Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[AllenW]

Too many people going in too many directions here.
I guess you could say it causes me to lose interest.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am continually being saved by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Thank God.

 

[88]

Hello 88,

It is God who chose those whom He wanted to save and that not based on anything that we have done or will do, but by God's sovereign selection. Consider the following:

"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,"

=====================================

Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

====================================

"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come."

===================================

Regarding the above scripture demonstrates that everyone that God selected, their names were written in the book of life before the world began and that there were names that were not written. However, those whose names that were written must still have faith and remain in that faith. According to what Jesus said, it is possible for names to be blotted out of the book of life.

"Like them, the one who is victorious will be clothed in white garments. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels."

Regarding the above, the promise of not blotting an indiviuals name out of the book of life, is to the believer who is victorious. Therefore it would be the opposite for those who are not victorious.

**** it is mysterious but God knowing and choosing Scriptures----- and whosoever may come too God Scriptures are not opposed---- God' s foreknowledge and election does not mean we are destined to be saved----- God's Grace is great but not violating free will and choice---- the choice rests with us---- not God---- since Good knows everything and acts on His knowledge does not mean we do not choose freely...

 

[PrynceNY]

Never seen that doctrine. All I pulled from was the Bible so with that many scripture speaking on chosen elect its hard to ignore what they wanted us to know.

I personally don't go by osas either but people will believe in what they want to that's between them & God

 

[Roughsoul1991]

So we are puppets after all.
I could love and praise God and still go to hell by your reasoning.

This is why I do not understand the meaning of these scriptures I posted above. I grew up being taught everyone who excepts and lives for Jesus could be saved. In less God knows already who will except him and who will not then maybe that's the meaning of these scriptures. But I also did not agree with once saved always saved. I believed that a Christian who no longer lives for Christ but maybe just a Christian on Sunday but opposite during the week, would not be living as Christ taught. Does that mean they are still saved? I didn't think so but if some are chosen then that would mean the ones that fall away was never really chosen?

 

[FranC]

You ask a hard and difficult yet very important question. This is a subject that I have yet to find a refutable answer to because people who oppose what I believe are very good at countering it becomes an endless argument but I will say my piece and you can take what you wish of it.

You know the parable of the prodigal son yes? what do you think meaning of this parable is? To me it speaks of a child of his that lost his way who once was saved but become to distracted by the things of the world and wandered however upon returning to the fathers arms was welcome with love and joy the father was so overjoyed because he came back.

This is the kind of father I see in God I see a love that goes beyond comprehension I believe Jesus would have gone through all he did a thousand times over for just one lost soul no matter how evil no matter how blood stained their souls because that is the kind of love I saw in him. Jesus said he didn't come for the healthy he came for the sick and he died for all people both good and bad so he must have seen something in even the worst of people worth fighting for worth suffering for and worth dying for.

For predestination to be true that would mean that he predestined certain people to hell no matter what they did and if this is true then why even bother? Why send the only son he had to die if it was only for a select group? This is not what love is. Love is willing to go the extreme of extremes for the sake of even one lost soul at least that is the love he filled in me and such a fiery love for others never existed in me until I met him. If there is even a .000001 percent chance a person can be saved I will never give up them I will without hesitation burn in the very fires of hell itself for a time so that they might be able to be saved and come to know him and have the kind of bond and love I have with him.

The reason I don't believe in predestination is because of how far I am willing to go for the sake of only one lost soul no matter how evil they are no matter how cold their hearts or how blood stained their souls. A love such as that the willingness to go that far isn't human. If God's love is truly as vast and deep as people claim ask yourself how far do you think he is willing to go to hold every lost child in his arms?

Hi Blain,
I agree with everything you've said and I also find the parable of the Prodigal Son to be a very good example of how one could decide to leave his father and then return one day.

I'd just like to say that the bible does speak about predestination. God knows who would come to be saved and that person is predestined to be unto the image of Christ. This is what is predestined, NOT the salvation of that person, but that the person becomes endowed with the attributes of Christ - (they do not become Christ!).

This is what these verses are referring to in reference to predestination:
Ephesians 1:4-5
Romans 8:29
2 Timothy 1:9

Fran

 

[FranC]

Too many people going in too many directions here.
I guess you could say it causes me to lose interest.

Don't lose interest, AllenW.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Not again! Go to the bottom of this page and pick any one of the referenced thread. This same ole same ole was beaten to death the first year I was on this site. There is nothing new to add to it. Do the research instead of trying to revive the dead and beaten horse.

So would it had been stupid for the early observers of the sky who thought the earth was flat to reexamine that Job and Isaiah both talk about the earth being round. Job being one of the oldest books in the Bible told the earth was round. But yet it took people a lot longer to figure it out. The Bible has so much to teach it would be dumb for us to believe we know all of scripture. God has something to teach all generations.
[h=1]Job 26:7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]7 He stretches the northern skies over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Isaiah 40:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]22 God is enthroned above the circle of the earth;
its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Blain]

Hi Blain,
I agree with everything you've said and I also find the parable of the Prodigal Son to be a very good example of how one could decide to leave his father and then return one day.

I'd just like to say that the bible does speak about predestination. God knows who would come to be saved and that person is predestined to be unto the image of Christ. This is what is predestined, NOT the salvation of that person, but that the person becomes endowed with the attributes of Christ - (they do not become Christ!).

This is what these verses are referring to in reference to predestination:
Ephesians 1:4-5
Romans 8:29
2 Timothy 1:9

Fran

That's an interesting way of understanding it. So forgive me if I misunderstand but what your saying is that salvation is not what was predestined but rather the depth of his attributes? Like anyone can be saved but he knew before hand who would take on his image?

 

[blue_ladybug]

YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. Once you're saved, you're good. 'nuff said..

 

[Blain]

So would it had been stupid for the early observers of the sky who thought the earth was flat to reexamine that Job and Isaiah both talk about the earth being round. Job being one of the oldest books in the Bible told the earth was round. But yet it took people a lot longer to figure it out. The Bible has so much to teach it would be dumb for us to believe we know all of scripture. God has something to teach all generations.
[h=1]Job 26:7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT="][FONT="]7 He stretches the northern skies over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Isaiah 40:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT="][FONT=Arial][B]22 [/B][/FONT]God is enthroned above the circle of the earth;
its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.[/FONT]

[FONT="]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

I apologize for her snappy post, you did nothing wrong you had no idea this subject was a worn out one and like I said it is an important one. however even though it is a worn out subject I don't think that means we shouldn't discuss it, if we never ask the questions we never know the answers and honestly this thread has so far gone better than the others ones on this topic usually by now we have about 7-8 pages of fiery arrows at each others and this thread has two pages with a pretty decent amount of good discussion.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Not again! Go to the bottom of this page and pick any one of the referenced thread. This same ole same ole was beaten to death the first year I was on this site. There is nothing new to add to it. Do the research instead of trying to revive the dead and beaten horse.

So would it had been stupid for the early observers of the sky who thought the earth was flat to reexamine that Job and Isaiah both talk about the earth being round. Job being one of the oldest books in the Bible told the earth was round. But yet it took people a lot longer to figure it out. The Bible has so much to teach it would be dumb for us to believe we know all of scripture. God has something to teach all generations.
Job 26:7Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

7 He stretches the northern skies over empty space;
He hangs the earth on nothing.

Isaiah 40:22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

22 God is enthroned above the circle of the earth;
its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Oops computer lagged

 

[John146]

Another thread and more proof that people do not know how to rightly divide the word of truth. People wrest Scripture for one dispensation and place it upon another to prove salvation can be lost. Eternal salvation is always through Jesus Christ and is not dependent upon man to keep what has been entrusted to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ will keep it. Jesus Christ is faithful even when we are not faithful.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. Once you're saved, you're good. 'nuff said..

Even if I was turn away from God and do whatever I wanted to? I would still be saved? Just don't make since.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

But hey if that'd true the gates to heaven must not be as narrow as God says

 

[Blain]

YOU CANNOT LOSE YOUR SALVATION. Once you're saved, you're good. 'nuff said..

Lady blue and I are a perfect example of how things should be in the church. She and I disagree on certain things such as osas however we don't let that ruin our bond we can discuss these things without attacking each other.
If the body could only not let their differences divide itself then maybe the word christian would not leave a bitter taste in peoples mouths

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yes, even then. We don't lose our salvation because we turn away from God. If that were true, none of us would have any salvation at all. What doesn't make sense is that people actually believe that you have to get saved over and over, when you sin. Think about this: did JESUS die more than once to save us? NO because ONCE is all it takes. Just like salvation.

Even if I was turn away from God and do whatever I wanted to? I would still be saved? Just don't make since.

 

[blue_ladybug]

EVERY ONE of us have strayed off the straight and narrow path. God is patient, and he is forgiving.As long as we (eventually) repent, he WILL forgive us. And I believe that at the final judgement, He will give us that one last chance to repent.

But hey if that'd true the gates to heaven must not be as narrow as God says

 

[Blain]

Yes, even then. We don't lose our salvation because we turn away from God. If that were true, none of us would have any salvation at all. What doesn't make sense is that people actually believe that you have to get saved over and over, when you sin. Think about this: did JESUS die more than once to save us? NO because ONCE is all it takes. Just like salvation.

This part right here (hat doesn't make sense is that people actually believe that you have to get saved over and over, when you sin) This is an issue for a dear friend of mine, she was my high school teacher and helped me escape my mom I live her currently and i feel sorry for her because she believes this firmly she doesn't understand what grace is and believes if she dies without asking for forgiveness for a single sin she did that day she will go to hell. Sadly I cannot help her understand differently because she gets super upset when I try to talk to her about this stuff