Don't choke the BABY! Let new Christians drink their milk before you force feed them

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh my goodness this link is GOOD, ariel!!
I'm not done reading it yet, but forgot to say that I cracked up when I read the first on Pauls list because EG has that one DOWN PAT for us.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Well dang...I thought he was going to go over the laying on of hands...
But it was very, very good.
But I'm like you ariel, I don't understand one of those elementary things...

 

[Grace777x70]

I think the important thing to remember is that the list of "elementary principles" are in Hebrews 6:1-2.

Just before Chapter 6 - the author is saying that those that partake of the milk is not accustomed to the "word of righteousness". Solid food is knowing the word of righteousness. Hebrews 5:13-14

Those trying to create and maintain their own righteousness by what they do or don't do - are still spiritual babies. They are not established in the "gift of righteousness" yet - which only comes by grace through faith in what Christ has already done. That He alone is our righteousness.

The Jews were notorious for trying to establish their own righteousness by the Law of Moses. Romans 10:1-5 - Remember this is the book written to Hebrews.

Heb. 5:14 - But solid food ( word of righteousness ) is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil ( Greek word for evil = bad, useless, worthless ).

The mature person in Christ knows when they are practicing the deeds "of His righteousness" which is the good - or doing deeds of righteousness "to be righteous" which are bad, evil, useless or worthless. This is the evil or useless side of Heb. 5:14

 

[PeterJens]

Dead works - Only mentioned in hebrews in the whole of scripture in two places Heb 6, Heb 9.

The book is addressed to Israel. The Jews specifically were interested in walking without being
defiled, which is why the pharisees washed their hands, while Jesus found it not important.

A summary of this self righteousness was the term "dead works". It is legalism in its purest sense,
self justification based on how you behave, not on your relationship with God.
If you do not believe you are a sinner in need of saving how can you be saved.

And if you believe the law is just a means of justification, how can your conscience be cleansed
and made whole from not looking at the law only as a means of self justification.

Interestingly many here have this problem 100%, and cannot even read the law without condemnation
and guilt, extrapolating the law so just reading it can be sin, or doing something for yourself rather
than God, is sin. In this world you have to justify your actions in terms of faith and why it is
essential not for you but for God, before guilt does not arise.

A common conversation is a list of how today they feel guilty of sin because they got angry,
swore, coveted something, lusted after something, indulged themselves etc. So rather than being
free from these things, they are dominating their thoughts and actions every day. It should be
a testimony they are not in a good place, but rather they regard this as a deeper revelation of
their depravity and illustrates their greater spiritual maturity. If this is how Jesus walked and
this is where spiritual growth leads us to, how was Jesus ever sinless?

 

[Ariel82]

Naive question alert:
Are those five things what you consider milk topics?

They are the ones Paul lists.

 

[PeterJens]

Galatians 5
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
******
Dead works we need to repent off.

I agree these are actions we need to repent of, if we do them.
The reason why I think the writer used the term dead works specifically for the Hebrews, was
because they knew what sin was and knew they should repent of it, but they were interested
specifically in self justification.

In Heb 9, it talks of ones conscience being cleansed of dead works.
Now if it said ones conscience is cleansed of guilt of sin, I can see this.

So the only way it seemed to work for me, was to say the legalist need cleansing from
seeing the law as a means of self justification, which contaminated all their interaction and
relationship with God, so they walked in love rather than in, this is a good idea, God will save
me because I have done this and not be judged.

Otherwise why did the write not just say a conscience cleansed of the guilt of sin.
I say this because elsewhere we are told our consciences are cleansed from guilt, and we
do repent of our sinful actions.

 

[Ariel82]

After sleeping on it, I believe point 1 is the gospel message (specifically that only faith in Jesus and his death on the cross for the remission of sins can save anyone.) and many of us don't go beyond talking about that to most people.

That is the basic foundation and I wish I had more time to elaborate.

However to the laying on of hands, I remember the scriptures talking about how the Apostles layed hands on Paul before sending him on his mission trip to the gentile. Also Paul mentions Timothy having received his gifts and office through the laying on of hands. There is another scripture of the elders laying on of hands and announcing of oil someone who is sick.

Those are the three that come to mind right away,but we also have all the times Jesus laid His hands on people and they were healed.

If I get I chance, i will find and post the scriptures.

 

[notuptome]

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Christians must grow. They grow by feeding on the word of God. They do not grow by feeding on church or denominational doctrines. They grow be learning more about Jesus. Learning to trust Jesus more and more because of what is written in the word of God and made trustworthy by the working of the Holy Spirit.

The first thing that our adversary does is to flood the new Christian with a never ending list of things to do. Christ only wants one thing from the new Christian. To love Him more. Then love the brethren. Then witness to the lost.

Just think back to the time when you were first saved. The joy of salvation and the desire to tell every one you encountered about Jesus and how He saved you from your sins. Consumed with an unction to tell how wonderful it is to have your sins forgiven and to be assured of heaven. Sing and shout for there is no doubt. Salvation full and free because of what Christ has done for me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ariel82]

Can we discuss the milk?

What do you know of the elementary principles?

1. foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2. the doctrine of baptisms
3. laying on of hands
4. resurrection of the dead
5. eternal judgment.

2.
Baptisms: water baptism of repentence (death) and Holy Spirit baptism that empowers the believer to live a godly life, renew the mind and do the good works God created us to do. (resurrection, New birth)

4. Resurrection of the dead will occur when Jesus returns to judge the world. We will be given new bodies that will be eternal. New heaven, New earth, no seas or suffering. God will wipe every year from our eyes. See revelation 20 and 21 and another verse i have to look up.

5. Eternal judgment. Just as there is a heaven, there is a hell. We want everyone to join us in Heaven but some will continue to reject God and rebell. They will be destroyed. Satan, death, the false prophet and the beast will be cast in hell. However, God will save His children. Back to 1....you are not made a child of God by your own works but by what Jesus did for you upon the cross. Die the flesh and be raised again by the Spirit to a renewed life as a Child of God.

(scriptures pending)

Okay does that make any sense?

 

[Ariel82]

A good church can help people grow. One of the enemy's tactics is to isolate new believers from the Body of Christ or get them to attend a corrupt church to keep them from learning and growing in the Body of Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

It could also mean that Hebrews 6:1-3 is talking about the Jewish ideas of the Messiah ( Christ ) as seen in the law of Moses and from their traditions from the rabbi's.

If we view this book of Hebrews with our western evangelical "Christianized" minds - we might miss what the author is trying to say to these Jewish people. This is a distinct possibility.


Hebrews 6:1-3 The author was saying these are elementary things, and we need to go past these things to maturity. In context, the more mature things he was speaking of are detailed in the last few verses of Hebrews 5:13-14. There, the deeper thing he was urging us on to was "the word of righteousness."

If we used the westernized view and we determined that it is all about the application of it in Christian terms "after" we come to Jesus as we know Him as gentiles in Christ - then I would offer this view of "Laying on of hands"

The laying on of hands can be interpreted in two ways. There is a doctrine of imparting spiritual gifts and anointing, such as the anointing to heal, through the laying on of our hands (Mark 16:18). Paul and others would do this too. ( Acts 28:8 )

There was the time where they "laid hands" on Paul and Silas before they went out to preach the gospel. ( Acts 13:3 )

There was the time that Peter and John "laid hands" on those in Samaria to receive the Holy Spirit ( which indicates an event after they had received the word of God when Philip had preached Christ to them ) Acts 8:14-17

Paul did the exact same thing with the Ephesians - he laid his hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit after they believed in Christ. ( Acts 19:1-6 )

Then there is also ordination by the laying on of hands. In ordination, gifts are also imparted (1 Tim. 4:14 and 2 Tim. 1:6), and honor and recognition are also conferred on the one being ordained (1 Tim. 5:22).

The apostles also "laid hands" on the deacons after they were picked out by the people. ( Acts 6:6 )

The laying on of hands seems to be a way of bringing about a blessing of some sorts depending on the need and circumstance. Perhaps another term would be "a releasing of goodness" on people?

Jesus was constantly laying His hands for blessing - for healing , for blessing little children.

 

[BeyondET]

1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

Christians must grow. They grow by feeding on the word of God. They do not grow by feeding on church or denominational doctrines. They grow be learning more about Jesus. Learning to trust Jesus more and more because of what is written in the word of God and made trustworthy by the working of the Holy Spirit.

The first thing that our adversary does is to flood the new Christian with a never ending list of things to do. Christ only wants one thing from the new Christian. To love Him more. Then love the brethren. Then witness to the lost.

Just think back to the time when you were first saved. The joy of salvation and the desire to tell every one you encountered about Jesus and how He saved you from your sins. Consumed with an unction to tell how wonderful it is to have your sins forgiven and to be assured of heaven. Sing and shout for there is no doubt. Salvation full and free because of what Christ has done for me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

A good post indeed, made me think of something else with people who become new believers per say.. sometimes the adversary will turn up the heat on them, and try to pound on them because they are not well seasons yet. So Patience, understanding, and a gentle approach in the beginning of a new born Christians life can be of great value upon their journeys...

 

[FreeNChrist]

Can we discuss the milk?

What do you know of the elementary principles?

1. foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

An excerpt from Anthony Carter’s book, Blood Work.

"Dead works are the works of our hands. These are works of self-righteousness, and they are appropriately called “dead” works because they lead to death. Twice the book of Proverbs says, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death” (14:12; 16:25). We rely on work. We get significance from our work. We like a job that is well done. And well we should, because God created us to work. Yet all of our labors are useless, and thus dead, if they do not point to the worship of God. Any significance and esteem we attain from our labor apart from the end of bringing God glory and establishing His rule upon the earth is misplaced. Such godless labor may appear good to us and even receive the applause of others, but heaven finds it repulsive and defiled by sin. In other words, unless we have been washed in the blood of Christ, all our good deeds are worthless, useless, vain, and dead."

The rest of the excerpt can be found HERE.

 

[Grace777x70]

There was a lot to do with the "laying on of hands" when I looked at it.

If I look at it that Hebrews 6:2 is talking about our western view of talking about "after" we come to Christ and Hebrews is not talking about the "Jewish ways" - I would look at these points.

Baptisms/washings can be tricky too - because there is only one real baptism as viewed by Paul.

Hebrews 6:2 says there is the doctrine of baptisms (plural). Eph. 4:5 says there is only one baptism. But this is speaking of the baptism by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ ( 1 Cor. 12:13 )). The point in Eph. 4:5 is that there aren’t different bodies of Christ. We have all been put into the one body of Christ. But there are more than this one baptism.

There is water baptism where a new believer goes through the rite of being immersed in water to symbolize in the natural what has taken place in the spiritual. In the spiritual, the new believer is immediately immersed (exactly what the transliterated Greek word “baptizo” means) into Christ’s body (1 Cor. 12:13 ).

This baptism is definitely different from the baptism John and Jesus prophesied because the persons doing the baptisms are different, and the elements into which we are being baptized are different. The Holy Spirit is the Baptizer into the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13 ), but Jesus is the Baptizer with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:11, Mark 1:8, and John 1:23).

On the Jewish side of things - the "washings/baptisms" were things done according to the law of Moses of which the author of Hebrews talks about a little later in Heb. 9:10 where the exact same Greek word is used as in Heb. 6:2

The NASB actually translates this out as "instructions of washings" - relating to the Jewish law of Moses and traditions.

Hebrews 6:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.


Hebrews 9:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation.

Here Jesus Himself uses the same Greek word "washings/baptisms" in relating to the Jewish law and traditions.

Mark 7:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

 

[lastofall]

[for me anyway] verse 1 of chapter 6 in Hebrews the Holy Spirit of Truth is speaking exactly to those that are yet unskilled in the Word of righteousness, that they have need to progress from basics, from those matter's that ought to be common knowledge for them already.

 

[Ariel82]

[for me anyway] verse 1 of chapter 6 in Hebrews the Holy Spirit of Truth is speaking exactly to those that are yet unskilled in the Word of righteousness, that they have need to progress from basics, from those matter's that ought to be common knowledge for them already.

It is important for the foundation to be laid in Christ or you might end up building a house on sand.

 

[Depleted]

They are the ones Paul lists.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a smart alex, (which is good, because I'd fail this time. lol) I really thought those verses were saying, "Now that we got the elementary stuff down, let's go on to...."

And then the things he goes on to are the things you're saying are elementary. (I thought that was the advanced-beginners stuff. ) So, this is me, who hasn't read Hebrews in this century. That's not what he's saying there?

 

[Willie-T]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a smart alex, (which is good, because I'd fail this time. lol) I really thought those verses were saying, "Now that we got the elementary stuff down, let's go on to...."

And then the things he goes on to are the things you're saying are elementary. (I thought that was the advanced-beginners stuff. ) So, this is me, who hasn't read Hebrews in this century. That's not what he's saying there?

This is one of the reasons THIS is often one of the versions I consult:

Hebrews 6 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

6 With this in mind, we should stop going over the elementary truths about Christ and move on to topics for more mature people. We shouldn’t repeat the basics about turning away from the useless things we did and the basics about faith in God. 2 We shouldn’t repeat the basic teachings about such things as baptisms, setting people apart for holy tasks, dead people coming back to life, and eternal judgment. 3 If God permits, we will do this.

 

[Ariel82]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a smart alex, (which is good, because I'd fail this time. lol) I really thought those verses were saying, "Now that we got the elementary stuff down, let's go on to...."

And then the things he goes on to are the things you're saying are elementary. (I thought that was the advanced-beginners stuff. ) So, this is me, who hasn't read Hebrews in this century. That's not what he's saying there?

Never read it like that...,the meat is being able to discern between good and evil. The milk is the foundation that Paul says he says "not lay again the foundation" which implies they have already been laid thus the milk he refers to earlier.

Hebrews 5
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrews 6
​ Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

 

[Ariel82]

Is alright Lynn. Elementary school starts with Kindergarten and since someone on this forum told me that I had the maturity of a kindergartener, you can be my classmate buddy.