Don't choke the BABY! Let new Christians drink their milk before you force feed them

[Stephen63]

][/COLOR]Notice that there is nothing here about the crying and wailing and feeling all ashamed and miserable? We have made REPENTING into feeling bad, and being sorry. Well, any criminal who has been caught and is about to face a court feels this way.... that does NOT mean he has decided to change his mind about stealing. It just means that he will try harder not to get caught in the future.

This is all about a new mindset, not about simply being sorry you are in trouble. Use the word REPENT in any way that will help you love God more, but just do be aware of what it really meant when the Jews were asked to repent — Change their minds from trusting in the law or themselves, and trust totally in Jesus.

REPENT is not about being sorry you got caught..... it's being sorry you sinned against God.

HG doctrine teaches that repent is only about changing your mind..... making a fruitless decision. That the decision is all that matters.

Luke 8:13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven but beat his breast and said .. God, have mercy on me a sinner." We are told that this man went home justified before God.

What we see Jesus showing us here is a man sorry for his sins, & is humbled because of it. Jesus said he was justified, therefore his repentance was true before God. Good job, plainguy, for finding that.

Matthew 3:1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:17From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) Repent.—Etymologically, the word “repent,” which has as its root-meaning the sense of pain, is hardly adequate as a rendering for the Greek word, which implies change of mind and purpose. In the Greek version of the Old Testament, the word is used of divine rather than human repentance, i.e., of a change of purpose implying pity and regret (1Samuel 15:29; Jeremiah 4:28; Jeremiah 18:8). In Wisdom Of Solomon 5:3; Ecclesiasticus 17:24; Ecclesiasticus 48:15, it includes the sorrow out of which the change comes.

Benson Commentary
Matthew 3:2. Repent ye, &c. — Be sorry for your sins, and amend your lives; for the original word, μετανοειτε, here used, implies this. It properly signifies, says Beza, to be wise after the action, and so to grieve for a fault committed as to amend it, which, in Latin, is properly expressed by resipiscere

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Repent ye - Repentance implies sorrow for past offences 2 Corinthians 7:10; a deep sense of the evil of sin as committed against God Psalm 51:4; and a full purpose to turn from transgression and to lead a holy life. A true penitent has sorrow for sin, not only because it is ruinous to his soul, but chiefly because it is an offence against God, and is that abominable thing which he hates, Jeremiah 44:4. It is produced by seeing the great danger and misery to which it exposes us; by seeing the justice and holiness of God Job 42:6; and by seeing that our sins have been committed against Christ, and were the cause of his death, Zechariah 12:10; Luke 22:61-62.

Accept no substitutes. There's only one way to truly repent before God.

Let God be true, & every man a liar.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

A mans repentance is between himself and God. We need to give God room to work and not expect that everyones understanding and experience and how they try to put it into words will be an exact replica of ours. And we also can't expect that all men will have our same...touchinesses, because not all men fall into all the same exact ditches.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

REPENT is not about being sorry you got caught..... it's being sorry you sinned against God.

HG doctrine teaches that repent is only about changing your mind..... making a fruitless decision. That the decision is all that matters.



What we see Jesus showing us here is a man sorry for his sins, & is humbled because of it. Jesus said he was justified, therefore his repentance was true before God. Good job, plainguy, for finding that.

Matthew 3:1 Now in those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, saying, 2“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Matthew 4:17From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(2) Repent.—Etymologically, the word “repent,” which has as its root-meaning the sense of pain, is hardly adequate as a rendering for the Greek word, which implies change of mind and purpose. In the Greek version of the Old Testament, the word is used of divine rather than human repentance, i.e., of a change of purpose implying pity and regret (1Samuel 15:29; Jeremiah 4:28; Jeremiah 18:8). In Wisdom Of Solomon 5:3; Ecclesiasticus 17:24; Ecclesiasticus 48:15, it includes the sorrow out of which the change comes.

Benson Commentary
Matthew 3:2. Repent ye, &c. — Be sorry for your sins, and amend your lives; for the original word, μετανοειτε, here used, implies this. It properly signifies, says Beza, to be wise after the action, and so to grieve for a fault committed as to amend it, which, in Latin, is properly expressed by resipiscere

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Repent ye - Repentance implies sorrow for past offences 2 Corinthians 7:10; a deep sense of the evil of sin as committed against God Psalm 51:4; and a full purpose to turn from transgression and to lead a holy life. A true penitent has sorrow for sin, not only because it is ruinous to his soul, but chiefly because it is an offence against God, and is that abominable thing which he hates, Jeremiah 44:4. It is produced by seeing the great danger and misery to which it exposes us; by seeing the justice and holiness of God Job 42:6; and by seeing that our sins have been committed against Christ, and were the cause of his death, Zechariah 12:10; Luke 22:61-62.

Accept no substitutes. There's only one way to truly repent before God.

Let God be true, & every man a liar.

They will report you for mentioning the term "HG." You should say what you have to say without using the term "HG."
Besides, you can't lump any two men into one group. They don't all believe exactly the same. Even among any given denomination, not all believe exactly the same on all things.

 

[Stephen63]

Cornelius and his household did"repent" and not one mention was made about them repenting. Instead they exhibited "faith towards God" and believed all that they heard about Christ and His work for them.

This is what happens when people don't read the whole Bible. They search for only the verses they want, & "teach" (if that's what you want to call it) that these other things aren't necessary, because "their verse" didn't say it.

BTW, because a verse didn't say it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If we did that to the whole Bible, we would have to rip out over half the pages that had more "complete" teachings in it..... like the real meaning of the word "repent", for starters.

 

[Ariel82]

I would like to move on too.
I've heard enough about how you aren't repenting properly!

It's funny but in G777's post, I thought I caught a sort of repeat with us. Some were upset at the man for preaching to certain people, (sort of like us where we say they can't hear more or learn more or we refuse to let the conversation continue) but when they heard that they received the same Holy Spirit, they simmered down. If someone received the Holy Spirit, you really can't say they repented wrong, now can you? God obviously thought it was sufficient or they wouldn't have received the Spirit!

Okay, moving forward. What is our next point?

 

[Ariel82]

The doctrine of baptisms..

 

[gb9]

This is what happens when people don't read the whole Bible. They search for only the verses they want, & "teach" (if that's what you want to call it) that these other things aren't necessary, because "their verse" didn't say it.

BTW, because a verse didn't say it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If we did that to the whole Bible, we would have to rip out over half the pages that had more "complete" teachings in it..... like the real meaning of the word "repent", for starters.

so, at my church, we have a thing called starting point, where people can go and ask questions about the Bible, faith, God, Jesus etc... but no one threatens them will hell or yells " repent you sinners ". they have their questions answered, and then decide if they want to come back. most do come back.

but, to you this probably won't count, because they were not given a turn or burn sermon.

 

[Ariel82]

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

1 Peter 3:21
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Acts 10:48
48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Acts 22:16
16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

Colossians 2:12
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

Galatians 3:27
27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Luke 3:16
16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Mark 16:16
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 3:21-22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

Mark 1:4-5
4 And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Acts 8:36-38
36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. What can stand in the way of my being baptized? ” 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Acts 16:31-33
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. 33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

Acts 2:38-41
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

John 1:29-33
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

Matthew 3:11-17
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Romans 6:1-18
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness

 

[Ariel82]

so, at my church, we have a thing called starting point, where people can go and ask questions about the Bible, faith, God, Jesus etc... but no one threatens them will hell or yells " repent you sinners ". they have their questions answered, and then decide if they want to come back. most do come back.

but, to you this probably won't count, because they were not given a turn or burn sermon.

Sounds like a great ministry.

 

[Ariel82]

We are all called to different ministries and equiped to be able to help people to tear down the strongholds that we had to face and tear down in our own lives or seen destroy the lives of our loved ones.

However if we bite and tear at one another, all we end up with is more bleeding wounds and people backing up from the rabid folks who have the audacity to call themselves Christians.

I would like to study baptism as found in the Bible. If you aren't interested, please find or start another thread.

Thank you.

Need to go to a Christcare meeting. Will check in whenever God gives me a chance.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ariel....I think I already gave my thoughts on baptisms in an earlier post pertaining to Heb. 6 if it is talking about after we come to Christ and not about Jewish "washings" in the Old Covenant.

That there is only one real one - being baptized into Christ when we believe.

Mark 10:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] But Jesus said to them, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?"

[SUP]39 [/SUP] They said to Him, "We are able." And Jesus said to them, "The cup that I drink you shall drink; and you shall be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.

Galatians 3:27 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.


There are other "immersions" or "baptisms" talked about in scripture. Such as the Jews being baptized into Moses. 1 Cor. 12:2, water baptism of John and of believers after they receive Christ as a symbol, Holy Spirit baptism, baptized into one body. 1 Cor. 12:13

 

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

This is what happens when people don't read the whole Bible. They search for only the verses they want, & "teach" (if that's what you want to call it) that these other things aren't necessary, because "their verse" didn't say it.

BTW, because a verse didn't say it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If we did that to the whole Bible, we would have to rip out over half the pages that had more "complete" teachings in it..... like the real meaning of the word "repent", for starters.

so, at my church, we have a thing called starting point, where people can go and ask questions about the Bible, faith, God, Jesus etc... but no one threatens them will hell or yells " repent you sinners ". they have their questions answered, and then decide if they want to come back. most do come back.

but, to you this probably won't count, because they were not given a turn or burn sermon.

I didn't see how you came to that conclusion, except you just didn't like what I said.

I'm not gonna tell you to turn or burn, though appropriate for the individual, but because your mind is locked in your doctrine, it may already be too late. You have read much more than I've said already, so how would adding to other's messages change anything?

 

[royalscot]

it is the truth that sets you free, not opinion. ( personal relationship)

if you claim the law saved you. then give chapter and verse.

but notice no chapter or verse was given. only insults.

condemnation can not save you, because through the law, you use, will condemn you.

if jesus said i can save all, even death could not condemn him. only human intellect brought condemnation.

no wonder, he spoke in parables to the crowd.

 

[gb9]

you mean that my mind is locked onto the doctrine that we are saved by grace, and that we DO not have to prove to each other how saved we are?? yes, I am locked into that truth.

I noticed that you did not agree or disagree with the method that my church uses. curious.

 

[PeterJens]

Thank God we have word-for-word accounts of the real gospel being preached. ( You will see that it is drastically different then some of our current evangelical ways )

This one phrase shows such blindness to what sin is and its sign of separation between
us and God, nothing more really needs to be said. This false teacher has no serious
conviction of sin or desire to turn from it.

Sin is subtle, it invariably is about justifying the individual above damage caused to others
and themselves. The emotions are always geared to work for the individual without reference
to anyone and will deceive everyone to believe there is no problem at all.

Until we submit to God and His ways, His righteousness and focus, our emotions will always lead
us into rebellion. So rather than accepting Gods words and working out what they mean, it is
just closed off and ignored as not relevant. So sin and punishment is just a legal court issue,
and staying as you are is ok, because now you have faith, and you will change in response to
acceptance, not recognising the whole of the emotions of everyone keeps them where they are,
and change will never occur unless this framework changes. But any change or looking at emotions
is self and evil, God alone will deal with that, except no, our hearts are us and this is everything
we think, do, and say, so without cleansing and change we are doomed.

 

[dcontroversal]

so, at my church, we have a thing called starting point, where people can go and ask questions about the Bible, faith, God, Jesus etc... but no one threatens them will hell or yells " repent you sinners ". they have their questions answered, and then decide if they want to come back. most do come back.

but, to you this probably won't count, because they were not given a turn or burn sermon.

Do you remember the book of John mentioning hell?........me neither......although I did sleep last night

 

[Ariel82]

Stephen, Gb, and royalscot y'all are being disrespectful.

If you don't get a response from me on this thread, it's because i have temporary put u 3 on ignore.

Only have limited time to read and respond and I don't feel like watching a fight.

Can't really stop you from reengaging in your favorite bashing of your made up strawmen, but serious I was hoping to talk to some mature folks.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I've heard people say they didn't receive a distinct Baptism of the Spirit but they just became aware of His Presence more gradually. Mine was very distinct and one moment I wasn't and then the next moment I was. It didn't happen that first day I prayed, but it happened soon after.

Others say they sensed Gods' Spirit at an early age and just don't remember when they first became aware of His Presence in them.

And I met a man once who received his Baptism of the Spirit the moment he came up out of the water during the water baptism performed by men. He insisted one could not be Baptized by the Holy Spirit without a water baptism because that was how he experienced it.

So even this Baptism is varied and personal for each man.

 

[Grace777x70]

I've heard people say they didn't receive a distinct Baptism of the Spirit but they just became aware of His Presence more gradually. Mine was very distinct and one moment I wasn't and then the next moment I was. It didn't happen that first day I prayed, but it happened soon after.

Others say they sensed Gods' Spirit at an early age and just don't remember when they first became aware of His Presence in them.

And I met a man once who received his Baptism of the Spirit the moment he came up out of the water during the water baptism performed by men. He insisted one could not be Baptized by the Holy Spirit without a water baptism because that was how he experienced it.

So even this Baptism is varied and personal for each man.

Great post! I heard a woman tell the story of sitting in her bathtub and the Holy Spirit fell upon her or maybe the more accurate term is rose up inside of her to fill her. ( I don't know ) Anyway she was just worshipping the Lord by herself naked in a bathtub and the next thing she knew - she is speaking in tongues. - filled with the joy and love of the Lord.

 

[royalscot]

you mean that my mind is locked onto the doctrine that we are saved by grace, and that we DO not have to prove to each other how saved we are?? yes, I am locked into that truth.

I noticed that you did not agree or disagree with the method that my church uses. curious.

when is this forum topic say anything about what happens inside your church. or any religions church , this is a christian chat forum topic. this is not a church. what dose your church do by it self. god church is global.

if you rebuild, what has been destroyed, then you not only endanger your self, but all the others in that church.

and if you have not worked out basic milk drinking, god works in a believer in there body, ie he lives inside you. even when your not in church.