What causes God to hide his face?

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A

Ariel82

Guest
#41
#41
Can't really comment on any of the other comments because I feel like we are talking about two totally different conversations.

What do you think it means for God turns His face from people?

I will tell you what it doesn't mean.

It doesn't mean God has stopped loving you.

It doesn't always mean you did anything grossly wrong.

It is God's way to call us back into a closer relationship with Him, by having us notice that we no longer has His face upon us.

When we have His face upon us the world is clearer, our hearts freer. It is easier to see the path we should tread for His light is bright.

It is the difference between day and night.

I am sorry if you don't understand what I am trying to say, but to say that we are somehow more beloved than David. To say that God no longer uses the same method of correction today as He did in the Old testatment, just rings as false. His Holy Spirit guided His prophets back then also.

If not by turning His face from us, how does God chaste and correct you when you have done wrong?

Or do you hold to the spoiled brat philosophy of a make believe God that allows his kids to do whatever makes them "happy"? Pull the legs off the crickets, pat on the head and have a lolipop? (yeah sarcasm, I don't like spoiled brats. Especially on the playground when the bigger kids push littler ones off and their parents say nothing)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#42
#42
FreeNChrist said:
God saw all of your imperfections, mistakes and weaknesses when He placed them on His Son on that cross. And He now remembers them no more. Thank you Jesus. Now when God looks at you He sees the perfect righteousness of His Son.
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Unhelpful.
 
PrynceNY

PrynceNY

Banned
#43
Aug 16, 2016
2,184
62
0
#43
There is nothing secret nor hidden that won't be revealed. Every thought and action a person does throughout their lives is recorded. That goes for the righteous & the wicked.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#44
#44
MessageOfTheCross said:
If a Believer Faith is not placed in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e., The Cross, I.e., The Blood of Jesus, you frustrate the grace of God. You are committing Spiritual Adultery. The Holy Spirit only helps us When the Believers Faith is in Christ and Him Crucified.

Hebrews 10:38-39 King James Version (KJV)[SUP]
38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
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????Sorry how does this relate to the topic?? Don't see the connection.

My faith is in Christ, so not sure how this illuminates the phrase "hides His face".
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#45
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#45
Willie-T said:
News Flash: He doesn't.
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Ezekiel 39​
25Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. 26“They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. 27“When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. 28“Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. 29“I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,” declares the Lord GOD.
Deuteronomy 31​
14Then the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting. 15The LORD appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent. 16The LORD said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17“Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’ 18“But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Some good OT "examples".:)
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#47
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#47
garee said:
God is Spirit and therefore has no literal face .We see His back parts, the working of His Spirit, the hearing of faith .
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God has literal back parts & no face? What chapter & verse is that?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#48
#48
BeyondET said:
Sorry but your way off base if you think after the cross, He still turns his face no not at all, Again it's people who turn from him not him from us after the cross that is.. For He goes out looking for his lost sheep...
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I think you don't understand the meaning behind the phrase. Its not like I am saying God abandons us. So I don't understand your fierce objection to the idea that God does not always has His face upon us.

Jesus said there is 12 hours in a day for a man to work. When God's face is upon us, it is spiritual day and we can have much work done. When God's face is hidden, we are in spiritual darkness.

That causes us to cry out to God. For us to ask God to hold our hands because we can't see where we are going. We can try to do work in a vain attempt to bribe God into turn the light back on, but the work will be shoddy and not blessed by God.

During the times we feel that God turns His face from us. During the times of spiritual drought or darkness, we need to cry out and wait upon the Lord to answer.

Then He will pour His Spirit forth with life giving water and light will come with the rising of the Son, When He turns His face to look upon us again.

If I am off base in this, then I ask you pray and let God show me the error in my thinking and reasoning.
 
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Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#49
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#49
Stephen63 said:
Ezekiel 39​
25Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, “Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. 26“They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. 27“When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. 28“Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. 29“I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,” declares the Lord GOD.
Deuteronomy 31​
14Then the LORD said to Moses, “Behold, the time for you to die is near; call Joshua, and present yourselves at the tent of meeting, that I may commission him.” So Moses and Joshua went and presented themselves at the tent of meeting. 15The LORD appeared in the tent in a pillar of cloud, and the pillar of cloud stood at the doorway of the tent. 16The LORD said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them. 17“Then My anger will be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them and hide My face from them, and they will be consumed, and many evils and troubles will come upon them; so that they will say in that day, ‘Is it not because our God is not among us that these evils have come upon us?’ 18“But I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they will do, for they will turn to other gods.

Some good OT "examples".:)
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As I said, "He doesn't." Did you, perhaps, think you are the 'Israel' He was addressing?" You're not.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#50
#50
PrynceNY said:
There is nothing secret nor hidden that won't be revealed. Every thought and action a person does throughout their lives is recorded. That goes for the righteous & the wicked.
Click to expand...
Okay...,kind of from left field. Would you like to tie this to the conversation...I feel like we are missing a few sentences to be able to see the connection...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#53
#53
Stephen63 said:
Matthew 27:46 ​
New American Standard Bible
About the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI?" that is, "MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?"
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I thought about that verse too. I wondered if Jesus felt at that moment that God had turned His face from Him?

We know that afterwards God answered His prayers and ended His sufferring....but just try and imagine being upon the cross, innocent. Nails through your hands and feet...
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#54
#54
Ariel82 said:
Can't really comment on any of the other comments because I feel like we are talking about two totally different conversations.

What do you think it means for God turns His face from people?

I will tell you what it doesn't mean.

It doesn't mean God has stopped loving you.

It doesn't always mean you did anything grossly wrong.

It is God's way to call us back into a closer relationship with Him, by having us notice that we no longer has His face upon us.

When we have His face upon us the world is clearer, our hearts freer. It is easier to see the path we should tread for His light is bright.

It is the difference between day and night.

I am sorry if you don't understand what I am trying to say, but to say that we are somehow more beloved than David. To say that God no longer uses the same method of correction today as He did in the Old testatment, just rings as false. His Holy Spirit guided His prophets back then also.

If not by turning His face from us, how does God chaste and correct you when you have done wrong?

Or do you hold to the spoiled brat philosophy of a make believe God that allows his kids to do whatever makes them "happy"? Pull the legs off the crickets, pat on the head and have a lolipop? (yeah sarcasm, I don't like spoiled brats. Especially on the playground when the bigger kids push littler ones off and their parents say nothing)
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This is because your trying to keep the OT ways in the NT ways of doing things, like the turning of the face. Because today when things go wrong in our life we think, O God has turned his face, no not at all, things are allowed in our life when we need to be chaste and corrected. It's surely not like how you handle your kids when they start getting loud and acting up. your patience is limited and you get fructstrated and call for a time out why because you've lost control of them and that is the only way you know how to gain control of the house again... God knows of many ways to guide us and correct us and it doesn't involve a time out per say...
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#55
#55
Ariel82 said:
I thought about that verse too. I wondered if Jesus felt at that moment that God had turned His face from Him?
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Well, He did. That's the point. He turned His face from Christ on the cross because of our sins, so that He wouldn't have to turn His face from us.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#56
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#56
Ariel82 said:
I thought about that verse too. I wondered if Jesus felt at that moment that God had turned His face from Him?
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I'm sure He did feel that way, since He took on the same sin that confuses our perceptions. But, Scripture plainly tells us God never, for a second, left Jesus.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#57
#57
Let's focus on this "things are allowed in our life when we need to be chaste and corrected. "

Kids in timeout isn't due to lose of control, but because kids claim to not be doing anything wrong. Timeout is used to make them realize they DID do something wrong.

I make the analogy that God has disciplined me in a similar manner by "turning His face from me."

Nothing major happens that people on the outside can see, but I know in my heart His presence is not with me. If I continue to ignore His correction, then there are major consequences that occur in my life.

That is how God has taught me right and wrong. I try and follow His example when raising my kids. Though I admit to failing at times because I am not God, but the principles are based upon how God teaches me in my own life.

So if He doesn't turn His face from you, how did He discipline you when you wandered away from Him?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#58
#58
Has anyone else read the article? Cuz I would like to hear what your thoughts on it are.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#59
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#59
Ariel82 said:
I thought about that verse too. I wondered if Jesus felt at that moment that God had turned His face from Him?

We know that afterwards God answered His prayers and ended His sufferring....but just try and imagine being upon the cross, innocent. Nails through your hands and feet...
Click to expand...
Jesus died so that we would not be separated from God because of sin. That is the whole point of the cross.

Also I believe that Jesus was experiencing what we think as man concerning God because of sin. Sin distorts our view of God - Jesus took the whole sin of the world on Himself as the Son of Man. He experienced what we do in our minds when sin is on us without Christ.

This is the only time that Jesus referred to the Father as "My God" - like we would as men.

Psalm 22:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.
That is from Psalm 22 and when you look at Psalm 22 we see that God did not in fact forsake Him nor hid His face from Him - even though it "seemed" like He did because of the distortion in our minds that sin brings.

Psalm 22:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

2 Corinthians 5:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

God did not forsake Himself while on the cross - nor hid His face. Those are my thoughts anyway. I know our religious teachings have said otherwise but sometimes it's good to re-visit our church teachings to see of they are in fact true.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#60
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#60
FreeNChrist said:
Well, He did. That's the point. He turned His face from Christ on the cross because of our sins, so that He wouldn't have to turn His face from us.
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5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
 
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