Is It Possible To Backslide

Depleted · Jan 13, 2017

oh

I don't respond to many criticisms and I appreciate you saying "I'm not picking on you". I wrote this thread for information and that there is a higher way then just reading words. So most if not all took it as an attack to their status quo. That was never my intention and never would be. In my opening post, I stated that people didn't backslide, they just haven't inherited His Kingdom yet; again that is not a criticism, just illustrating there is a higher place. Please allow me to post 2 quotes from scripture and believe me, there are many others to substantiate those 2. As well a quote from Emmett Fox, a noted theologian from the early 20th century.
2Cor.5:17..Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Gal.2:20...
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

When once you have accepted the Jesus Christ Message, nothing is ever the same again. All values change radically. The things that one spent time and energy in striving for are felt to be no longer worth the having, while other things that one passed by on the way with scarcely a glance, are discovered to be the only things that really matter."Emmet Fox, The Sermon on The Mount

It is clear that once we have become a new creation, there is no going back. So called back sliding means that those who totally misunderstood the post have never been to the place where they can go back from. So they aren't backsliding, they are simply working their way to being there. The fact that you stated that everyone thought I was wrong, doesn't bother me at all. In fact it is encouragment to me to help me know how Jesus felt with the pharisees. The only time in scripture where He got testy was with them criticizing Him. So I feel that rather than try to understand what I wrote, third millenium pharsees go on the attack. To finish; I am not Jesus but at the same time I am not other than Jesus and so are you and so is everyone else who is on a Christian journey. We are all on that journey and each journey is unique.

Emmet Fox may well be noted, but he wasn't even a Christian theologian. He was part of the New Thought movement. Which tells me why I don't understand you. You're reinventing a god.

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2017

GandalfTheWhite said:

Yes, I agree...I have been reading about Jacob and Esau and I can see the parallels to us new creations in Christ in their lives.

Esau was born first - the natural, earth man - the flesh

Jacob comes second - the 2nd birth for us in Christ. Jacob when being born is holding on to Esau - not wanting to let him go. Jacob becomes afraid of Esau - his twin who was born first. We too can be afraid of our flesh that it will destroy us ( like Jacob was afraid of Esau )

Jacob wrestles with God and finally gives up and He gets a new name - Israel. Jacob/Israel learns to live not by his own strength.

( he leans on his staff the rest of his days after his encounter with God at Bethel - he has no confidence in his flesh but in God's blessing and provision only ) - We too give up ourselves and receive that new name from God. Rev. 2:17

Anyway - I know I am only scratching the surface in this but it is exciting.

goeie dag

gesondheid

alles van die beste

Chester · Jan 13, 2017

Depleted said:

DustyRhodes said:

Thanks, Lauren, for pointing this out -- it helps to understand the OP

GandalfTheWhite · Jan 13, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Yes, I agree...I have been reading about Jacob and Esau and I can see the parallels to us new creations in Christ in their lives.

Esau was born first - the natural, earth man - the flesh

Jacob comes second - the 2nd birth for us in Christ. Jacob when being born is holding on to Esau - not wanting to let him go. Jacob becomes afraid of Esau - his twin who was born first. We too can be afraid of our flesh that it will destroy us ( like Jacob was afraid of Esau )

Jacob wrestles with God and finally gives up and He gets a new name - Israel. Jacob/Israel learns to live not by his own strength.

( he leans on his staff the rest of his days after his encounter with God at Bethel - he has no confidence in his flesh but in God's blessing and provision only ) - We too give up ourselves and receive that new name from God. Rev. 2:17

Anyway - I know I am only scratching the surface in this but it is exciting.

goeie dag

gesondheid

alles van die beste

Your Afrikaans is getting better... one of these days we can chit chat in the Boeretaal (Boer language)

GandalfTheWhite · Jan 13, 2017

Grace777, I am also grateful to see you are studying the parallels. There are so many.

Like the brother of Joseph that sold him to the slave traders was Judah and the Greek name for Judah is Judas.

Judah promised to protect his brother Benjamin. The two tribes that did not split from the 10 tribes of Israel are Judah end Benjamin.

Samson was sold out by the tribe of Judah when he was at the cleft of the rock.

We can go on and on and then only scratch the surface.

If your Afrikaans is fluent I can give you things to study about this brother

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2017

GandalfTheWhite said:

Lol...when I was working with the South African doctors - I got to practice but I haven't used it for 2 years now. Then I only learned what they taught me...

Have a great rest of the day brother.

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2017

GandalfTheWhite said:

I will tell you this story before I go work out.

One day during the Boer War there was a full regiment of British soldiers coming up a hill in South Africa. There was a lone farmer ( boer) at the top of the hill - waving his arms and telling the British to go back to England.

The British general ordered 5 men to go up there and get rid of that one farmer. They went up and over the hill - a bunch of shots were heard and then the farmer came back again and continued to tell them to leave.

The general then says to the captain - send the whole regiment up there after that guy. They all go up and over the hill - they hear all kinds of gun shots and noises.

Then all of a sudden the captain is running back and he says to the general. "Go back, go back - it's a trap. There are two of them!"

Seeing that you are Afrikaans - you can appreciate the meaning of the story...

BeyondET · Jan 13, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

I will tell you this story before I go work out.

One day during the Boer War there was a full regiment of British soldiers coming up a hill in South Africa. There was a lone farmer ( boer) at the top of the hill - waving his arms and telling the British to go back to England.

The British general ordered 5 men to go up there and get rid of that one farmer. They went up and over the hill - a bunch of shots were heard and then the farmer came back again and continued to tell them to leave.

The general then says to the captain - send the whole regiment up there after that guy. They all go up and over the hill - they hear all kinds of gun shots and noises.

Then all of a sudden the captain is running back and he says to the general. "Go back, go back - it's a trap. There are two of them!"

Seeing that you are Afrikaans - you can appreciate the story...

Good Lord, now that's two fierce men indeed

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2017

BeyondET said:

They were "boers"....and that says it all. South Africans know what this means. Guerilla warfare was invented by them.

Stunnedbygrace · Jan 13, 2017

Depleted said:

DustyRhodes said:

I just read his long booklet. There was a lot in it that I agreed with but...it's as if he first argues against self will but then argues for it, then against it again.But the only really bad part I found in the booklet was the idea that we should never be sick. Job directly opposes this. God permitted afflictions, and by satans hand no less, FOR the eternal good of Job and FOR his growth. If you claim we should never be sick, you MUST answer the problem of Job. And Job gives great comfort to me. I agree that God does not cause one of His children to be sick. BUT, He DOES permit satan himself to bring things to us, hard things, that grow our faith. God doesn't just allow it. He doesn't just allow satan to buffet us because, oh well, satan is in charge. As astounding as it sounds, God uses satan...for our good. Satans goal is not our good but Gods' goal is our good, so He somehow turns it to good, to grow our faith, confound our presumptuousness, and so much more.

It seems it should cause us fear that God sometimes permits satan to buffet us, but it should bring relief, actually, because in the two instances of it I have found, satan has to have Gods' permission first, as with Job, and also with peter (satan has asked permission to sift you like wheat.) But what happens when wheat is sifted? All that isn't true wheat falls out and what remains is purer than it was before. Now if you don't want to be purer than before but only want to never die, that is another problem and another discussion.

dcontroversal · Jan 13, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Not hardly...nice try to fit your works for into the mix............

dcontroversal · Jan 13, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

The anointing of Saul was indicative of being a KING led by God for the nation of Israel....the spirit leaving SAUL was God stepping aside and NO LONGER leading SAUL as King of Israel.....no where is it indicative of salvation or a lack thereof......which is worse....failing to kill AGAG and keeping the choicest of the flock or KILLING URIAH and taking his wife.....? Serious.......

eternally-gratefull · Jan 13, 2017

Not sure why people are using saul as an example.

1. He was anointed KING of Israel. That does not mean he was saved.

2. If he was saved, it never said he lost salvation, He never even lost the kingship. David was anointed king Yet even he KNEW Saul was Gods anointed

2 Sam 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]So David said to him, “How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?” [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then David called one of the young men and said, “Go near, and execute him!” And he struck him so that he died. [SUP]16 [/SUP]So David said to him, “Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’”

ie, David was not really king until AFTER saul died.

If anything, This proves eternal security, because no matter how far Saul fell do to lack of faith in God in areas of his life. He was still the anointed of God"

3. Saul was not killed by the enemy, He killed himself

4. The HS did not permanenty indwell people in the OT, in fact he did not indwell all believers, Only certain ones, to do Gods will. And he came and left as he wished, So to use this to say someone lost salvation is a pretty weak argument.

dcontroversal · Jan 13, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Not sure why people are using saul as an example.

1. He was anointed KING of Israel. That does not mean he was saved.

2. If he was saved, it never said he lost salvation, He never even lost the kingship. David was anointed king Yet even he KNEW Saul was Gods anointed

2 Sam 1:[SUP]14 [/SUP]So David said to him, “How was it you were not afraid to put forth your hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed?” [SUP]15 [/SUP]Then David called one of the young men and said, “Go near, and execute him!” And he struck him so that he died. [SUP]16 [/SUP]So David said to him, “Your blood is on your own head, for your own mouth has testified against you, saying, ‘I have killed the Lord’s anointed.’”

ie, David was not really king until AFTER saul died.

If anything, This proves eternal security, because no matter how far Saul fell do to lack of faith in God in areas of his life. He was still the anointed of God"

3. Saul was not killed by the enemy, He killed himself

4. The HS did not permanenty indwell people in the OT, in fact he did not indwell all believers, Only certain ones, to do Gods will. And he came and left as he wished, So to use this to say someone lost salvation is a pretty weak argument.

Saul makes me think of the one in the N.T. that was cut loose for the destruction of the flesh that he may learn not to blaspheme.....his demise did not fully come until he consulted the witch of ENDOR which was a death penalty under the law........

eternally-gratefull · Jan 13, 2017

dcontroversal said:

Thats what Pride does to you. I know many christians who have fallen due to pride. they start to lack faith in god in areas of their life. and go back to the old way of doing things, Only to fail miserably. I have seen some come back after hitting rock bottom. I have seen others never have a chance to come back because they either killed themselves like Saul, Or were killed doing something.

Grace777x70 · Jan 13, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Amen...and the other deceiving part is - they could just as well stayed in church and went every time the door was open. They still pastored and preached. They still read their bible and prayed.

They are living their own life - it's just that they are showing the "good side of flesh" - their self-effort and achievements. There is good flesh and bad flesh - but in the end it's all just flesh.

Stunnedbygrace · Jan 13, 2017

I think I was trying to sort of...point out that we have instances of Gods' Spirit with someone who He nevertheless became displeased with later because of unbelief. (If Israel in the desert hadn't let unbelief slip in after all they saw - the red sea, etc., He wouldn't have been displeased with them).

And if Saul had obeyed Him, He would not have become displeased with Saul.

It looks like He was displeased for different reasons in these two examples, but really, I see His displeasure as being over mistrust and unbelief and here is why: Israel mistrusted Him which led to their disobedience. And Saul did not really believe full obedience was necessary (unbelief) or he would have obeyed.

So some might say God is displeased at disobedience and another might say, well, yes, but the root of the disobedience (unbelief) was the problem.

I agree that the Blood covers our sins. I have never been able to wrap my head around how the Blood could cover unbelief though. This is where I am in my own walk with God. This is what I struggle with. The true fount of disobedience is unbelief at something He has said. (You don't eat something that someone says will poison and kill you UNLESS you don't believe they told you the truth. You don't collect more than what you are told to (the manna) UNLESS you mistrust that more will be given when needed, as you were told.) And it doesn't quite seat itself correctly in my mind to say that the Blood covers unbelief. I actually CAN see it covering areas of unbelief initially, but to continue in those areas of unbelief because you have found a deal to cheat death by the Blood and think that unbelief doesn't matter because you're covered, this is to me the worst thing that could happen to a man. It is just compromise with the world in many little ways because in your mind, your unbelief is covered. Belief and trust is the one thing He demands. Partial belief, like believing I will live forever, and partial unbelief, like worrying over how I will get more money to provide for my needs, is a double mind to me. I think it is dangerous for the soul of a man. I can't understand the doctrine that would say the Blood covers even unbelief. And believe me, I know the corner that it looks like I've worked myself into, but I think others have worked themselves into the opposite corner.

My corner is that the Blood CAN'T cover unbelief.
Their corner is that the Blood covers unbelief.

It seems to me a deal to cheat death and I think He will cancel a deal to cheat death.
This is not a surface thing. It can't be solved in a surface way.

I am being honest about where I am currently.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 13, 2017

People need to realize there is a HUGE difference between unbelief in God to take care of me in a particular area of my life. and unbelief that God can save me.

A baby christian is not going to trust God in every area if their life. if they did, they would become sinless immediately.

Sin is caused by unbelief, Jesus paid for sin, This (except fot the gospel) Jesus paid for unbelief.

Stunnedbygrace · Jan 13, 2017

Okay, I get that you believe unbelief is covered by the Blood. I believe unrepented and continual unbelief is cut off. I don't want to get into the cut off line because I have no idea what the cutoff line is. I don't live in fear because I think that even Gods' patience will one day end - I run my race of trust with joy and I want to be found in belief when He returns. My trouble with the doctrine that God now does not demand belief and trust, and that He excuses it is not some impertinent whim on my part.

HisHolly · Jan 13, 2017

Yes and no.. we are warned not to be like Israel who continued in unbelief and never entered His rest.. Bible says all those things were written as a warning so that we wouldn't do them

eternally-gratefull said:

Is It Possible To Backslide

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