Let them Eat MEAT! Learning spiritual discernment: legalism

[PeterJens]

I ask this, because if one understands legalism, one also needs to understand why love
is the answer. Why does love stop disrespecting one parents, coveting, commiting adultery,
swearing, murdering, stealing, bearing false witness, dishonouring God?

Here is a simple working through love and stealing.
A shop keeper brings goods to their shop for me to buy. They pay for the goods, needs
to sell them at a profit so they can go a buy some more and continue to sell the goods.

I benefit from the goods, only having to go to the shop, and pay a little bit for this saving
of effort, so I can then return home.

If I steal I stop the shop keeper from being able to sell his goods. I make him loose his
profit and more to make up for the goods stolen. So I dishonour him and my need to buy the
goods and the benefit it is to me. So I do not steal, because I appreciate him and his effort,
and want it to continue for both my benefit and his. One could extend this further but you begin
to see the effect of the sin, how love plays its part, and why it benefits everyone to encourage
the shop keeper.

Love takes us from the selfish benefit into the social whole and its effects and implications.
The law by itself tells you only the action you did was wrong. Love opens ones eyes.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No, I have no diabetes, but I do have peripheral neuropathy in both legs. (Can't feel much below my knees. )

And did you work around any organic compounds? For example, paint thinner, drycleaning stuff?

 

[Stephen63]

Peter, he shared something very personal with us. Please don't act this way. All here would gladly try to answer these questions, but you aren't walking very well right now, brother.

It is very easy to make an assumption. When conversations are light & funny, it's much easier to think something about someone that's very nice. But when you lay all the cards on the table, we still come up short on info whether we know someone.

The Bible says we know them by their fruit. Those knowing what we are looking for will cry "fruit inspectors!" to keep us from doing that very thing..... looking at their fruit.

For instance, say someone says they're Spirit-led. Then when said person cannot see the multitude of scriptures that show a christian can lose their salvation plainly written, I would question the "spirit-led" relationship that person has, & who's spirit it really is.

During my christian life, I've seen several polite, lively, energetic people that claimed both Christ & the Holy Spirit infilling that didn't have either.

Now before anyone blows a fuse at me, I'm not saying certain people have that problem..... I'm saying christian people need to look for spiritual fruit instead of friendly faces. That person smiling at you could be demon-possessed. Satan knows how to smile too, you know.

 

[Willie-T]

And did you work around any organic compounds? For example, paint thinner, drycleaning stuff?

No, not any more than the average person, I guess.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Here is a simple working through love and stealing.
A shop keeper brings goods to their shop for me to buy. They pay for the goods, needs
to sell them at a profit so they can go a buy some more and continue to sell the goods.

I benefit from the goods, only having to go to the shop, and pay a little bit for this saving
of effort, so I can then return home.

If I steal I stop the shop keeper from being able to sell his goods. I make him loose his
profit and more to make up for the goods stolen. So I dishonour him and my need to buy the
goods and the benefit it is to me. So I do not steal, because I appreciate him and his effort,
and want it to continue for both my benefit and his. One could extend this further but you begin
to see the effect of the sin, how love plays its part, and why it benefits everyone to encourage
the shop keeper.

Love takes us from the selfish benefit into the social whole and its effects and implications.
The law by itself tells you only the action you did was wrong. Love opens ones eyes.

Actually...I didn't see love working in that example as much as the buyer not doing it for his own benefit. Maybe it was just the way you worded it...

 

[PeterJens]

I am really trying hard not to say, "Hey, suck my... nose!"

God didn't work the way you "would expect Him to", eh?

A guy called Muhammed had what he thought was an experience with God.
Todd Bentley met an angel, I saw a "prophet" talking about messages from the dead.

We have one anchor, the cross and Gods righteousness and love.

And on that day will all be revealed. Holiness and Gods presence brings one thing
repentance, and a deep desire to walk as Jesus walked.

The test of a work of God is it declares Jesus is Lord, that He came in the flesh.
Is this the outcome or something else?

 

[JosephsDreams]

As a vegan, I think milk and meat should be abstained.
Fruit is a good choice.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yeah...it's difficult to find any kind of job any more in which a person is not exposed to some sort of organic compound. The mineral spirits is what did it to me. Bad stuff.

No, not any more than the average person, I guess.

 

[Stephen63]

I am really trying hard not to say, "Hey, suck my... nose!"

God didn't work the way you "would expect Him to", eh?

Now would be a good time to check out some fruit here, don'tcha think?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is very easy to make an assumption. When conversations are light & funny, it's much easier to think something about someone that's very nice. But when you lay all the cards on the table, we still come up short on info whether we know someone.

The Bible says we know them by their fruit. Those knowing what we are looking for will cry "fruit inspectors!" to keep us from doing that very thing..... looking at their fruit.

For instance, say someone says they're Spirit-led. Then when said person cannot see the multitude of scriptures that show a christian can lose their salvation plainly written, I would question the "spirit-led" relationship that person has, & who's spirit it really is.

During my christian life, I've seen several polite, lively, energetic people that claimed both Christ & the Holy Spirit infilling that didn't have either.

Now before anyone blows a fuse at me, I'm not saying certain people have that problem..... I'm saying christian people need to look for spiritual fruit instead of friendly faces. That person smiling at you could be demon-possessed. Satan knows how to smile too, you know.

Brother, if you base whether you think someone has the Spirit based on a doctrine like OSAS v, NOSAS, you will condemn 50% of Spirit led people...!

At the end of your post, you say we should know by their fruits (love, patience, longsuffering, humility, meekness, etc.) and this is correct. This is how we know - we see Christ IN them. So why do you mix it up with basing it on "perfect" doctrine?

 

[Willie-T]

Now would be a good time to check out some fruit here, don'tcha think?

Being angry with a foolish statement? Or did you think God condemns us for saying naughty things, like.... Oh, I don't know, maybe....."You brood of vipers!", or maybe that someone's insides were like a tomb? Or that they should die along with their money?

 

[PeterJens]

This situation reminds me of two leadings people had.

I was on a christian ship working in the galley. We were in australia, setting
off for New Zealand. Some inspired prophet prophesied we would sink, as a
kind of judgement on the community. After we arrived safely it was shared with
the crew.

Another was a girl who felt the Lord was leading her to Pakistan to ministry.
When she got there, she felt the Lord leading her home. Turned out she knew
about these convictions, but not their reality.

The world is full of people with convictions, but we are called to discern between
them. If someone claims the mormons have got it right, you know they are not
walking with Christ. A conviction is a good thing, as long as it is actually legitimate,
and I encourage people to share such things, as long as they realise they will be
challenged and so they should.

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:8

You will notice the message being preached is now a different gospel, and openly so,
with secret revelations which were not heard or preached over a lifetime in the church.

Now that is what I would call definitively wrong.

 

[samuel23]

Ariel82: Enlighten me please.

 

[samuel23]

I went through all that "God told me" years in the past, I have found that God rarely speaks directly to us but there are a lot of false spirits out there who love to speak to us as if they are the Lord.

 

[Willie-T]

A guy called Muhammed had what he thought was an experience with God.
Todd Bentley met an angel, I saw a "prophet" talking about messages from the dead.

We have one anchor, the cross and Gods righteousness and love.

And on that day will all be revealed. Holiness and Gods presence brings one thing
repentance, and a deep desire to walk as Jesus walked.

The test of a work of God is it declares Jesus is Lord, that He came in the flesh.
Is this the outcome or something else?

I'm pretty sure it was you saying that if someone hadn't experienced the things of God just as you had, then they probably didn't really know God. I wonder if the same could be said of those of us who have not experienced what others believe they have seen?

 

[PeterJens]

I'm pretty sure it was you saying that if someone hadn't experienced the things of God just as you had, then they probably didn't really know God. I wonder if the same could be said of those of us who have not experienced what others believe they have seen?

I have never restricted anybodies experience to my own.
What I will say is what scripture obviously says.

And if one persons experience contradicts scripture, I go with scripture.
So this whole point seems without a point, or have I got something wrong?

 

[Stephen63]

Brother, if you base whether you think someone has the Spirit based on a doctrine like OSAS v, NOSAS, you will condemn 50% of Spirit led people...!

At the end of your post, you say we should know by their fruits (love, patience, longsuffering, humility, meekness, etc.) and this is correct. This is how we know - we see Christ IN them. So why do you mix it up with basing it on "perfect" doctrine?

Is that what you think? I give one example, & you come up with this?

Can love be faked? Ask a woman whose husband cheated on her.
Is Satan also patient? Can he endure?
Have you ever met someone with a false humility?
You've caught a hypocrite before, haven't you?

The HARD evidence of a person's fruit is their understanding of the Word, because only the washed in Christ can spiritually discern what the Bible is saying, for the Holy Spirit will lead them in that discernment. That proof of fruit is ironclad.

The handling of scripture should be be one of the first fruits to look for when a person seems to be mature in Christ.

 

[pottersclay]

Legalism imo is creating a relationship on a contractual agreement. It gives no room for grace or mercy when this is done as a religion.
If I tithe then God owes me. If I repent then God has to forgive. I share his word to get blessed. I attend church because I am godly. I pray so he will answer...etc.

Much of the problem that were with the Pharisees in Jesus day was they saw God as the law and not the author of it.
There worship became just as they saw God....strict as the law. By the letter. Creating there own religious system out of self righteousness they were hardening their own hearts towards God. Creating a burden they could not bare.

Then this young rabbi steps into the picture, meek, humble, gentle, kind, peaceful, loving, and started to undo what has been the practice for hundreds of years. When he speaks in the temple his words were gracious, giving life to the scriptures. People came from all over to hear him, to touch him, to have him touch them.
No wonder they didn't recognise him. A sad thing to say but as Jesus grew in popularity there hearts were hardening all the more.
Legalism makes no room for God.

 

[PeterJens]

Being angry with a foolish statement? Or did you think God condemns us for saying naughty things, like.... Oh, I don't know, maybe....."You brood of vipers!", or maybe that someone's insides were like a tomb? Or that they should die along with their money?

An interesting point. "You brood of vipers" was addressed to people who were only interested
in destroying people not listening to the truth.

"insides like a tomb" is describing someone who has no heart, is literally none responsive to
normal emotional empathy from a hard heart and seared conscience.

Dying with ones money has no foundation in scripture. A foolish man who hoards up their
wealth only to die and meet the Lord, now that has application.

"Foolish statement" is again not biblical, and gets close to calling someone a fool, especially
in anger.

So whatever this point is, it demonstrates some emotional blindness and wrong application.
But maybe I am being too harsh on someone who was loosing it. So much history of hurts
and failure, such a burden is difficult to carry. May God bless you and bring you release
and healing.

 

[Willie-T]

I have never restricted anybodies experience to my own.
What I will say is what scripture obviously says.

And if one persons experience contradicts scripture, I go with scripture.
So this whole point seems without a point, or have I got something wrong?

In your earlier post, you put down a man for saying he had seen an angel. Yet Scripture speaks many times of people seeing an angel.