He is speaking to are Jews who are part of the O.T. Saints.}
I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice.
Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.
Matthew 6:7-9 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
{This model for ALL PRAYER, is telling us we should be taking our prayers directly to the Father IN OUR OWN LANGUAGE.}
So what yardstick do you use to tell that it really is the Holy Spirit and not some other spirit. Demons are known to generate ecstatic feelings, so PLEASE do not tell me you can tell by the feelings. When I was young and stupid, it used to feel good to boogie in the Disco while chasing women, but at least I knew those feelings were not of GOD.
I've spent quite a bit of time on various discussion lists with a retired Classics professor, which is a professor of Greek and Latin. He graduate from Texas A&M, worked for some kind of Harvard center for something or other for a while, and became a chair at one of the UNC's before he retired.
No one asked him if 'tongue' in the singular referred to fake tongues, but it was obvious from a detailed discussion we had at one point which included the meaning of I Corinthians 14:27 that he did not hold to such a view. He was arguing for something along the lines of one person speaking two or three utterances, since one person did not turn into two or three when he spoke in tongues.
A straightforward reading of the text, after verifying that the KJV use of the singular and plural matches the Greek in an interlinear, is enough to debunk the idea that tongue in the singular refers to fake gibberish from the Apollo temple. Why would Paul say to allow fake pagan gibberish? Why would he want it to be interpreted? How would interpreting 'pagan gibberish' be 'unto edifying,'
I Corinthians 14:26-28 disprove this theory if we start from the premise that:
1. I Corinthians is inspired.
2. Paul was a faithful minister of the Gospel.
If someone believes that Paul did not know what he was talking about, or was a coward and did not say what he really meant (the latter seems to fit with one of the theories in the article zone posted a while back), then one might draw different conclusions.
Some Bible interpreters think they are smarter than the Bible and the authors that wrote it. It is unfortunately when Bible teachers who claim to believe the Bible repeat liberal, unbelieving theories.
No one asked him if 'tongue' in the singular referred to fake tongues, but it was obvious from a detailed discussion we had at one point which included the meaning of I Corinthians 14:27 that he did not hold to such a view. He was arguing for something along the lines of one person speaking two or three utterances, since one person did not turn into two or three when he spoke in tongues.
A straightforward reading of the text, after verifying that the KJV use of the singular and plural matches the Greek in an interlinear, is enough to debunk the idea that tongue in the singular refers to fake gibberish from the Apollo temple. Why would Paul say to allow fake pagan gibberish? Why would he want it to be interpreted? How would interpreting 'pagan gibberish' be 'unto edifying,'
I Corinthians 14:26-28 disprove this theory if we start from the premise that:
1. I Corinthians is inspired.
2. Paul was a faithful minister of the Gospel.
If someone believes that Paul did not know what he was talking about, or was a coward and did not say what he really meant (the latter seems to fit with one of the theories in the article zone posted a while back), then one might draw different conclusions.
Some Bible interpreters think they are smarter than the Bible and the authors that wrote it. It is unfortunately when Bible teachers who claim to believe the Bible repeat liberal, unbelieving theories.
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WOW! An Ipad? Your old eyes are better than my old eyes. Years ago I had to retire my Thompson Chain because the Print was too small, and I bought a new Extra Large Print center column reference Bible, then the screen on my small laptop got too hard to read, and I replaced it with large laptop with a full keyboard including number pad.
Not quite yet, but I am heading in this direction:
The world of electronics is getting smaller and smaller.
But the World of my readable eye sight is getting bigger and bigger.
Not quite yet, but I am heading in this direction:
The world of electronics is getting smaller and smaller.
But the World of my readable eye sight is getting bigger and bigger.
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stonesoffire,
You might point out that if he reads the chapters around it, Paul was dealing with false apostles. 'Super apostles' may have been what they called themselves. Many people believe that is what the reference to 'super apostles' is about.
II Corinthians 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
You might point out that if he reads the chapters around it, Paul was dealing with false apostles. 'Super apostles' may have been what they called themselves. Many people believe that is what the reference to 'super apostles' is about.
II Corinthians 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
Okay, but how do you know you have not sinned?
If you are focused on edifying self with tongues, (which I understand is sin), to the point that you ignore the needs of a brother, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, instead of ministering to others, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, at the expense of failing to witness to others, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, but fail to Test all things including the tongue, is that not sin? (1 Th. 5:17)
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, and fail to help a neighbor who asks for help, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, and on your way to Church you broke the speed limit, is that not sin?
James 4:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.
OH, the Holy Spirit certainly is in me, and I have been FILLED with the SPIRIT a multitude of times; BUT at no time while I was Filled with the Spirit, did I ever want to focus on SELF. Are you sure you are not following a deceiving spirit.
If you are focused on edifying self with tongues, (which I understand is sin), to the point that you ignore the needs of a brother, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, instead of ministering to others, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, at the expense of failing to witness to others, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, but fail to Test all things including the tongue, is that not sin? (1 Th. 5:17)
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, and fail to help a neighbor who asks for help, is that not sin?
If you focus on edifying self with tongues, and on your way to Church you broke the speed limit, is that not sin?
James 4:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.
OH, the Holy Spirit certainly is in me, and I have been FILLED with the SPIRIT a multitude of times; BUT at no time while I was Filled with the Spirit, did I ever want to focus on SELF. Are you sure you are not following a deceiving spirit.
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You aren't edifying the flesh VCO. The spiritual man is built up. Your definition of edifying is incorrect. Empowered by Holy Spirit within your Spirit.
How you see the things of the Spirit as selfish I cannot understand.
Holy Spirit glorifies only One and that ain't me or you. Sorry, I don't normally say aint but it seemed to fit somehow.
How you see the things of the Spirit as selfish I cannot understand.
Holy Spirit glorifies only One and that ain't me or you. Sorry, I don't normally say aint but it seemed to fit somehow.
My ipad works a lot better than this computer my husband bought for me from Amazon. We thought we were getting a really good deal. A new computer it said for a little less than 400. But, it came in a box that said new (refurbished). Well, I fell in love with it because its red. lol But, it ended up about 300 more just to get it to work and it still isn't quite right.
Amazon did refund some of the money.
Amazon did refund some of the money.
Thanks . . . I never really looked at all the translations nor at the Greek in those scriptures. Of course, the Greek does not go so far as to say "super apostles" but relates greatly, exceedingly, beyond measure (Strong's) and Thayer's - the most eminent apostles. Paul was so humble . . out of all the apostles - he received more revelation (word of knowledge, word of wisdom) than any other apostle but yet considered himself behind them . . . wonderful man of God.
AMEN, on the "ain't", this old country boy understands ain"t. I will use my sister inlaw, a Pentecostal, as an example, of what I am talking about. For YEARS, I kept asking her when are you going to START serving the LORD. Her standard answer for many years was "After I have been built up and edified enough by the Holy Spirit to Serve Him." She did not START to minister to the needs of others until she was in her 50's.
Wow, was she ever full of joy then. Her habitual tongues things had held her back for years from coming to KNOW the joy of knowing the blessing that comes from letting the Holy Spirit empower us to serve others. I had come to KNOW that kind of Joy, early in my Christian WALK, because, I TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY TO EMPOWER ME TO DO WHAT I COULD NOT DO. I knew that I did not have to wait till until HE built me up enough to be used, all I had to do was be willing to be USED BY HIM, trusting HIM Totally to DO IT THROUGH ME.
I usually do not ever talk about how HE used me, lest someone thinks I am bragging. I will however this time give you a short bit of a very long story, to try to give you a small idea of why I believe your charismatic experience PALES in comparison to genuinely TRUSTING and being USED by the LORD to serve and minister to others.
I was born and raised a mid-west farm boy, attending Church regularly, but I was not born again until I was 29. That happened after three attempts at suicide the last week of 1977. My wife of only six months, demanded a divorce on Christmas Eve, because: "You cannot earn enough money to buy me what I want in life. I want a divorce!" I hit bottom hard, face down. After that third attempt at suicide, as I was walking into my bedroom, when a WAVE of GUILT, GRIEF, and MOURNING washed over me, convicting me of my UTTERLY SINFUL LIFESTYLE. Wave after wave of GUILT and GRIEF continued to wash over me, because of my lifestyle of sins. It drove me to my knees, weeping and crying uncontrollably Weeping. I cried out to HIM: "FORGIVE ME! FORGIVE ME! If you have a purpose for my life, You will have to come into it, and run my life; because I CAN'T DO IT! I am making a Mess of it."
No one in the Church that I grew up in, taught me to pray like that. I believe the Holy Spirit gave me that Prayer when I needed it the most. I understood, it was a COMPLETE, WILLING SURRENDER to JESUS. With that Prayer came a COMPLETE TRUST in HIM to do exactly what I had prayed. The totally overwhelming grief over my sinfulness continued as I continued weeping and sobbing. I then fell face down prone, still crying uncontrollably. Apparently at some point, I fell asleep, and HE gave me the most VIVID DREAM that I have ever had in my life. I was on my knees before the CROSS, looking up at HIM. CRYING OUT: "FORGIVE ME! FORGIVE ME!" Then I looked up at the nails through His wrists with tears in my eyes, (and no one in that Lutheran Church that I went to, ever told me the Jews considered the wrists to be part of the hands), and I saw Blood dripping and falling from HIS wrists. I was there at the foot of the Cross weeping, with my arms reaching up towards Him, as that Blood fell. AND I COULD FEEL THE WARMTH OF THAT BLOOD as it splashed on my forearms. I KNEW FOR SURE AT THAT MOMENT ALL OF MY SINS WERE FORGIVEN!
When I woke up, I KNEW, something in me was different. I knew HIS SPIRIT was in me. AND I had this total TRUST that HE would do something with my life, and that HE would empower me to do what I could not do. That level of TRUST has never left me. He even brought a godly women into my life, as my wife; literally, my soulmate. My hunger for HIS WORD grew and grew, when it was NEVER THERE BEFORE. Soon I was Listening to sermons by Dr. John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, Dr. Ed Young, Dr. Richard Lee, Zola Levitt, and a few others. I ended up, over time, having over 500 one hour sermons on Cassette Tapes, and which I listened to, 4 per night on my Walkman player, while working the night shift. Over the years, I figure, I listened to each tape four times.
Then one day as I was trying to witness to a co-worker, a thought flashed through my mind: "It is finished, MOVE WEST." Through a series of miracles, the doors opened to move to Susanville, CA. A job opened up, when they were not expecting an opening for 5 years, and the expenses of moving seemed like an impossible hurdle, but a drunk teenager hit and run my parked 2 year old vehicle, totaling it, and I got more money out of insurance, than I was asking for it in the paper. One little miracle after another, and another, and another; making it all possible to be where HE WANTED ME.
I did not know WHY Susanville, but I trusted HE did. At a men's prayer breakfast one morning, we had a guest speaker, a representative from the Match Two Prison Ministries, looking for Volunteers, so I volunteered. My wife told me, after I became involved in that ministry, that it was wonderful seeing me coming home from that Prison, FULL OF JOY, and commented that it was almost like I was walking 6 inches off the floor.
Then one day, about two years later, that same thought came back to me, "It is finished, MOVE WEST." I prayed and prayed to know why, and the answer came back, "To start a Prison Ministry, in the new Prison being built there." I knew that I had no knowledge about how to start a prison ministry, BUT I STILL TRUSTED HIM TOTALLY AND I KNEW HE KNEW EVERYTHING THERE WAS TO KNOW ABOUT STARTING A PRISON MINISTRY. So once again I stepped out totally in FAITH and let HIM USE ME; thus we ended up on the Coast at Crescent City, CA. It took another series of miracles to open all the doors to get there, plus I was accepted as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain ministering to inmates in that supermax Prison, despite the fact that I did not have a single hour of Bible College.
I even started with those in the "HOLE", called the Security Housing Unit. Every time I walked in the HOLY SPIRIT filled me and I was able to minister to every inmate that I talked to with the equal FERVENCY; no matter how mean, how violent, or how gross they could get. I was not going to mention this, but somehow, I know it is important to somebody. How gross can an inmate get? One of them just to be as GROSS and OFFENDING to Officers as he could possibly get (a sick joke game certain inmates like to play on Officers), had actually thrown his clothes away and smeared his own feces all over every square inch of his body, including his hair and beard. I went in to talk to him in front of his cell, and the Officers warned me, not to get close his cell door, because he was known to try to throw the feces at you. So I prayed to be filled with the Spirit as I walked in, and HE faithfully answered that Prayer. I stopped about six feet in front of his cell door, and he was dumbfounded that anyone would want to talk to him, but I could see he was attentively listening. I poured out my heart fervently to that inmate, telling him about CHRIST and His Forgiveness, for at least 25 to 30 minutes, and even though he did not make a decision for CHRIST, he certainly heard the GOSPEL TRUTH. About 10 minutes into fervently witnessing, I noticed that I could no longer smell that inmate, and in my head, I thought "Thank You, LORD!"
I was responsible to train all additional Volunteers for the Prison Ministry in that Security Housing Unit, where 1500 inmates were housed. I was also used on Sunday Afternoons to escort guest Pastors from local Churches in town in to do the Sermons in the Minimum Security Yard. One Sunday Afternoon, about 3 years into the Ministry, I was standing at the window pacing, waiting for the guest Pastor to show up. I knew his car and could see the parking lot from that window, and watched the clock get closer and closer to the 2:00 PM worship time. Checking the clock every couple minutes, I just about panicked when it reach 2:05 and I realized the guest Pastor had forgotten it was his Sunday to Teach. I hurriedly went into the Office, realizing that I had to Preach, and I had never done that Before. I prayed, "LORD You know I cannot do this, BUT I still Trust you to do it through me. Give me the Words to teach this lesson." I had the basic Salvation verses written in the back of my Bible, and knew just those few verses would become the Plan of Salvation sermon. When I started the sermon, I opened with a Prayer I had heard Dr. Ed Young use several times: Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you for your Holy Word. You SPEAK this hour, and let me get out of the way, so that this message might be proclaimed pure and true, just like you gave us your Words through the Prophets of old, and through the Apostles. In Jesus' name I pray, AMEN." The message just FLOWED, He really was delivering the message through me. And despite how few the verses were written in the back of my Bible, the Sermon Lasted 45 minutes, and HE GAVE ME EVERY WORD OF IT.
I want to keep this as short as I can, so this will be the last paragraph. Afterwards, Inmates had reported to the Head Chaplain, what a good job I had done, (I am convinced it was CHRIST, and not me.); therefore the Head Chaplain asked me to totally take over that Service, instead of calling to arrange for a guest Pastor. My grandfather had repeatedly taught me, "If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT." So I would PUT MY TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, EVERY TIME I STEPPED UP TO THE PULPIT. I would let him pick the Subject, by bringing something into my path throughout the week, that HE WANTED ME TO TEACH in the Prison, thus HE faithfully provided the SUBJECT. I looked up the Verses that pertained to that Subject, and after I got a computer, I would put those verses on a page with a nice border and maybe a picture or two, and that was all of MY input. HE THEN, filled me with His Spirit every week, and faithfully gave me every word of those Sermons, for the next 12 years. Like I said if FAITH and TOTAL TRUST IN HIM WORK, don't try to fix it!
VCO
I do not doubt your experiences for one minute. You are speaking about the anointing. There are more than one gift of using the voice to speak.
But, the reason for a prayer language is for strengthening the Spirit man that we are now. To pray without ceasing. This is to be in Spirit all the time, not for refillings. To let the glory fill the house and be ready in season, out of season. Or another way to look at it. Being One with God which is what Jesus prayed that we would experience.
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Is your youth being renewed like the eagle that soars in the currents of the wind?
No one is judging you VCO. Just sharing what we know is truth, and available to ALL His own.
However, this is not what we are receiving back.
I do not doubt your experiences for one minute. You are speaking about the anointing. There are more than one gift of using the voice to speak.
But, the reason for a prayer language is for strengthening the Spirit man that we are now. To pray without ceasing. This is to be in Spirit all the time, not for refillings. To let the glory fill the house and be ready in season, out of season. Or another way to look at it. Being One with God which is what Jesus prayed that we would experience.
Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
Is your youth being renewed like the eagle that soars in the currents of the wind?
No one is judging you VCO. Just sharing what we know is truth, and available to ALL His own.
However, this is not what we are receiving back.