Don't choke the BABY! Let new Christians drink their milk before you force feed them

[royalscot]

Royal Scot we haven't even touch on the new covenant, since there is still discussion of what repentance and dead works truly entitles.

I have stated that the Hebrews had to repent from BOTH the works of the flesh (which leads to death) and works of the law (which doesn't save anyone) and instead turn to faith towards God (which is the gospel).

Perhaps it got lost in the conversation or didn't get posted. I will check. Technology does that sometimes.

there is your problem , you dont live under an old covenant. so makes ,no difference ,if you know what an old covenant was or how they led there life.
for example
when jesus was on earth.
these jews did not believe jesus was the saviour, and was rejected by a clean people , who thought, they knew better that god, this clean people also stated that god was there god and only there god. hence new covenant.

The Holy Spirit Falls on the Gentiles
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

the new covenant. is the covenant that is in place now, (yesterday, today, tomorrow.etc)
and my last post touched on that. it was the history that a new covenant came to being understood,

the question the milk drinkers need answered is, how dose this affect me. and what do i need to know.

6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49my salvation states nothing about jewish regulations . to clean or uncleanit also dose not mention, that these other nations ,have there own government body ,that governs law of the land.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.1John 3

if the milk drinker, has not got a clear understanding, to a new covenant.

then problems will follow, with free will, again stated in my last post, there will be conflict in the spiritual.

no condemnation v condemnation.

 

[Ariel82]

Points to consider: Does ceasing to sin save anyone? Is a sinless life required before we can come to Christ? Do you need to become sinless before you can believe in Christ?

How is this relevant to the conversation?

It's like a sore point that has a big bandaid on it that you like to peel off and poke at ever so often. You don't like sinless perfection doctrine. How long will you keep that wound open? Give it to God. Not everyone who disagrees with you believes this doctrine.

 

[Ariel82]

Royal Scot what is the difference between condemnation and conviction?

 

[Willie-T]

How is this relevant to the conversation?

It's like a sore point that has a big bandaid on it that you like to peel off and poke at ever so often. You don't like sinless perfection doctrine. How long will you keep that wound open? Give it to God. Not everyone who disagrees with you believes this doctrine.

Trying to run from it, or dismiss the subject will not change the fact that you are attempting to build a foundation on an erroneous understanding of what Jesus asked people to do way back when this all began. He was not telling them that if they quit sinning, it would result in Salvation for them.

He was telling them to change their thinking that killing a lamb or getting wet every year was going to do a thing for them in the New Covenant He was establishing. He was telling them that they needed to Change Their Thinking, and trust in Him.... not the old law they had gotten used to.

 

[royalscot]

Royal Scot what is the difference between condemnation and conviction?

who appointed me judge.

42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10

 

[Ariel82]

2 Corinthians 10
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

 

[Ariel82]

What is wrong with the statement that you should admit that you are a sinner in need of a savior?

That is the foundational statement...admitting we need God and can't do it ourselves. Basic bottle statement.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ariel, I don't think you are trying to build erroneously and I'm enjoying what you have to say, so just continue and don't be disturbed. I'm listening avidly, please continue, sister.

 

[royalscot]

What is wrong with the statement that you should admit that you are a sinner in need of a savior?

That is the foundational statement...admitting we need God and can't do it ourselves. Basic bottle statement.

that were you are wrong , the bible quoted stated, there is a saviour, when did it ask, what did this saviour do for you, john 3 etc

not what law, you got your definition to what a sinner is.

 

[royalscot]

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

 

[plainguy]

What is wrong with the statement that you should admit that you are a sinner in need of a savior?That is the foundational statement...admitting we need God and can't do it ourselves. Basic bottle statement.

Luke 8:13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven but beat his breast and said .. God, have mercy on me a sinner." We are told that this man went home justified before God.

​

 

[Ariel82]

that were you are wrong , the bible quoted stated, there is a saviour, when did it ask, what did this saviour do for you, john 3 etc

not what law, you got your definition to what a sinner is.

I find it ironic that you condemn and falsely accuse me of teaching things that I do not believe, while stating that Jesus did not come to condemn.

 

[royalscot]

I find it ironic that you condemn and falsely accuse me of teaching things that I do not believe, while stating that Jesus did not come to condemn.

who appointed me , govern er, to how you think.

it is already clear , from your posts, you don t have a clue , what is being said to you.

 

[Grace777x70]

The Pharisees and scribes had many sins that Jesus pointed out: hyprocrisy, unbelief of Jesus as Messiah, belief that their Abrahamic blood would save them, etc.

However we are not scribes or pharisees, what does God call us to repent from now?

How would you explain the gospel message to an unbeliever?

I'm back - so I will attempt to answer your questions.

God calls us to repent which is our own way of thinking and doing things and instead to rely on the gospel of the grace of Christ for all things in this life and eternity. Jesus "after" John said to "Repent and believe the gospel". Mark 1:15

How does one explain the gospel to an unbeliever?

Thank God we have word-for-word accounts of the real gospel being preached. ( You will see that it is drastically different then some of our current evangelical ways )

Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance ( changing our mind - the way we think ) concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ to Cornelius ..no word used for repentence was said.

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

They were not told to "repent" here.

I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon as they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the Jewish Christians when he went back because he went into a gentile's house and preached the gospel to them...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"

[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was their repentance even though the word "repent" was not used?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus and in His complete forgiveness of sins.

This is the true gospel message.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance.

New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.

Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent" was voiced here either by Paul...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God."

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them and yet "they did repent".


So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind ( change your way of thinking and rely on God only for things dealing with your life) and turn to God and believe in Jesus and what He has already done.

This reliance upon Christ will have "fruits" of an exchanged life and yes - This will reflect in how we view sinning - of every sort - from having malice and slandering others in the body of Christ to living the homosexual lifestyle.

These should be the fruit of His life being manifested in and through us as the Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us. This is where we see the "fruit" of repentance. Fruit is not the "root" of repentance.

Fruit of an exchanged life comes after we have "repented " - changed our thinking to rely on Christ's work only for salvation.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Trying to "demand the fruit of repentance" before "repenting" - is like trying to demand someone to produce an egg ( fruit ) before the chicken ( repentance to rely on what Christ has done ) has been created.

 

[royalscot]

And God said to Abraham, "As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations.10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.11 You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised. Every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring,13 both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."Genesis 17


Institution of the Passover
43 And the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "This is the statute of the Passover: no foreigner shall eat of it,44 but every slave that is bought for money may eat of it after you have circumcised him.45 No foreigner or hired servant may eat of it.46 It shall be eaten in one house; you shall not take any of the flesh outside the house, and you shall not break any of its bones.47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.48 If a stranger shall sojourn with you and would keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised. Then he may come near and keep it; he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it.49 There shall be one law for the native and for the stranger who sojourns among


see the problem , you have with the old covenant.
only jewish , may take part.


v

all christian believers v jewish converts who want to return to law.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.




all ready mentioned in an other post, to follow the full law, given by moses, you need a temple of stone. you need to be jewish. now 70 ad did not affect a christian believer, however it stopped a jewish religion or nation. not by mans doing, but because of gods doings. so now all men/woman in the world , are all born into a new covenant. so now the modern day jewish can understand for them selfs , and gentiles can understand for them selfs. christain teachings are for all nations.

6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth."Isaiah 49: The Servant of the LORD


with the though of all nations, usa was not discovered till around 1600 ad.
so history had to wait till the world was full conquered , etc

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I was wondering If we could get some kind of revelation from the laying on of hands from the old covenant?,since the old covenant Is the new covenant concealed and the new covenant Is the old covenant revealed.

 

[Ariel82]

Before people are born again. Before they are even babies drinking their milk, they are dead in their sins and trespasses. Spiritually dead.

Some are happy to be dead. Their life is going well. They don't think they really need a savior. They might have a form of the law.,,either Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi or Islamic law it doesn't matter. They have a moral yard stick they can measure their life and thoughts with and though they aren't saints. They are better than other dead zombies they compare themselves. Even better outwardly than many baby Christians. What need do they have a savior?

Others are unhappy. They suffer from condemnation. They know themselves to be sinners and try to work and clean themselves. They are humble and contrite, but haven't heard the Gospel.

Your message Grace would work for the 2nd group of people, because they already realize they are sinners. They recognize their dead state.

However it would just be shrugged off as "their due" by the first group, because they believe themselves righteous.

If you don't admit your brokenness, then it will fester and become infected. Repent about the wrong way of how to be saved is important. So is repenting of sinful behavior. It is important to tear down any spiritual stronghold that war against the knowledge of God. It's not about being perfectly sinless to be saved but to have humble and contrite hearts willing to listen to God about what is right and what is wrong.

So moving past defining what repentance is we move towards FAITH TOWARDS GOD.

What does that mean? That God so loved the world He sent His only Son to die for the remission of our sins.

So

bottle 1repent) we are sinners in need of a savior and we can't save or cleanse ourselves from our sins we need God.

Bottle 2: (faith) We must have faith toward God when He tells us that He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die for the remission of our sins.

Anyone ready to move on to the next foundational concept or do we want to hear more people tell me how wrong I am?

 

[Grace777x70]

What is the next foundation concept from Hebrews 6:1-2? Faith towards God - is that the next one? I think people gave their views on the other ones so far.

I like seed_time_harvest 's ask about how the laying on of hands in the Old reveals Christ in the New Covenant but we can talk about how things in the Old are hidden and the full substance of them is now in Christ on another thread?...or after we are done with all the ones talked about in Hebrew 6?

It is your thread Ariel....what would you like to do?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Before people are born again. Before they are even babies drinking their milk, they are dead in their sins and trespasses. Spiritually dead.

Some are happy to be dead. Their life is going well. They don't think they really need a savior. They might have a form of the law.,,either Jewish, Buddhist, Hindi or Islamic law it doesn't matter. They have a moral yard stick they can measure their life and thoughts with and though they aren't saints. They are better than other dead zombies they compare themselves. Even better outwardly than many baby Christians. What need do they have a savior?

Others are unhappy. They suffer from condemnation. They know themselves to be sinners and try to work and clean themselves. They are humble and contrite, but haven't heard the Gospel.

Your message Grace would work for the 2nd group of people, because they already realize they are sinners. They recognize their dead state.

However it would just be shrugged off as "their due" by the first group, because they believe themselves righteous.

If you don't admit your brokenness, then it will fester and become infected. Repent about the wrong way of how to be saved is important. So is repenting of sinful behavior. It is important to tear down any spiritual stronghold that war against the knowledge of God. It's not about being perfectly sinless to be saved but to have humble and contrite hearts willing to listen to God about what is right and what is wrong.

So moving past defining what repentance is we move towards FAITH TOWARDS GOD.

What does that mean? That God so loved the world He sent His only Son to die for the remission of our sins.

So

bottle 1repent) we are sinners in need of a savior and we can't save or cleanse ourselves from our sins we need God.

Bottle 2: (faith) We must have faith toward God when He tells us that He loved us so much that He sent Jesus to die for the remission of our sins.

Anyone ready to move on to the next foundational concept or do we want to hear more people tell me how wrong I am?

I would like to move on too.
I've heard enough about how you aren't repenting properly!

It's funny but in G777's post, I thought I caught a sort of repeat with us. Some were upset at the man for preaching to certain people, (sort of like us where we say they can't hear more or learn more or we refuse to let the conversation continue) but when they heard that they received the same Holy Spirit, they simmered down. If someone received the Holy Spirit, you really can't say they repented wrong, now can you? God obviously thought it was sufficient or they wouldn't have received the Spirit!

 

[Grace777x70]

I would like to move on too.
I've heard enough about how you aren't repenting properly!

It's funny but in G777's post, I thought I caught a sort of repeat with us. Some were upset at the man for preaching to certain people, (sort of like us where we say they can't hear more or learn more or we refuse to let the conversation continue) but when they heard that they received the same Holy Spirit, they simmered down. If someone received the Holy Spirit, you really can't say they repented wrong, now can you? God obviously thought it was sufficient or they wouldn't have received the Spirit!

Yes...the Jews thought of the Gentiles as dogs - people without a covenant so Peter got in trouble from the other Jews for going into the Gentile's house.

But Cornelius and his household obviously "had faith towards God" because the Holy Spirit who looks on the hearts "saw their belief in their hearts that their sins were forgiven because of Christ." It is with the heart that man believes. Romans 10:10

So, they did have faith towards God. God saw their heart when they listened to the words of Peter and then Peter said "God cleansed their hearts by faith." ( this is another proof that we have new hearts in Christ. )

Cornelius and his household did "repent" and not one mention was made about them repenting. Instead they exhibited "faith towards God" and believed all that they heard about Christ and His work for them.

The Holy Spirit confirmed the words and truth of Peter talking about the forgiveness of sins in Christ and they received the Holy Spirit.

I love how the Holy Spirit "rushes" to confirm the word of Christ and "falls on them" - this is the same word for when the father in the Prodigal story "falls on the neck" of his returning son. All of heaven responds to the word of Christ.