Explanation of Isaiah 45:7

[blue_ladybug]

Okay so I came across this picture with Isaiah 45:7 on it. I know that some here believe that God created evil, and that verse seems to bear the proof. BUT if He did/does NOT create evil, then why does He say that He creates it in this verse? Thoughts, comments are all welcome. Please keep it civil and polite, and stay on the topic. Thanks.

 

[Grace777x70]

My way of thinking is that when God brings light - it reveals the darkness and this brings forth evil and thus it is "created".

This is different from Him deliberately directly creating evil Himself.

The very act of God bringing good - "creates this evil that arises" when it is in opposition to it.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Interesting point.. But then that makes me ask this question, instead of using the word "create"why doesn't God say "expose"?? My line of thought is that obviously He allows evil for a reason, despite hating evil. So why does He tolerate evil if He hates it and doesn't create it?

My way of thinking is that when God brings light - it reveals the darkness and this brings forth evil and thus it is "created".

This is different from Him deliberately directly creating evil Himself.

The very act of God bringing good - "creates this evil that arises" when it is in opposition to it.

 

[nowyouseem033]

An accurate rendering of 'God creating evil', does not mean the evil of sin but it means the evil of punishment.

Evil used here is not 'moral evil' but it is used to describe such things as calamities and disasters, ignorance and disappointments. For this God ordains and uses to bring about his purposes. God works all things.....for the good of those that love him.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Good morning, ladybug!
I recently had a thread on this very subject. It wasn't well received by a lot of people, but I truly do believe it and will share it again.

I think that when He says He creates darkness, it is by a negative instead of a positive creation. There is an outer darkness. He sends someone there by casting them from His presence. So it is not a positive creation of "let there be." It is a negative creation via a withholding of light or casting from the light. So darkness is not created and then it overcomes light. Darkness can only be if the light is turned off.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Contextually, the verse is dealing with natural disasters and human comfort issues. It is not speaking of moral evil, but calamity, distress, etc.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hmmm.. The highlighted red portion sort of makes sense. I never thought about it that way before. Which brings up another question. After the flood, God promised to never again destroy the earth (entirely). So why does He keep destroying it bit by bit with tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and the such? Those all ruin quite alot of the earth, it's inhabitants, and the earth's natural resources..

An accurate rendering of 'God creating evil', does not mean the evil of sin but it means the evil of punishment.

Evil used here is not 'moral evil' but it is used to describe such things as calamities and disasters, ignorance and disappointments. For this God ordains and uses to bring about his purposes. God works all things.....for the good of those that love him.

 

[nowyouseem033]

All you have to do is look at the context and the text itself.
Whats the opposite of light? Darkness.
Whats the opposite of Peace? Chaos and destruction.

Why doesn't the author use the phrase God creates sin? instead of the phrase God creates evil. I think because the author himself believes he doesn't create sin but given the context of his writing (a time where he sees persecution and judgement handed down by nations) he attributes these things which are evil to God as the orchestrater of.

Thought: All sin is evil, but not all evil is sinful?

Maybe an instigation for more distinctions but yeah in this context Isaiah is referencing disaster not moral sin to God

 

[Grace777x70]

Interesting point.. But then that makes me ask this question, instead of using the word "create"why doesn't God say "expose"?? My line of thought is that obviously He allows evil for a reason, despite hating evil. So why does He tolerate evil if He hates it and doesn't create it?

The Hebrew word here is "to form or fashion" so maybe this might have something to do with the understanding of creating.

Let me say it this way:

I stand up and declare in a Muslim country that "Jesus is Lord". Someone kills me for saying that so in a sense I have "created or formed" this evil to come about from my actions.

God did do something about the evil in this earth with the work of His Son. And this will all be dealt with when Jesus comes back to the earth.

There is also something to do with authority that man was given by God on this earth.

Psalm 115:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

How man uses that authority in this earth will determine what comes about to us.

Proverbs 29:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

We seem to be the 3rd voice in the earth between what heaven wants on earth. Maybe a better term may be "we are the determining or establishing voice" of what happens on this earth.

We have authority as a person on the earth and yet all authority has been given to Christ now so we are under His Lordship and authority now.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yes, but the verse doesn't say He creates darkness. It says He creates evil. I suppose evil could be described as darkness. Now in reference to nowyouseem's response, when God sends hurricanes, tsunamis, etc,isn't he just exacting his wrath on those who he deems too sinful to live any longer?

Good morning, ladybug!
I recently had a thread on this very subject. It wasn't well received by a lot of people, but I truly do believe it and will share it again.

I think that when He says He creates darkness, it is by a negative instead of a positive creation. There is an outer darkness. He sends someone there by casting them from His presence. So it is not a positive creation of "let there be." It is a negative creation via a withholding of light or casting from the light. So darkness is not created and then it overcomes light. Darkness can only be if the light is turned off.

 

[nowyouseem033]

Hmmm.. The highlighted red portion sort of makes sense. I never thought about it that way before. Which brings up another question. After the flood, God promised to never again destroy the earth (entirely). So why does He keep destroying it bit by bit with tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and the such? Those all ruin quite alot of the earth, it's inhabitants, and the earth's natural resources..

Im not God so i wouldnt know why... But he works all things according to his will.. Sometimes these things can be a form of judgement upon a nation dont have a full an concise answer though.

 

[JesusLives]

Posting different versions that help to shed light on the meaning.


New International Version
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

New Living Translation
I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things.

English Standard Version
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.

New American Standard Bible
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the LORD who does all these.

King James Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I form light and create darkness, I make success and create disaster; I, Yahweh, do all these things."

International Standard Version
"I form light and create darkness, I make goodness and create disaster. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

NET Bible
I am the one who forms light and creates darkness; the one who brings about peace and creates calamity. I am the LORD, who accomplishes all these things.

New Heart English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am the LORD, who does all these things.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I make light and create darkness. I make blessings and create disasters. I, the LORD, do all these things.

JPS Tanakh 1917
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

New American Standard 1977
The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing well-being and creating calamity;
I am the LORD who does all these.

Jubilee Bible 2000
I form the light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil: I am the LORD that does all this.

King James 2000 Bible
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create calamity: I the LORD do all these things.

American King James Version
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

American Standard Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Douay-Rheims Bible
I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

Darby Bible Translation
forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.

English Revised Version
I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

Webster's Bible Translation
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

World English Bible
I form the light, and create darkness. I make peace, and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I am Jehovah, doing all these things.'

Matthew Henry Commentary
45:5-10 There is no God beside Jehovah. There is nothing done without him. He makes peace, put here for all good; and creates evil, not the evil of sin, but the evil of punishment. He is the Author of all that is true, holy, good, or happy; and evil, error, and misery, came into the world by his permission, through the wilful apostacy of his creatures, but are restrained and overruled to his righteous purpose. This doctrine is applied, for the comfort of those that earnestly longed, yet quietly waited, for the redemption of Israel. The redemption of sinners by the Son of God, and the pouring out the Spirit, to give success to the gospel, are chiefly here intended. We must not expect salvation without righteousness; together the Lord hath created them. Let not oppressors oppose God's designs for his people. Let not the poor oppressed murmur, as if God dealt unkindly with them. Men are but earthen pots; they are broken potsherds, and are very much made so by mutual contentions. To contend with Him is as senseless as for clay to find fault with the potter. Let us turn God's promises into prayers, beseeching him that salvation may abound among us, and let us rest assured that the Judge of all the earth will do right.

 

[blue_ladybug]

So evil is pretty much a cause and effect thing? In other words, WE actually create evil, and God (sometimes)allows it to play out? Because that makes sense. To my brain anyway..lol

The Hebrew word here is "to form or fashion" so maybe this might have something to do with the understanding of creating.

Let me say it this way:

I stand up and declare in a Muslim country that "Jesus is Lord". Someone kills me for saying that so in a sense I have "created or formed" this evil to come about from my actions.

God did do something about the evil in this earth with the work of His Son. And this will all be dealt with when Jesus comes back to the earth.

There is also something to do with authority that man was given by God on this earth.

Psalm 115:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, But the earth He has given to the sons of men.

How man uses that authority in this earth will determine what comes about to us.

Proverbs 29:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.

We seem to be the 3rd voice in the earth between what heaven wants on earth. Maybe a better term may be "we are the determining or establishing voice" of what happens on this earth.

We have authority as a person on the earth and yet all authority has been given to Christ now so we are under His Lordship and authority now.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is another person's view on it. Some things just need revelation from the Lord to see how this all fits together with God's nature.

Anyway - I will post this explanation for consideration. It is long but it's not an easy question either. The answer may be parts of all we have discussed.

QUOTE:

Darkness is the absence of light. The absence of light existed before God created light (Genesis 1:2). So, God didn’t really “create” darkness. But God forms the light and defines anything other than light as darkness. Likewise, the Lord doesn’t create evil, but establishes peace and calls anything else evil.

Vine’s Expository Dictionary says that the Hebrew word “RA’,” which was translated “evil” in this verse, “refers to that which is ‘bad’ or ‘evil,’ in a wide variety of applications.”

Vine’s usage note on this word in this verse says, “In Isaiah 45:7 Yahweh describes His actions by saying, ’...I make peace, and create evil [RA’]...’; moral ‘evil’ is not intended in this context, but rather the antithesis of SHALOM (‘peace; welfare; well-being’). The whole verse affirms that as absolute Sovereign, the Lord creates a universe governed by a moral order. Calamity and misfortune will surely ensue from the wickedness of ungodly men.”


Therefore, this verse is saying that God creates moral order and defines anything that doesn’t conform to that morality as evil. Only in that sense does He create evil. He determines or defines what evil is. This is not saying the Lord originates or promotes evil.

The Scriptures do say the Lord sent evil angels among people (Psalms 78:49). This is in reference to the death angel passing among the Egyptians and killing all the firstborn (Exodus 12:29-30). This angel wasn’t evil in the sense that it was demonic, but it was evil in the sense that it brought evil or punishment upon the Egyptians.

The American Heritage Dictionary says the word “evil” means not only “morally bad or wrong; wicked,” but it also means “harmful, injurious.” The death angel and other angels who brought the plagues on Egypt were “evil” in the sense that they were harmful to the Egyptians.

This is the way “the evil spirit from the LORD” (1 Samuel 16:14-16) was upon Saul. This wasn’t a demonic spirit but a godly angelic spirit that was sent for punishment upon Saul. It was God’s judgment upon Saul. Things like that will not happen to us as New Testament believers. All of our judgment has been placed on Jesus (see my note at John 12:32).

Andrew Wommack's Living Commentary.

 

[nowyouseem033]

So evil is pretty much a cause and effect thing? In other words, WE actually create evil, and God (sometimes)allows it to play out? Because that makes sense. To my brain anyway..lol

God allows evil to exist because it demonstrates the wonders of his grace.

otherwise it wouldnt exist if it doesnt serve him and his purposes.

 

[JesusLives]

After reading some of the different versions - I know that God is in the life saving business and it sounds as though He will use any method needed to encourage someone to turn to Him.... so if that be a calamity or disaster etc. if they turn to God mission accomplished....

God knows everything so He knew evil existed but certainly never wanted it unleashed - His created beings unleashed it.


Well that's my take on it.... Blond

 

[Chesediel]

Well God is the ultimate authority. I think the following verses also help to explain this verse.

 

[Grace777x70]

So evil is pretty much a cause and effect thing? In other words, WE actually create evil, and God (sometimes)allows it to play out? Because that makes sense. To my brain anyway..lol

Yes...lol

Let's say that you are Julia Roberts and what you wear "creates" fashion in the world.

You wear a particular kind of clothes this year and now the fashion designers are making clothes from what you have "created" with your fashion wearing.

This year however you Julia "change your fashion wearing". All those designers that have boat-fulls of designs they made because of you will now be obsolete and no one will want them. You have just "created evil" for these fashion designers.

I know it's a lame example but I'm trying to get across the concept of "creating evil" because of something "good" that we have created in the first place.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes, but the verse doesn't say He creates darkness. It says He creates evil. I suppose evil could be described as darkness. Now in reference to nowyouseem's response, when God sends hurricanes, tsunamis, etc,isn't he just exacting his wrath on those who he deems too sinful to live any longer?

Sometimes...He did destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in wrath.
But He also brings calamity to wake men up from their stupor. Some survive tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes.

And yes, I agree that evil is darkness. And in the beginning of our story, darkness just appears to be here. It covers the face of the deep and He never says: Let there be darkness, and it never says: and He saw that it was good. In fact, it never does say, and He saw that it was good, until after He says: let there be light (or, let the light shine in this darkness.)

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Honestly, I'm getting a sense that flames study on the two trees might help us here...I hope she posts it.