Tongues Again???

VCO · Jan 14, 2017

You said "Is your youth being renewed like the eagle that soars in the currents of the wind?" LOL, hey, I turn 68 in a few weeks, what do you think? You will find out one day if the Lord tarries. What you were reading there was about ISRAEL. Israel now has their Military once again with the strength and might like she had in her youth. And they Soar on wings of Eagles:

No, my understanding it may have been prophesying, BECAUSE that word only meant at the time of Paul, to proclaim the Word of GOD and His Truths to others WITHOUT ERROR, but in reality I think it was just TOTAL TRUST on my part, and HE DID THE REST. Prophesying did not come to also mean in the cults, to foretell the future until the dark ages. It absolutely was not me doing it, it was Christ in me. I do not call it an annointing, IT WAS just an old Nebraska Farm Boy who TRUSTED Jesus Christ TOTALLY, and was willing to be used by HIM. You have to wonder how many more souls could we have won, if we had all focused on TOTALLY TRUSTING HIM to give us the ability do the work of an Evangelists, proclaiming the WORD of GOD and His Truths to the lost, instead of wasting so much time trying to edify Self.

READ THIS VERSE AGAIN! JESUS REALLY FORBADE A PRIVATE PRAY LANGUAGE:

Matthew 6:7-10 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

The Lords Prayer was never intended to be a recited memorize pray but rather it was a intended to be a model for all prayer, and HE intended it to be SPOKEN in our own language.

stonesoffire · Jan 15, 2017

We disagree. I'll agree to let you remain in your unbelief.

However, I will add this one thing. All the promises are yes and amen. Physical Israel-spiritual Israel.

Its been interesting.

VCO · Jan 15, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Okay, we agree to disagree again. I am co-equally convinced that Israel means ISRAEL. That the entire 144,000 are are blood Israelites, exactly 12,000 from each tribe sealed to repopulate and inherit the land of CANAAN as an everlasting Inheritance Covenant.

1 Chronicles 16:15-18 (ESV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
{The Jewish way of describing an infinite number of years, at least until the Eternal State arrives.}
[SUP]16 [/SUP] the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] saying, “To you I will give the land of Canaan, as your portion for an inheritance.”

That makes the theory that the Church is Spiritual Israel, a TOTAL MYTH.

Galatians 3:6-7 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

AND those two verses DO NOT MAKE US Spiritual Israelites. How do I know? Abraham was NOT an Israelite. He was from Ur of Chaldea. IF you want to call yourself a spiritual Chaldean, I suppose you can.

GOD is not finished with Israel!

I think we just about wore this thread out, time to find another one.

popeye · Jan 15, 2017

VCO said:

I agree with some of what you say,but oddly enough,the way we KNOW the bible is truth,is not from mans awesome hand in preservation,but rather that the book is spirit and life.

IOW,the spirit itself bears witness.

The concept of "cessationism" strikes at the heart of Jesus ministry,asserting no more equipping of HIS workers,just a history book of "what once was".

....and now,a different weaker church with a Jesus in some sort of retirement.

stonesoffire · Jan 15, 2017

And that's sad for us to see....how much sadder for the Lord. But...there's something stirring new and fresh.

popeye · Jan 15, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Yes,we are the branch grafted in. We are Jews via"purchase". We were "bought with a price".....a paid for bride

VCO · Jan 15, 2017

popeye said:

NO, not Jews, we are are however, the Assembly He has been Building; literally we are the Other Fold, that Jesus spoke of.

John 10:14-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold{Pentecost is the birthday of the Church, the people Jesus is speaking to here, are the Last of the O.T. Saints}; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. {The one flock is made up of two folds.}
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."

John 15:5-6 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

We are not spiritual Israelites, but both O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are IN CHRIST. We are NOT grafted into becoming Jewish Believers, WE ARE GRAFTED INTO CHRIST.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Surprise! The word Church is NOT found in the original Greek Language manuscripts that our English Bibles were translated from. In the original Greek that word ekklêsia literally translates to "an assembly", which was the exact same thing He called the Congregation of true Believers of the O.T. He has been building HIS ASSEMBLY ever since Creation, starting with ADAM. When the Bible was first translated into English, some time before the 1611 KJV; those early Translators chose to use the Title the Assembly of Believers was calling itself, instead translating that word LITERALLY. I think they did us a great disservice in not sticking with the Word that GOD HIMSELF INSPIRED. It has caused a great deal of confusion and misunderstandings over the Centuries.

O.T. Saints believed GOD would Send the Messiah.

N.T. Saints believe GOD did Send the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

IT IS THE SAME FAITH.

IT IS THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

O.T. and N.T. Saints:
Are both His Sheep,
Are both the one Flock,
Are both one of the two Folds,
Are both IN CHRIST THE MESSIAH,
Are both part of the Bride of Christ,
Are both going to be CALLED OUT to go to the Wedding of the LAMB,
And are both part of the Great Multitude that will be standing before the Throne of GOD.

Revelation 7:9-10 (YLT)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I saw, and lo, a great multitude, which to number no one was able, out of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and crying with a great voice, saying, `The salvation is to Him who is sitting upon the throne--to our God, and to the Lamb!'

Ezekiel 34:30-31 (NRSV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] They shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] You are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture and I am your God, says the Lord God.

Jeremiah 2:2-3 (NRSV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD: I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Israel was holy to the LORD,the first fruits of his harvest. All who ate of it were held guilty; disaster came upon them, says the LORD.

Isaiah 62:5 (NRSV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a young woman, so shall your builder {Mat. 16:18 above} marry you, and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you.

Many Messianic Jews falsely insist only Israel is the Bride, just like most of us falsely think only the Church is the Bride of Christ. WE HAVE BOTH BEEN WRONG, we, the two folds, have always been the ONE FLOCK OF SHEEP THE LORD HIMSELF HAS BEEN BUILDING. It is time we FACE the Truth and start acting like the ASSEMBLY HE HAS BEEN BUILDING.

So scoot over and make room for our Brothers and Sisters from the Old Testament, because THEY WILL BE WITH US, throughout the 1000 Year Kingdom and throughout all Eternity.

VCO · Jan 16, 2017

popeye said:

t t t

Tongues had NO purpose other than it was a sign to unbelievers, especially JEWS, that the new words the Apostles were preaching actually came from GOD. That purpose ended with the completion of the New Testament. That is why NOBODY is hearing in their own native dialects anymore. NOW we are supposed to be doing the work of Evangelists, not seeking signs and wonders.

2 Timothy 4:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But be thou sober in all things, suffer hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry.

If you are seeking to speak in Tongues, then you are NOT DOING THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST, ARE YOU? The work of an Evangelist is finding someone who knows less than you about Jesus Christ, and teaching them. Seeking to speak in Tongues is taking your focus OFF of HIS MISSION FOR US, and putting that focus on SELF.

VCO · Jan 16, 2017

VCO said:

NO, not Jews, we are are however, the Assembly He has been Building; literally we are the Other Fold, that Jesus spoke of.

John 10:14-18 (NKJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And other sheep I have which are not of this fold{Pentecost is the birthday of the Church, the people Jesus is speaking to here, are the Last of the O.T. Saints}; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. {The one flock is made up of two folds.}
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father."

John 15:5-6 (NIV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

We are not spiritual Israelites, but both O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are IN CHRIST. We are NOT grafted into becoming Jewish Believers, WE ARE GRAFTED INTO CHRIST.

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Surprise! The word Church is NOT found in the original Greek Language manuscripts that our English Bibles were translated from. In the original Greek that word ekklêsia literally translates to "an assembly", which was the exact same thing He called the Congregation of true Believers of the O.T. He has been building HIS ASSEMBLY ever since Creation, starting with ADAM. When the Bible was first translated into English, some time before the 1611 KJV; those early Translators chose to use the Title the Assembly of Believers was calling itself, instead translating that word LITERALLY. I think they did us a great disservice in not sticking with the Word that GOD HIMSELF INSPIRED. It has caused a great deal of confusion and misunderstandings over the Centuries.

O.T. Saints believed GOD would Send the Messiah.

N.T. Saints believe GOD did Send the Messiah, Jesus Christ.

IT IS THE SAME FAITH.

IT IS THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM.

O.T. and N.T. Saints:
Are both His Sheep,
Are both the one Flock,
Are both one of the two Folds,
Are both IN CHRIST THE MESSIAH,
Are both part of the Bride of Christ,
Are both going to be CALLED OUT to go to the Wedding of the LAMB,
And are both part of the Great Multitude that will be standing before the Throne of GOD.

Revelation 7:9-10 (YLT)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After these things I saw, and lo, a great multitude, which to number no one was able, out of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and crying with a great voice, saying, `The salvation is to Him who is sitting upon the throne--to our God, and to the Lamb!'

Ezekiel 34:30-31 (NRSV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] They shall know that I, the LORD their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, says the Lord God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] You are my sheep, the sheep of my pasture and I am your God, says the Lord God.

Jeremiah 2:2-3 (NRSV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD: I remember the devotion of your youth, your love as a bride, how you followed me in the wilderness, in a land not sown.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Israel was holy to the LORD,the first fruits of his harvest. All who ate of it were held guilty; disaster came upon them, says the LORD.

Isaiah 62:5 (NRSV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For as a young man marries a young woman, so shall your builder {Mat. 16:18 above} marry you, and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you.

Many Messianic Jews falsely insist only Israel is the Bride, just like most of us falsely think only the Church is the Bride of Christ. WE HAVE BOTH BEEN WRONG, we, the two folds, have always been the ONE FLOCK OF SHEEP THE LORD HIMSELF HAS BEEN BUILDING. It is time we FACE the Truth and start acting like the ASSEMBLY HE HAS BEEN BUILDING.

So scoot over and make room for our Brothers and Sisters from the Old Testament, because THEY WILL BE WITH US, throughout the 1000 Year Kingdom and throughout all Eternity.

They say a picture is worth a Thousand Words, so let me add this:

To to help everyone understand grafting, I will show you a picture of how they raise English Walnut Trees in California. They start by growing a Black Walnut Tree, which has deeper Roots, that get to more water, and are more disease and insect resistant than English Walnuts. Then later they graft in English Walnut branches.

So picture the Roots and the lower part of the Trunks as being Jesus Christ who provides the spiritual Life and Nourishment to all the Branches.

Leave the Lower Black Walnut Branches that represent the O.T. True Believers.

At the point of Messiah being Cut Off, begins the point where N.T. True Believers are grafted in.

The Sum Total of ALL THE BRANCHES is the ASSEMBLY that CHRIST has Built.

Therefore, only the Lower Branches are Israel,

And only the upper Branches are the Church

and the Sum Total of all the Branches is the BRIDE of CHRIST.

How a Graft is made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlDbeiwiWjs

Here is an interesting use for the grafted point in the Wood, showing the distinct line in the wood which can represent the fact that there remains a distinction line between O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints, YET the TOTAL of BOTH truely is ONE ASSEMBLY.

VCO · Jan 17, 2017

NOTICE: In the above POST #1009, with the upper part of the Black Walnut Trunk representing ISRAEL, the English Walnut branches representing the Church; the English Walnut branches, do not become Black Walnut or ISRAEL, even though they are thoroughly grafted in. But we are BOTH part of the ASSEMBLY HE HAS BUILT.

VCO · Jan 17, 2017

popeye said:

I have explained this several times before, but one more time.

Spiritual Gifts and Spiritual Signs and Works of Miracles, are two different things.

Spiritual Gifts are for the Church, and Signs and Works of Miracles were for the APOSTLES to confirm to unbelievers that the N.T. was genuinely coming from GOD, just like the O.T. Paul included them together to the Church at Corinth, because they were confusing both with the Tongues and wonders that were demonstrated in Corinth's Mystery Religions, especially the worship of APOLLO. PAUL DID NOT INCLUDE a single SIGN or Work of Miracles in the list of Spiritual Gifts in his letter to Romans, because they did not have that confusion that Corinth did. Plus it is possible that there was NONE in the Church at Rome that had seen the resurrected CHRIST, the major requirement for one to even have the use for Spiritual Signs and Miracles.

Romans 12:4-10 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach;
[SUP]8 [/SUP] if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.

Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.

1 Corinthians 14:22 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] It follows that speaking in ⌊other⌋ languages is intended as a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers. But prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers.

presidente · Jan 17, 2017

VCO said:

Philip the evangelist, one of the seven, and Stephen, one of the seven, also did signs as they evangelized in Acts. Mark 16 says 'these signs shall follow them that believe.'

Notice we can see Philip as an archetype of the evangelist, since he is the first one called an evangelist, and one of only two men with whom the word is associated. Both Philip and Stephen are often considered deacons since they were appointed to 'serve.'

Paul points contrasts what they experienced in paganism with the manifestations of the Spirit. To say they were confusing Christian with pagan practices is pure speculation. Maybe the pagans called what they did pneumatika, and Paul was using that also for the spiritual gifts, so that may help in understanding the opening to I Corinthians 12.

Show us where the Bible teaches that this was the reason Paul did not mention miracles in the list of spiritual gifts in Romans 12. Prophecy is supernatural. He mentioned that. Paul also wanted to visit the Romans so that he might impart a spiritual gifts. He wrote to the Corinthians of coming behind in no spiritual gifts. For all the Corinthian church's problems, faults, and moral failures, there was a good thing about the church, that there were a lot of spiritual gifts.

This is totally man-made doctrine. Did Moses see the risen Christ before he split the Red Sea? Is there any reason to think that Stephen or Philip saw the risen Christ? The disciples did miracles before Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus corrected the disciples for telling other people not to cast out demon's in Jesus' name, implying that casting out demons in his name is a sign, or miracle, depending on what translation you use. Those people hadn't seen Jesus rise from the dead. Mark 16 does not say that 'them that believe' all had to have seen the risen Jesus.

I see no reason why a miracle that serves to the body 'for the common good' might not also double as a sign or wonder. The Corinthian Christians probably had not all seen the risen Christ.

We don't know that Barnabas had seen the risen Christ, yet he and Paul did miracles among the Gentiles. Both are referred to as 'apostles.'

VCO · Jan 19, 2017

The Hindu Kundalini Awakening movement, has a demon spirit that they think of as their Holy Spirit, giving them the ability to do miracle healings and speaking in Tongues, which ALL - look identical - to what is happening in the Charismatic Movement. YET I see almost NO Pentecostals or Charismatics willing to TEST THE SPIRITS, to see if it could be the Kundalini evil spirit generating the Charismatic experience. It appears to me that their lack of willingness to TEST THE SPIRITS, is based on a FALSE ASSUMPTION that if it is happening in a Church and feels good, it is obvious that it is of the Holy Spirit of GOD.

Dave Hunt warned Pentecostals and Charismatics, in a video decades ago, "You are setting yourself up to believe the lying signs and wonders."

2 Thessalonians 2:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

See it, Satan can provide ALL POWER to do real miracles, and Satan and/or evil spirits can generate SIGNS and tongues is a sign, and LYING WONDERS.

So what is Lying Wonders?

Isn't that obviously a reference to the Religious Con-Artists we see on TV today?

[video=youtube;a5ZvPwFamqs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5ZvPwFamqs&t=368s[/video]

presidente · Jan 20, 2017

VCO, you see a very limited percentage of what is going on.

Andrew Strom, the guy who made the videos that started the thing of calling some of this stuff Kundalini believes in prophecy, miracles, signs and wonders. He was very anti Toronto Blessing on discussion forums back in the early 1990's.

I wouldn't endorse everything that happens in the Pentecostal or Charismatic movement. I wouldn't say nothing false or bad happens. But what I do say is that we need to believe Biblical teachings on gifts of the Spirit. There were false prophets going as far back as the Old Testament. The fact that there were false prophets does not mean that all the prophets were false or that all the miracles were false. Those who practiced the dark arts could make their sticks turn into snakes, too, through their dark arts. That doesn't make the miracle Moses did bad.

Placid · Jan 23, 2017

Hi VCO,

Quote from Post 1008:
Tongues had NO purpose other than it was a sign to unbelievers, especially JEWS, that the new words the Apostles were preaching actually came from GOD. That purpose ended with the completion of the New Testament. That is why NOBODY is hearing in their own native dialects anymore. NOW we are supposed to be doing the work of Evangelists, not seeking signs and wonders.
If you are seeking to speak in Tongues, then you are NOT DOING THE WORK OF AN EVANGELIST, ARE YOU? The work of an Evangelist is finding someone who knows less than you about Jesus Christ, and teaching them. Seeking to speak in Tongues is taking your focus OFF of HIS MISSION FOR US, and putting that focus on SELF.

Response: --- It has been the opinion of some like yourself who believe that the gift of tongues was for the days of the Apostles, but we find evidence of Christian leaders today who have the gift of tongues.

Some years ago in our ministry we invited a guest speaker who was a prominent Pastor of a large Church and was in demand as a speaker. A group of us were on the platform before he spoke and during the preliminaries he was softly 'praying in the Spirit.' which is 'speaking in an unknown language.' --- I knew him and felt comfortable with him and he no doubt was constantly strengthened in his ministry because he had the gift that Paul explained in 1 Corinthians 14.

--- And in the Armor of God' that we are to put on, --- the last defensive and offensive weapon is 'praying in the spirit,' in Ephesians 6:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.
--- Also we have a profound teaching of how the Holy Spirit works in believers in Romans 8:
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called 'according to His purpose.'

If we couple these verses together, --- "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit," --- and "supplication for all the saints,"
--- "For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

So those who pray in the Spirit on behalf of the saints may not know the real needs of those they are praying for, --- So the Spirit prays through the person, 'for the saints, ACCORDING TO THE WILL OF GOD.'

--- So that is the purpose of 'praying in the Spirit on behalf of others.'

There is more, including this question, "Did Jesus ever speak in an unknown language?

shittim · Jan 23, 2017

After the Apostles died the early Church Fathers wrote of dealing with the same issues of
how to work with the Gifts in the early church, there was no cessation, He is the same , yesterday, today, and forever.

CS1 · Jan 23, 2017

VCO said:

that is opinionated . to try and link Hinduism into the christian faith when I have never ever heard of any christian even speaking of the Holy Spirit as some demonic Spirit over taking the God of the bible. to interject that false narrative just because you have an issue with a doctrine you do not believe in is very irresponsible. You say almost no Pentecostal is willing to test the spirit? That too is not true but your opinion . it sounds like if people call on Jesus and worship Jesus and believe what 1 Corthians chapter 12, 13, 14 says a demon will show up instead ? wow ! That is completely ridiculous. Jesus said signs and wonder will follow the believer , the Bible says pray for the sick and they shall be healed never in all my studies have I ever been taught that IF I seek the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer a demon would show up. you can have the opinion that the gifts have stopped but to interject this hundu demon into what Pentecostals. charsmatics believe is not true .

I believe the God of the bible heals everyday, saves everyday, provides for everyday. Just as HE did in the Bible . HE is God and HE changes not the same yesterday today and forever. tongues are a gift of the Holy Spirit as 1 Corinthians chapter 12, 13, 14 teaches. IT is not a hindu demon. God has not Given me a Spirit of fear but of power, love , and a health mind.

VCO · Jan 23, 2017

Placid said:

I will answer your last question first. NO, in fact He forbade a private prayer language.

Matthew 6:7-15 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Give us today our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

What JESUS is commanding us to do, is NOT TO MEMORIZE this prayer and repeat it over and over and over. He is commanding us to use that prayer as a MODEL for ALL OF OUR PRAYERS, and that CERTAINLY means to pray in our own language that is totally understandable to us.

NOW, see the words that I turned to red in your post. What does CANNOT BE UTTERED mean where you grew up? If they are uttering it, it is NOT the Holy Spirit uttering it through them. Being led by the spirit in our prayers, DOES NOT MEAN WE ABANDON OUR OWN UNDERSTANDABLE LANGUAGE.

My MAJOR concern is that VERY, VERY FEW Charismatics cannot tell the difference:

1. between the pagan Hindu counterfeit tongues and the real Apostolic TONGUES,
2. and between Ecstatic Psychological Utterances and the real Apostolic TONGUES,
3. and between the Satanic Counterfeit of tongues and the real Apostolic TONGUES.

Here is how I tell the difference biblically:

2 Corinthians 12:12 (ASV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, by signs and wonders and mighty works.

1 Corinthians 14:22 (ESV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

Any believer who had actually seen the resurrected Christ could call himself an apostle, and thus the Church at Corinth had some apostles, not to be confused with the 12 Apostles.

How do you plan on telling the differences between the Counterfeits and the GENUINE TONGUES?

Before you answer that, PLEASE watch the film in my Post #1013 above. That film is produced by Andrew Strom, a 25 year veteran of the Charismatic Movement; who believes in speaking in tongues. He is exposing a false Holy Spirit that is coming out of the Hindu Kundalini Cult, and is invading many Charismatic and Pentecostal Churches; and most of their membership actually think the experience is coming from our Holy Spirit.

Matthew 24:24 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

2 Thessalonians 2:8-9 (ASV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] even he, whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

I REPEAT: How do you plan on telling the differences between the Counterfeits and the GENUINE TONGUES?

shittim · Jan 23, 2017

I give thanks to G-d for His wisdom in giving us a prayer language that
we might be in relationship.

VCO · Jan 23, 2017

shittim said:

He did give us a language, it is called ENGLISH.

Matthew 6:7-15 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]"This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Give us today our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

THE MODEL FOR ALL PRAYER.

Watch the previous video.

Tongues Again???

Senior Member

Poetic Member

Senior Member

popeye

Guest

Poetic Member

popeye

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member