Live by Jesus teachings or Paul's?
- Thread starter Mimi84
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Living earnestly under a strict law of righteousness results in love being the casualty of this approach.
The Pharisee did good deeds to be praised by men, not God.
Faithfulness, mercy and justice Christ termed the higher points of the law, the Pharisees neglected this.
They crushed the people with impossible demands, thereby showing them no love.
They obeyed the letter of what many term the legalistic law, but didn't love God, or show love to those they laid impossible demands on
The Pharisee did good deeds to be praised by men, not God.
Faithfulness, mercy and justice Christ termed the higher points of the law, the Pharisees neglected this.
They crushed the people with impossible demands, thereby showing them no love.
They obeyed the letter of what many term the legalistic law, but didn't love God, or show love to those they laid impossible demands on
No amount of "seemingly" righteous deeds can make one righteous in God's eyes.
Only by receiving the gift of righteousness that Christ gives by grace through faith in what Christ has already done - can true righteousness come into being.
There fruits of the righteousness that is already in us - but it does not create righteousness....only Christ does that and we have that now because we are in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness.
Get this wrong and we pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ and we attempt to create our own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness.
Only by receiving the gift of righteousness that Christ gives by grace through faith in what Christ has already done - can true righteousness come into being.
There fruits of the righteousness that is already in us - but it does not create righteousness....only Christ does that and we have that now because we are in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness.
Get this wrong and we pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ and we attempt to create our own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness.
R
The thing all those claiming to be Christians, is to fully understand is The One God robed in a human body of the Unseen God in Spirit. What Jesus taught His hand picked Apostles was God himself telling them his word to teach the blinded sinners they had to deal with after Jesus Died and Rose from his grave and went back to heaven...
Here is something I find confusing, then:
Jesus said this:
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40 RSV
But Paul said this:
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Gal 5:14 RSV
Jesus said this:
[37] And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38] This is the great and first commandment.
[39] And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
[40] On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40 RSV
But Paul said this:
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Gal 5:14 RSV
Jesus said:
When he( the holy spirit) comes he will convict the world of GUILT in regard to sin, righteousness and judgement.
In regard to sin, because men do not believe in me, in regard to righteousness because I am going to the father
John 16:8&9
Under the old covenant you were considered righteous if you obeyed the law( deut6:25)
So why did Jesus not say:
In regard to guilt of sin transgression of the law?
Because Jesus was to die at Calvary for the sins of those who came to God through him, and sin is transgression of the law.
Righteousness is available for Christ would stand before the Father as the one who paid the price of believers sins
Jesus said
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but have everlasting life
Acceptance/ justification/ righteousness before God under the new covenant is believing in, or faith in Christ. Hence Jesus words regarding guilt of sin.
But Jesus said there was much more he wanted to teach his disciples, more than they could now bear, but when the Spirit of truth came he would guide them into all truth.
The spirit had come upon the Apostles, so they could expand at what Christ briefly touched on.
And who better to preach:
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth( rom10:4) than the person who had probably been the most ardent Pharisee of them all.
So Paul preached and explained the message Christ said was to come.
When he( the holy spirit) comes he will convict the world of GUILT in regard to sin, righteousness and judgement.
In regard to sin, because men do not believe in me, in regard to righteousness because I am going to the father
John 16:8&9
Under the old covenant you were considered righteous if you obeyed the law( deut6:25)
So why did Jesus not say:
In regard to guilt of sin transgression of the law?
Because Jesus was to die at Calvary for the sins of those who came to God through him, and sin is transgression of the law.
Righteousness is available for Christ would stand before the Father as the one who paid the price of believers sins
Jesus said
For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in me shall not perish but have everlasting life
Acceptance/ justification/ righteousness before God under the new covenant is believing in, or faith in Christ. Hence Jesus words regarding guilt of sin.
But Jesus said there was much more he wanted to teach his disciples, more than they could now bear, but when the Spirit of truth came he would guide them into all truth.
The spirit had come upon the Apostles, so they could expand at what Christ briefly touched on.
And who better to preach:
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth( rom10:4) than the person who had probably been the most ardent Pharisee of them all.
So Paul preached and explained the message Christ said was to come.
Last edited:
LOL...I understand what you are saying and yes we are all in the same boat.
When I said not everything is written "to" us. I was talking about that all things were written for us to learn from but not all things are directly "to" us. When Jesus called the Pharisees "You generation of vipers" He wasn't talking to His disciples so to take that verse and "apply" it "to" us believers in Christ would be error. It does work great for the religious people though that stop others from entering into the kingdom...
Or when Jesus told the rich young ruler to go sell all that he had - are we to "obey" that command too because Jesus said it "to" that particular person?
Did you know that not even God believes everything that is written in the bible about Him?
When I first saw this - I laughed. God says in Job 42:7 that Job's supposed friends did not speak what was true about God. So, for the last 30 some chapters what was written what was said by the 3 friends was not accurate about God and here we have in the bible scripture of people telling "things" about God that God Himself says is wrong.
Funny eh?
I like to state it this way: Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of truth.
We need to be totally dependent on the Holy spirit to reveal the things of Christ to us or we will end up with another religion and denomination.
Does that make sense?
False dichotomy and Breakers is completely incorrect. We would have to throw out all the parables that Jesus spoke following that logic as for only the Jews. That's frankly silly, but you may be dealing with a hyper-dispensationalist.
Read the book 'The Gospel According to Jesus' by John MacArthur. Also, get 'Recovering the Gospel Series' by Paul Washer. Please, read these works and don't allow anyone to taint your mind about the true Gospel. You're smart enough and led enough to discern the truths spoken throughout them and they are all very biblical and good reads.
Read the book 'The Gospel According to Jesus' by John MacArthur. Also, get 'Recovering the Gospel Series' by Paul Washer. Please, read these works and don't allow anyone to taint your mind about the true Gospel. You're smart enough and led enough to discern the truths spoken throughout them and they are all very biblical and good reads.
Makes perfect sense!..well said!..
All scripture is profitable in some form to us. The funny thing about scripture is - that very same scripture to one group of people can condemn them - to another it brings life to them depending on who you are.
John 3:36 (NASB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
All scripture is profitable in some form to us. The funny thing about scripture is - that very same scripture to one group of people can condemn them - to another it brings life to them depending on who you are.
John 3:36 (NASB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Last edited:
Again, to the OP, take a reading of 2 John, (very short epistle) written to the church, as to its solemn warning of not abiding by the teachings of Christ. Breakers has drawn a false and very dangerous dichotomy as this book is not written to the Jews, but to all in Christ, and there is no difference; Romans 10:12.
"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 2 John 1:9-11
I'd be leery of any person who teaches otherwise to the above. They may present cunning arguments, but don't be tossed around by these - Ephesians 4:14. IOW stick to the Word, and it is crystal clear on this issue.
"Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 2 John 1:9-11
I'd be leery of any person who teaches otherwise to the above. They may present cunning arguments, but don't be tossed around by these - Ephesians 4:14. IOW stick to the Word, and it is crystal clear on this issue.
Last edited:
Well if you teach the law and obey it but you are not covered by the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus then you are doomed..
But if you teach the law and obey it and are covered by the blood of Jesus then you will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven..
Now if some people are going to be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven then logicaly there are people who will be in the kingdom of heaven who will be called great or good or average or lesser.. So The kingdom of heaven is open to a lot more people then simply those who teach the law and obey it..
Oh and who do we know who taught the law and obeyed it on earth ??? ""JESUS""
But if you teach the law and obey it and are covered by the blood of Jesus then you will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven..
Now if some people are going to be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven then logicaly there are people who will be in the kingdom of heaven who will be called great or good or average or lesser.. So The kingdom of heaven is open to a lot more people then simply those who teach the law and obey it..
Oh and who do we know who taught the law and obeyed it on earth ??? ""JESUS""
Well if you teach the law and obey it but you are not covered by the Atonement of the Messiah Jesus then you are doomed..
But if you teach the law and obey it and are covered by the blood of Jesus then you will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven..
Now if some people are going to be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven then logicaly there are people who will be in the kingdom of heaven who will be called great or good or average or lesser.. So The kingdom of heaven is open to a lot more people then simply those who teach the law and obey it..
Oh and who do we know who taught the law and obeyed it on earth ??? ""JESUS""
But if you teach the law and obey it and are covered by the blood of Jesus then you will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven..
Now if some people are going to be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven then logicaly there are people who will be in the kingdom of heaven who will be called great or good or average or lesser.. So The kingdom of heaven is open to a lot more people then simply those who teach the law and obey it..
Oh and who do we know who taught the law and obeyed it on earth ??? ""JESUS""