What causes God to hide his face?

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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when our children were being raised we mistakenly followed this line of reasoning. if they disobeyed us, we withheld our demonstrations of love and acceptance 4 them thinking thats what God does w/ us in order to love us 'better' so we get closer to Him and do what He wants. :confused: :eek:

ive found out 'no', this is not what God does. withholding love just shows love is with held and conditional and thats not love at all. not even children want or need that and even they know the difference. its selfish human reasoning and our kids turn away just as all humans will. we all want and seek unconditional love., thats how God made us. its not that we love God but that He loved us. we love God because He first loved us. cant love him until we know with confidence He loves us.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Ariel82,

Have you ever looked at Romans 1:21-32 and how the behavior of the unbeliever draws him/her further and further from God to the point that they become reprobate?


Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.


They know God (or know of Him), but they do not glorify Him and they become unthankful. Then they become empty in their thinking and reasonings.

Result: foolish heart becomes darkened.



Rom 1:22-24 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:


Those whose foolish heart is darkened profess themselves to be wise. In reality they become fools. They change the glory of God into an image.

Result: God gives them over to uncleanness and they then dishonor their own bodies amongst themselves.



rom 1:25-26 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:


Those who are given over to uncleanness change the truth of God into a lie; they worship the creation more than the Creator.

Result: God gives them over to vile affections and they change the natural into that which is against nature.



Rom 1:27-28 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


Once given over to vile affections they work that which is unseemly and receive in themselves the adequate recompence of their error.

Result: God gives them over to a reprobate mind because they do not like to retain God in their knowledge.



Romans 1:29-32 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Those who are reprobate in mind are filled with all these horrible behaviors. They seek out and have pleasure in those who behave in the same manner.

Is it any wonder why believers who want nothing more than to live in the light of the presence of God are so reviled?


And please note, people walk away from God and at some point, the further and further they walk away, God lets go (He gives them up). At each stage, there is a boundary which is crossed by the person who is given up.

Before you claim I am not on point in regards to the OP, please take a moment to reflect on the passage in Romans and how it might relate to the issue of God hiding His face. Thank you.
Actually I was going to point out God's grace in calling back home Those who walk away.

Does God hide His face from such people?

Yes He does. Its part of unbelievers being under the law and it's consequences.

Is it eternal or through mercy and grace can even those people be saved through repentance and the Gospel?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
when our children were being raised we mistakenly followed this line of reasoning. if they disobeyed us, we withheld our demonstrations of love and acceptance 4 them thinking thats what God does w/ us in order to love us 'better' so we get closer to Him and do what He wants. :confused: :eek:

ive found out 'no', this is not what God does. withholding love just shows love is with held and conditional and thats not love at all. not even children want or need that and even they know the difference. its selfish human reasoning and our kids turn away just as all humans will. we all want and seek unconditional love., thats how God made us. its not that we love God but that He loved us. we love God because He first loved us. cant love him until we know with confidence He loves us.
Good post...That made me think of an old saying that I have heard. People used to say that you should ignore a baby and let it cry it out or you will cause it to become spoiled. That was a common misconception, nowadays studies have shown that going to a crying baby allows it to build trust and self confidence because it knows that you love it and care for it and will be there when it needs you. You don't have to always pick it up out of it's crib sometimes all it needs to know is that you are close by.

I think this is how God is...He is always there when we cry out to him...he may not always pick us up, but he is there and ready to pick us up when we need him to. He is not hiding from us. He is our Father and we can trust that when we call upon him he will be there for us in all things.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,278
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Good post...That made me think of an old saying that I have heard. People used to say that you should ignore a baby and let it cry it out or you will cause it to become spoiled. That was a common misconception, nowadays studies have shown that going to a crying baby allows it to build trust and self confidence because it knows that you love it and care for it and will be there when it needs you. You don't have to always pick it up out of it's crib sometimes all it needs to know is that you are close by.

I think this is how God is...He is always there when we cry out to him...he may not always pick us up, but he is there and ready to pick us up when we need him to. He is not hiding from us. He is our Father and we can trust that when we call upon him he will be there for us in all things.
Oh, how I hated that, leave the baby to cry admonition, don't go to her or pick her up stuff. I have four younger sisters and sometimes had to flee the common area because I could not stand to hear them crying while I was being told to do nothing. Their cries would make me cry...
 
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Ariel82

Guest
when our children were being raised we mistakenly followed this line of reasoning. if they disobeyed us, we withheld our demonstrations of love and acceptance 4 them thinking thats what God does w/ us in order to love us 'better' so we get closer to Him and do what He wants. :confused: :eek:

ive found out 'no', this is not what God does. withholding love just shows love is with held and conditional and thats not love at all. not even children want or need that and even they know the difference. its selfish human reasoning and our kids turn away just as all humans will. we all want and seek unconditional love., thats how God made us. its not that we love God but that He loved us. we love God because He first loved us. cant love him until we know with confidence He loves us.
I don't understand your reasoning.

Even if we don't "demonstrate our love" (which must refer to hugs, and other displays of love)that doesn't mean we ever stop loving or accepting our children.

How do you believe God chastens and disciplines His children?

Do you believe God never shows disapproval of His children's actions?

Do you believe it better to let children continue to be selfish, not share, hit their siblings to get their way, steal any toys even if it's not theirs because they WANT IT?

Not disciplining children is a sign of people's lack of love for both their children and God. Discipline teaches us what is expected of us and of how to place others needs before our own wants. Outer discipline should promote self discipline and is a demonstration of love.

Not talking about beating your kids, but more about practices like timeout, writing letters of apology, apologize to those you harm, etc.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
Actually I was going to point out God's grace in calling back home Those who walk away.

Does God hide His face from such people?

Yes He does. Its part of unbelievers being under the law and it's consequences.

Is it eternal or through mercy and grace can even those people be saved through repentance and the Gospel?
Straw woman.

So are you saying God waits until the unbeliever repents and starts reading the gospel then he shows he face to them..
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Good post...That made me think of an old saying that I have heard. People used to say that you should ignore a baby and let it cry it out or you will cause it to become spoiled. That was a common misconception, nowadays studies have shown that going to a crying baby allows it to build trust and self confidence because it knows that you love it and care for it and will be there when it needs you. You don't have to always pick it up out of it's crib sometimes all it needs to know is that you are close by.

I think this is how God is...He is always there when we cry out to him...he may not always pick us up, but he is there and ready to pick us up when we need him to. He is not hiding from us. He is our Father and we can trust that when we call upon him he will be there for us in all things.
I,think God checks on us like a loving mom would....do we have a dirty diaper? Are we hungry? Are we scared? Are we fighting sleep?

I normally didn't let my babies cry for too long. However when they became toddler, I expected them to learn to sleep when it was bedtime. Read a story, comfort them, etc but letting them rule the house and stay up past 10pm and sleep in until noon? How does that help them learn?

Kids need boundaries and rules.

We as adults like to know right from wrong also.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Straw woman.

So are you saying God waits until the unbeliever repents and starts reading the gospel then he shows he face to them..
Nope just shows you didn't understand my statements.

Literary terms don't mean the same thing as we use in every day language.

God "hides His face" from people doesn't mean He turns His back on them, that He ignores them or that He doesn't see,what they are doing.

God allowing "His face to shine upon" them means something different then assumptions also.

Then the issue of how the Gospel saves is also another topic,
 
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Ariel82

Guest
Let me make it bigger.....cuz so many people miss it.

1. God does not hide His face from people who call out to Him.
 
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BeyondET

Guest
Do you only read half of my posts?
you said even those people can be saved, So I ask again how does the process get moving, does something happen to the unbeliever that gets the ball Rollin and what is that??
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
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I,think God checks on us like a loving mom would....do we have a dirty diaper? Are we hungry? Are we scared? Are we fighting sleep?

I normally didn't let my babies cry for too long. However when they became toddler, I expected them to learn to sleep when it was bedtime. Read a story, comfort them, etc but letting them rule the house and stay up past 10pm and sleep in until noon? How does that help them learn?

Kids need boundaries and rules.

We as adults like to know right from wrong also.
Yes, kids need boundaries and rules... but I don't think that means hiding from them or withholding or not showing them love.

Just like children we all need boundaries and rules...or correction....it's the same with God when he chastises us...

I don't hide from my children or quit showing them love when they are misbehaving...I correct them and explain to them why I had to correct them. I don't see how ignoring them or acting like I don't care about them would help them to learn anything.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Let me make it bigger.....cuz so many people miss it.

1. God does not hide His face from people who call out to Him.
looks like youve answered your own question hmmmmmmmmmmm
 
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BeyondET

Guest
Let me make it bigger.....cuz so many people miss it.

1. God does not hide His face from people who call out to Him.
I'll tell you what happens to the unbeliever the sinner who is running a mock of things, One day out of the blue God shows His face to that person and Behold we have another believer, thats how faith starts not by repenting first or reading the bible..
 
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Ariel82

Guest
2. The term "God hides His face" does not mean God has blinded Himself. He still sees what is happening. He can still hear if people repent. It means that God takes away His Hedge of protection from around the person so that they are allowed to suffer some of the consequences of their sins.

3. God doesn't hide His face from Born again believers because they have the Holy Spirit in their hearts and that guides and leads them. There may be times when we are tested, but God warns us of those times before hand.

4. He hides His face from unbelievers who say they don't need Jesus or the Gospel. They believe they can earn their way to heaven through their own works (common theme in Buddhism, Islam, the Pharisees and some Christian circles)
 
Mar 7, 2016
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@ariel82 hmm sorry am i stupid or did you just ask this question so you could rant :D
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Ariel82 said:
Is it eternal or through mercy and grace can even those people be saved through repentance and the Gospel?
The unbeliever is saved the same way we were saved. After all, we were somewhere on that rung shown in Rom 1 at the point we were born again:

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

Hear the gospel; don’t hold (restrain) the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18) but allow the Word to reach the heart where God can bring the increase. It is God Who works in our hearts to bring the promise to fruition.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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2. The term "God hides His face" does not mean God has blinded Himself. He still sees what is happening. He can still hear if people repent. It means that God takes away His Hedge of protection from around the person so that they are allowed to suffer some of the consequences of their sins.

3. God doesn't hide His face from Born again believers because they have the Holy Spirit in their hearts and that guides and leads them. There may be times when we are tested, but God warns us of those times before hand.

4. He hides His face from unbelievers who say they don't need Jesus or the Gospel. They believe they can earn their way to heaven through their own works (common theme in Buddhism, Islam, the Pharisees and some Christian circles)
God also chastens the believer (Heb 12) if/when we stray off the path.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
looks like youve answered your own question hmmmmmmmmmmm
Not even close, since that was never the question. Just tired of people throwing up that false notion.