Let them Eat MEAT! Learning spiritual discernment: legalism

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A

Ariel82

Guest
Willie - to continue with my testimony.

The interesting thing about this is that I did not learn this gospel of the grace of God in Christ initially from any preacher or teacher. I was just going about my own business and I had won a trip to Puerto Rico with my work.

I remember in a social meeting one person in our group asked about heaven. I told them I know exactly where I am going. They said "how do you know that?"

I told them " I am going to kneel before my Father and declare that His Son, my Lord Jesus Christ shed His blood for me and I am here because of Him."

They all looked at me as if I was from another planet. "I said this will be my greatest achievement if one can even call it that - and that is to kneel down and confess Jesus and what He has done". ( they were shocked because I had won more awards then many others and to them...performance was everything )

Then a few weeks later I woke up with a scripture in my spirit - not my head. I wrote it down and then every morning for a few months the Lord would drop a scripture in my spirit.

I still to this day from time to time take out those scriptures and meditate on them ( which includes confessing/agreeing with them ) as I feel directed by the Lord.

Now, those scriptures were the gospel of the grace of Christ and as I was learning more about them the Lord started me to look on the web for things and sure enough there were preachers preaching the same thing the Holy Spirit was showing me.

I had never heard of any of these preachers before the Lord directed me to them. So, I was taught the gospel of the grace of Christ before I ever heard another preacher talk about it.

I can remember times when the Holy Spirit would come upon me ( it seemed like He came upon me - or maybe welled up within me...I'm not sure but it felt like He wrapped me up as in a blanket of pure love ) - and He was teaching me things concerning Christ and the true nature of the Father.

His power is overwhelming and very heavy and I couldn't move a muscle but just sit there and weep as He revealed His love and grace to me. His love is the most overwhelming aspect of His presence. It is so strong and you can't take much of it as it just overwhelms you.

Since then the Lord has led me to many different people from many denominations to learn what they are anointed to teach on.

I will never go back to that false system of religion or legalism in all it's forms and desert my Lord. Never!

Anyway - that is my testimony of how the Lord taught me the true gospel of the grace of God that is in Christ my Lord.
I would be interested in a list of the online sermons/preachers you listened to....maybe you could make a thread or send them to me? Thanks.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I would be interested in a list of the online sermons/preachers you listened to....maybe you could make a thread or send them to me? Thanks.
Sure thing. I will send you a PM with the ones I was directed to and listened to what they had to say. I'll send it tomorrow morning. I'm off to do some reading. Have a great night.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I can't believe even you have not heard, at least twenty times, the story of Simon the Sorcerer trying to buy the "power." Man, you really ARE kind of weak on Bible knowledge, aren't you?
You are right, sorry I got this wrong. I have not read this passage for many years.

Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Acts 8:20-23

Interestingly Peter condemns Simon for his wickedness and asks him to repent, and ask the
Lord to forgive him for the thought he had in his heart.

And repent here is definately not change his mind, but turn from his sin, and walk Gods way.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I would be interested in a list of the online sermons/preachers you listened to....maybe you could make a thread or send them to me? Thanks.
Why has God suddenly brought John 8 to my recollection?

26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?

27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?

28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
It is very easy to make an assumption. When conversations are light & funny, it's much easier to think something about someone that's very nice. But when you lay all the cards on the table, we still come up short on info whether we know someone.

The Bible says we know them by their fruit. Those knowing what we are looking for will cry "fruit inspectors!" to keep us from doing that very thing..... looking at their fruit.

For instance, say someone says they're Spirit-led. Then when said person cannot see the multitude of scriptures that show a christian can lose their salvation plainly written, I would question the "spirit-led" relationship that person has, & who's spirit it really is.

During my christian life, I've seen several polite, lively, energetic people that claimed both Christ & the Holy Spirit infilling that didn't have either.

Now before anyone blows a fuse at me, I'm not saying certain people have that problem..... I'm saying christian people need to look for spiritual fruit instead of friendly faces. That person smiling at you could be demon-possessed. Satan knows how to smile too, you know.:)
Not even sure what to say to you.

How do you know that YOU are filled with the HOLY Spirit?

What fruits would you hold up to be inspected?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Stunned - you have different fruit. Your issues are ones of the heart and personal,
not a mission against a whole group, to which you previously belonged.

You have from your heart shared your struggles and your desire to walk with the Spirit
in victory over them. So my heart say amen to you, from all that I am.

What you have displayed is both repentance, confession and ministry of God in your
life. And I know from your words you have changed. Likewise you have read a different
emotional response from myself, mainly because I was not being looked at and responded
to as an enemy.

One member who I thought might have grown and changed, called me a rodent straight
away. Others recently related me to the serpent in the garden of eden. But then I did not
expect much more than this, because I knew I could not reach who they are.

And in the end that is what all this comes down to. Being honest and real in the body and
with Christ. It gets hard wired into you, because it is what the Kingdom is, and those who
do not walk this way feel it, but do not know how to respond. It is why we are called light.
I begin to understand more through these forums, and how people on all sides have problems
with this, ofcourse myself as well, as it is always a walk. So I appreciate your fellowship,
and your honesty.

I remember sharing something from my heart and experience, and I was told I was lying.
This says a lot about what people think is real behaviour and what is exaguration, and they
have never met or understood it is their ability to judge that is off and not peoples sharing.
It does get more complex when people also exagurate and distort something as well, even
well meaning ones, so grace and love is also needed in some measure.
Grace and love is always needed, amen. We need it, and we need to extend it to each other. If we agreed on all things and if we never got cranky or impatient, where would be the learning to bear with one another and learning to forgive things that really amount to mere trifles for our brothers sake?

We need to learn to abide in and walk in the Spirit even when we disagree. Disagreeing is not a reason to leave off walking in love. In fact, nothing is a reason to leave off walking in love. And if we need help in this, we only need to ask Him. :)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Your example was OSAS v. NOSAS. What example would I use if not the one you gave?
If you are going to demand "perfection" of doctrine, then you set yourself up to be perfect in your understanding of God? You have reached perfection before us? Or do you just insist that everyones "perfection" of doctrine be as advanced and admirable as your own?

I used your example. BY that example, you condemn 50% of Spirit led people. Many godly men, with the fruit of humility, forgiveness, love, meekness, etc., believe one way or the other.
Go ahead, jump & spout on me. I didn't treat you that way, & I'm not going to, either.

I'm not perfect. Never ever said I was.

I never mentioned my own doctrine, nor anyone else's. But somewhere I hit a nerve, didn't I?

I noticed you used OSAS, & not the "other" one. I guess the "other" one was a little too close to home to mention, wasn't it?

That would explain your reaction, as well as the other guy with his questions. They always come out of the woodwork when they think one of theirs is in jeopardy.

Those long discussions with G777 about doctrine..... who were you trying to fool?

Your reaction just let the cat outta the bag..... You still believe the way he does.:)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I can't believe even you have not heard, at least twenty times, the story of Simon the Sorcerer trying to buy the "power." Man, you really ARE kind of weak on Bible knowledge, aren't you?
Share the story with us.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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You are right, sorry I got this wrong. I have not read this passage for many years.

Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Acts 8:20-23

Interestingly Peter condemns Simon for his wickedness and asks him to repent, and ask the
Lord to forgive him for the thought he had in his heart.

And repent here is definately not change his mind, but turn from his sin, and walk Gods way.
Maybe this is one of those cases where we might rather ASK about a passage, instead of flatly trying to say something mentioned is not even in the Bible.

I'm including myself in this admonishment. I guess I am too much like Trump, in that when I am maliciously swung at, I tend to hit back even harder.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Turn the other cheek is hard doctrine to learn.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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It is very easy to make an assumption. When conversations are light & funny, it's much easier to think something about someone that's very nice. But when you lay all the cards on the table, we still come up short on info whether we know someone.

The Bible says we know them by their fruit. Those knowing what we are looking for will cry "fruit inspectors!" to keep us from doing that very thing..... looking at their fruit.

For instance, say someone says they're Spirit-led. Then when said person cannot see the multitude of scriptures that show a christian can lose their salvation plainly written, I would question the "spirit-led" relationship that person has, & who's spirit it really is.

During my christian life, I've seen several polite, lively, energetic people that claimed both Christ & the Holy Spirit infilling that didn't have either.

Now before anyone blows a fuse at me, I'm not saying certain people have that problem..... I'm saying christian people need to look for spiritual fruit instead of friendly faces. That person smiling at you could be demon-possessed. Satan knows how to smile too, you know.:)
Here is where you brought up the OSAS believer and you questioning what spirit he has. And no, Stephen, I don't have a problem because you hit a nerve. I am actually NOSAS (sort of). I was trying to point out that if you question a persons salvation based on this, you will condemn 50% of Spirit led people.

This isn't the same as denying the deity of our Lord or teaching great evil.

I am sorry if I came across as being mean. Maybe I got a bit too full of myself. It's been known to happen. :rolleyes:
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Finally caught up....saw one good definition of legalism...let,me find and refocus the discussion...
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Can we discuss the meaning of these scriptures?

I believe it would be helpful to see how God response to legalism.

revelation 2
2​ “To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I strongly suggest that you let others speak for themselves...it's less confusing that way...because sometimes I have learned that I have incorrectly summarized their beliefs and they can speak for themselves.

Sides "convict" is a trigger word.
Maybe you're right. That very poster also suggested that very thing to me in one of jonteels
threads the other day. I knew free was NOT intending to say what peter thought he was but I should work on phrasing it more to something like...I don't think that's what he was saying, instead of: no, that's not what he's saying. :) Thanks!
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Oh, as far as convict being a trigger word, I can only try to stop using it. I've used it so long it is habit. It would be like trying to stop using the word and at this point...:) It's hard to teach an old dog new words. :D
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Stunned - you have different fruit. Your issues are ones of the heart and personal,
not a mission against a whole group, to which you previously belonged.

You have from your heart shared your struggles and your desire to walk with the Spirit
in victory over them. So my heart say amen to you, from all that I am.

What you have displayed is both repentance, confession and ministry of God in your
life. And I know from your words you have changed. Likewise you have read a different
emotional response from myself, mainly because I was not being looked at and responded
to as an enemy.

One member who I thought might have grown and changed, called me a rodent straight
away. Others recently related me to the serpent in the garden of eden. But then I did not
expect much more than this, because I knew I could not reach who they are.

And in the end that is what all this comes down to. Being honest and real in the body and
with Christ. It gets hard wired into you, because it is what the Kingdom is, and those who
do not walk this way feel it, but do not know how to respond. It is why we are called light.
I begin to understand more through these forums, and how people on all sides have problems
with this, ofcourse myself as well, as it is always a walk. So I appreciate your fellowship,
and your honesty.

I remember sharing something from my heart and experience, and I was told I was lying.
This says a lot about what people think is real behaviour and what is exaguration, and they
have never met or understood it is their ability to judge that is off and not peoples sharing.
It does get more complex when people also exagurate and distort something as well, even
well meaning ones, so grace and love is also needed in some measure.
I enjoy some of your posts, others are just out there.
but mostly I get tired of your martyr complex.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
Zone, you know being called a martyr might be considered a compliment by some?

Why is it so hard to talk about topics instead of people?

Read this whole thread and it quickly went at least ten different directions.

Been interesting to watch the conversational tidal waves.

However I feel like there is a thread I haven't read recently from the comments made...hmmm...