Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?
- Thread starter Roughsoul1991
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LOL...Nope....you would be thinking wrong. It was a nice try though...
Falling from faith does not mean you go to hell. It means that their faith would be not working like it should in certain areas while on this earth and thus their lives get ship-wrecked.
Unfortunately those that think they lose salvation always see things through the eyes of going to hell. ( as in no longer Christians )
They are trusting in what they do or don't do instead of trusting in what Christ has done for them. If you notice that in 1 Tim 4. 1-5 - these people are still thinking they are "doing good things for God"...being "holy" in their own ways.
People that have a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief system may or may not be saved. Only the Lord who knows the heart can make that determination. Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks on the heart. Jesus said that the tares look just like the wheat.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever. I am making the judgment call that He's not a liar. Paul said that when we believe - we are sealed with the Holy Spirit - I figure he's not a liar either.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
There are many manifestations of people not being in the faith which is in what the Lord has already done for us. If is with faith and patience we inherit the promises of God. Give up trusting God for peace - and you will not have peace on this earth and your life will be ship-wrecked and we'll be tossed about and not that useful.
Some don't believe that He will bring them peace in any situation - they refuse to believe in that peace and thus - they are not operating in faith in Christ's work. These people will die on this earth and be ship-wrecked in this live because of not experiencing this peace. If they die without peace - do they go to hell now because they were not in faith of what Jesus did for them in this area? Of course not.
Departing from "the faith" - means not trusting in what Christ has done for us.
Falling from faith does not mean you go to hell. It means that their faith would be not working like it should in certain areas while on this earth and thus their lives get ship-wrecked.
Unfortunately those that think they lose salvation always see things through the eyes of going to hell. ( as in no longer Christians )
They are trusting in what they do or don't do instead of trusting in what Christ has done for them. If you notice that in 1 Tim 4. 1-5 - these people are still thinking they are "doing good things for God"...being "holy" in their own ways.
People that have a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief system may or may not be saved. Only the Lord who knows the heart can make that determination. Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks on the heart. Jesus said that the tares look just like the wheat.
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with you and in you forever. I am making the judgment call that He's not a liar. Paul said that when we believe - we are sealed with the Holy Spirit - I figure he's not a liar either.
Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
There are many manifestations of people not being in the faith which is in what the Lord has already done for us. If is with faith and patience we inherit the promises of God. Give up trusting God for peace - and you will not have peace on this earth and your life will be ship-wrecked and we'll be tossed about and not that useful.
Some don't believe that He will bring them peace in any situation - they refuse to believe in that peace and thus - they are not operating in faith in Christ's work. These people will die on this earth and be ship-wrecked in this live because of not experiencing this peace. If they die without peace - do they go to hell now because they were not in faith of what Jesus did for them in this area? Of course not.
Departing from "the faith" - means not trusting in what Christ has done for us.
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The falling away, I believe it will be tribulation that will cause it. In fact as you know the words are parked right there in the middle of it all.
There are those as you know who claim they are of Christ and the body. Yet they are not, this is in the word. There are those who are for a lack of a better term fair weather followers. As long as things aren't hard and they don't get in the fire. They will go along with it. The Bible says basically there will be something that will pit brother against brother. Even family will turn each other in. Apparently to judgement and death. Now there are arguments for pre-trib, what other call mid-trib and post tribe rapture. I think this has something to do with the falling away.
Example: to me there seems to be arguments that mix up tribulation and wrath. I even am in disagreement with my wife about his one. I think most all agree there is the week of Jacobs sorrow, or seven years of trouble. Now when we read Thessalonians and Mathew they echo each other. In fact it clearly states:
7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
To me it clearly states why, tribulation. The thing a lot of people say they won't see. Tribulation is trouble and testing. Christ went through it, the brothers the apostles did. Many after them did. Now even today it has begun on the other side of the world our brothers and sisters are being killed for their faith. It just hasn't caught the world on fire yet. Now it goes on to talk about the false teachers and the anti Christian. Then it says:
9“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
After the tribulation he gathers his elect. This is in perfect alignment with the trumpet in Thessalonians and the words re-iterate the reason for falling away. Because they have no hope. Which ties into the five wise maids and the five foolish and their lamps. Why such grieving? What happened that they would lose hope? Mass extermination/genocide? Causing a falling away? A betrayal In Order to preserve ones life and love it? Note that Matthew reflects those same thing listed bellow, in the clouds, trumpet call, angels gather his elect. Both dead and living. Those who are alive, who are left (after tribulation). Because there will be mass killings of those who do not conform.
◄ 1 Thessalonians
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
So what do I believe? We will see tribulation and be hated by all nations as it is written. Some will be tourmented and killed. These terrible times will cause a great falling away. Now some will argue we are not appointed to wrath. This isn't Gods wrath, that comes upon the earth after we are taken out. Tribulation and wrath are two separate times in the seven years. So it isn't mid-trib, it is end of trib, beginig of wrath and judgement. That is how it reads, that is how I see it. those two (Matt and these)mirror each other perfectly. How can that be explained? Another trumpet? Another gathering in the clouds? No, they are one in the same. As stated immidatly after the tribulation. For you will be hated by all nations. There will be a false version of a Christianity that is promannent. The beast with horns of a lamb (representing itself as Christianity) but speaks as a dragon (rev). Teaches falsely. It will be our own "brotheren" for lack of a better term that will judge us and persecute us causing (a great falling away). For we will be on the side of truth. Not accepting to a false Christian type of teachings. Because others believed they would not see that day, or they fair weatherly accepted some watered down version of Christ. They will say we are heritics, liars, and Blasphemers. Be exceedingly glad in that day for so we're the prophets and brotheren before us also treated in this manner. Christ said in Matthew 16
16“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
So if they did it to the Lord and our brothers of old. Why would they not do it to us? Are we special to avoid standing for our faith? That all the blood from Able to Zachariah shall come upon the earthly inhabitants? Justifying his wrath to be unleashed? That we be a testimony and testament for God? That they hear the truth so that after Gods wrath seeeps them up like the flood of old. They will have no excuse that they did not hear the truth. That they did not see the truth. Rather they ran from the truth.
There are those as you know who claim they are of Christ and the body. Yet they are not, this is in the word. There are those who are for a lack of a better term fair weather followers. As long as things aren't hard and they don't get in the fire. They will go along with it. The Bible says basically there will be something that will pit brother against brother. Even family will turn each other in. Apparently to judgement and death. Now there are arguments for pre-trib, what other call mid-trib and post tribe rapture. I think this has something to do with the falling away.
Example: to me there seems to be arguments that mix up tribulation and wrath. I even am in disagreement with my wife about his one. I think most all agree there is the week of Jacobs sorrow, or seven years of trouble. Now when we read Thessalonians and Mathew they echo each other. In fact it clearly states:
7For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.
9“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10And then many will fall awaya and betray one another and hate one another. 11And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
To me it clearly states why, tribulation. The thing a lot of people say they won't see. Tribulation is trouble and testing. Christ went through it, the brothers the apostles did. Many after them did. Now even today it has begun on the other side of the world our brothers and sisters are being killed for their faith. It just hasn't caught the world on fire yet. Now it goes on to talk about the false teachers and the anti Christian. Then it says:
9“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
After the tribulation he gathers his elect. This is in perfect alignment with the trumpet in Thessalonians and the words re-iterate the reason for falling away. Because they have no hope. Which ties into the five wise maids and the five foolish and their lamps. Why such grieving? What happened that they would lose hope? Mass extermination/genocide? Causing a falling away? A betrayal In Order to preserve ones life and love it? Note that Matthew reflects those same thing listed bellow, in the clouds, trumpet call, angels gather his elect. Both dead and living. Those who are alive, who are left (after tribulation). Because there will be mass killings of those who do not conform.
◄ 1 Thessalonians
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,d that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
So what do I believe? We will see tribulation and be hated by all nations as it is written. Some will be tourmented and killed. These terrible times will cause a great falling away. Now some will argue we are not appointed to wrath. This isn't Gods wrath, that comes upon the earth after we are taken out. Tribulation and wrath are two separate times in the seven years. So it isn't mid-trib, it is end of trib, beginig of wrath and judgement. That is how it reads, that is how I see it. those two (Matt and these)mirror each other perfectly. How can that be explained? Another trumpet? Another gathering in the clouds? No, they are one in the same. As stated immidatly after the tribulation. For you will be hated by all nations. There will be a false version of a Christianity that is promannent. The beast with horns of a lamb (representing itself as Christianity) but speaks as a dragon (rev). Teaches falsely. It will be our own "brotheren" for lack of a better term that will judge us and persecute us causing (a great falling away). For we will be on the side of truth. Not accepting to a false Christian type of teachings. Because others believed they would not see that day, or they fair weatherly accepted some watered down version of Christ. They will say we are heritics, liars, and Blasphemers. Be exceedingly glad in that day for so we're the prophets and brotheren before us also treated in this manner. Christ said in Matthew 16
16“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. 17Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, 18and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. 19When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. 20For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. 21Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
So if they did it to the Lord and our brothers of old. Why would they not do it to us? Are we special to avoid standing for our faith? That all the blood from Able to Zachariah shall come upon the earthly inhabitants? Justifying his wrath to be unleashed? That we be a testimony and testament for God? That they hear the truth so that after Gods wrath seeeps them up like the flood of old. They will have no excuse that they did not hear the truth. That they did not see the truth. Rather they ran from the truth.
S
First of all my post wasn't directed at you it was directed at PennEd. He wasn't talking about hell he was talking about people giving up on their faith which is exactly what Paul talks about in the versus I quoted. What you basically did here was read something into my post that wasn't there and then protest it. The bottom line is apostasy is a real issue in the New Testament and we are warned about it many times. Apostasy is walking away from our faith.
So, you think that these people that have departed from faith are not going to hell then. Ok...most people that don't believe in the security of the believer say that they are going to hell. I apologize to you if that is the case.
I agree that Apostasy is departing from the faith. It has many forms. Those that believe that we lose salvation because of behavior always say we go to hell. That is not put forth in scriptures at all. In fact scriptures say the exact opposite but you are right - there are many warnings in scripture about not holding on to your faith. it is with faith and patience that we inherit the promises of God.
Give up trusting God to bring peace or joy to our life and we are departing from the faith and we will be ship-wrecked in this life and not experience the quality of life that is ours in Christ.
These people that Paul was describing in 1 Tim 4:1-5 that were departing from "the faith" were trusting in their own works. They were NOT doing great sins - like living in a homosexual lifestyle or murdering people - they were wanting to do "good things for God" - like not be married and not eating certain foods to keep themselves clean.
Notice that in this verse Paul says they are gone astray from the faith because they have worldly and empty chatter and opposing arguments called "knowledge". This is anything contrary to the finished work of Christ. Saved by grace through faith only. This causes us to be led astray from "the faith".
"The faith" is all that Christ has already done for us from the cross to the resurrection - it does NOT mean going to church, reading your Bibles, praying in tongues for 6 hours a day...etc.
1 Timothy 6:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"—
[SUP]21 [/SUP] which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.
"The faith" is all that Christ has already done for us from the cross to the resurrection - it does NOT mean going to church, reading your Bibles, praying in tongues for 6 hours a day...etc.
1 Timothy 6:20-21 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"—
[SUP]21 [/SUP] which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith. Grace be with you.
You right brother it does say that, but it also says. 1 John
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Therefore brothers if we do not stay focused on him and get ensnared in the world then we no longer are part of him. Wouldn't you agree? We strive to be like him seeking him diligently. In doing so he gives us strength, we over come temptation. When I got very close to him. I first resisted temptation by my own. Then I became more spirit filled and it was easier to rebuke temptation. Then I became a self centered fool. For which I don't know if I will ever forgive myself. This isn't a buddy I let down. This is God. Anyway, my point is, the more I resisted the easier it became the more he showed of himself to me. The more I learned. I see it light joining the military, you have bootcamobthatbisvtue basics then you have to be tested to make tank. Learn to apply those basic skills. Once you do, you are given more power and repsonsability. Because both go hand in hand. As decipleship and dicipline also go hand in hand. Would you agree?
4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Therefore brothers if we do not stay focused on him and get ensnared in the world then we no longer are part of him. Wouldn't you agree? We strive to be like him seeking him diligently. In doing so he gives us strength, we over come temptation. When I got very close to him. I first resisted temptation by my own. Then I became more spirit filled and it was easier to rebuke temptation. Then I became a self centered fool. For which I don't know if I will ever forgive myself. This isn't a buddy I let down. This is God. Anyway, my point is, the more I resisted the easier it became the more he showed of himself to me. The more I learned. I see it light joining the military, you have bootcamobthatbisvtue basics then you have to be tested to make tank. Learn to apply those basic skills. Once you do, you are given more power and repsonsability. Because both go hand in hand. As decipleship and dicipline also go hand in hand. Would you agree?
Fruit is a result of growth and maturity and can BE STUNTED.....an apple tree is a tree from birth (seed sprouts) then goes through 2 to 4 years of growth before it bears it's first piece of fruit......the same is true with a believer.....very few produce fruit immediately, and many are stunted based upon their lifestyle.....1st Corinthians is clear....some...yea many, will have works of wood, hay and stubble yet will still be saved!
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Concerning Templeton who had supposed renounced his faith. This was a meeting that a minister had with him when he was older - just before he died.
I firmly believe we can be damaged in our minds from situations and yet still have our hearts intact in Christ. It is with the heart that man believes. God looks on the heart.
Sometimes we can get sick in our thinking and get offended at others and say things that are not true in our hearts..
Below is a man that knows within his heart Christ - so to use Templeton as "proof" that one goes to hell because of what they think and supposedly turn from the faith is not wise. He might have just "turned from the "God" that others were projecting to him".
Quote:
“Well, yes, Jesus is the most important thing in my life,” came his reply. “I . . . I . . . I . . . ,” he stuttered, searching for the right word, ‘I know it may sound strange, but I have to say . . . I adore him!” . . .
” . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus. Yes . . . yes. And tough! Just look at Jesus. He castigated people. He was angry. People don’t think of him that way, but they don’t read the Bible. He had a righteous anger. He cared for the oppressed and exploited. There’s no question that he had the highest moral standard, the least duplicity, the greatest compassion, of any human being in history. There have been many other wonderful people, but Jesus is Jesus….’
“Uh . . . but . . . no,’ he said slowly, ‘he’s the most . . .” He stopped, then started again. “In my view,” he declared, “he is the most important human being who has ever existed.”
That’s when Templeton uttered the words I never expected to hear from him. “And if I may put it this way,” he said as his voice began to crack, ‘I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that tears flooded his eyes. He turned his head and looked downward, raising his left hand to shield his face from me. His shoulders bobbed as he wept. . . .
Unquote:
.....this is not a man that does not believe in Christ.
Here is the link.
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2013/05/09/charles-templeton-missing-jesus/
I firmly believe we can be damaged in our minds from situations and yet still have our hearts intact in Christ. It is with the heart that man believes. God looks on the heart.
Sometimes we can get sick in our thinking and get offended at others and say things that are not true in our hearts..
Below is a man that knows within his heart Christ - so to use Templeton as "proof" that one goes to hell because of what they think and supposedly turn from the faith is not wise. He might have just "turned from the "God" that others were projecting to him".
Quote:
“Well, yes, Jesus is the most important thing in my life,” came his reply. “I . . . I . . . I . . . ,” he stuttered, searching for the right word, ‘I know it may sound strange, but I have to say . . . I adore him!” . . .
” . . . Everything good I know, everything decent I know, everything pure I know, I learned from Jesus. Yes . . . yes. And tough! Just look at Jesus. He castigated people. He was angry. People don’t think of him that way, but they don’t read the Bible. He had a righteous anger. He cared for the oppressed and exploited. There’s no question that he had the highest moral standard, the least duplicity, the greatest compassion, of any human being in history. There have been many other wonderful people, but Jesus is Jesus….’
“Uh . . . but . . . no,’ he said slowly, ‘he’s the most . . .” He stopped, then started again. “In my view,” he declared, “he is the most important human being who has ever existed.”
That’s when Templeton uttered the words I never expected to hear from him. “And if I may put it this way,” he said as his voice began to crack, ‘I . . . miss . . . him!”
With that tears flooded his eyes. He turned his head and looked downward, raising his left hand to shield his face from me. His shoulders bobbed as he wept. . . .
Unquote:
.....this is not a man that does not believe in Christ.
Here is the link.
https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/justintaylor/2013/05/09/charles-templeton-missing-jesus/
What does the words of a man who left Christ yet still loved him resolve
our position before God?
How many divorced men who have commited adultery, who do not repent
but still find they love their wives? It does not mean they did not commit
adultery and not repent, but that they are totally conflicted and denied the
love that dwelt within them.
Now some would think unrepentant sin does not matter or full blown rebellion,
but a rebel can still regret the foolish road they have trodden, but still would
do the same thing again.
our position before God?
How many divorced men who have commited adultery, who do not repent
but still find they love their wives? It does not mean they did not commit
adultery and not repent, but that they are totally conflicted and denied the
love that dwelt within them.
Now some would think unrepentant sin does not matter or full blown rebellion,
but a rebel can still regret the foolish road they have trodden, but still would
do the same thing again.
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Luke 2:37 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: ἣ οὐκ ἀφίστατο τοῦ ἱεροῦ
NAS: She never left the temple,
KJV: years, which departed not from
INT: who not departed the templeLuke 4:13 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ὁ διάβολος ἀπέστη ἀπ' αὐτοῦ
NAS: temptation, he left Him until
KJV: the temptation, he departed from
INT: the devil departed from him
Luke 8:13 V-PIM/P-3P
GRK: καιρῷ πειρασμοῦ ἀφίστανται
NAS: and in time of temptation fall away.
KJV: time of temptation fall away.
INT: time of testing fall away
Luke 13:27 V-AMA-2P
GRK: πόθεν ἐστέ ἀπόστητε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ
NAS: where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL
KJV: whence ye are; depart from me,
INT: from where you are depart from me
Acts 5:37 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἀπογραφῆς καὶ ἀπέστησεν λαὸν ὀπίσω
NAS: of the census and drew away [some] people
KJV: and drew away much
INT: census and drew away people after
Acts 5:38 V-AMA-2P
GRK: λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπόστητε ἀπὸ τῶν
NAS: I say to you, stay away from these
KJV: I say unto you, Refrain from these
INT: I say to you Withdraw from the
Acts 12:10 V-AIA-3S
GRK: καὶ εὐθέως ἀπέστη ὁ ἄγγελος
NAS: the angel departed from him.
KJV: forthwith the angel departed from him.
INT: and immediately departed the angel
Acts 15:38 V-APA-AMS
GRK: ἠξίου τὸν ἀποστάντα ἀπ' αὐτῶν
NAS: that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia
KJV: with them, who departed from them
INT: thought it well the [one] having withdrawn from them
Acts 19:9 V-APA-NMS
GRK: τοῦ πλήθους ἀποστὰς ἀπ' αὐτῶν
NAS: the people, he withdrew from them and took away
KJV: the multitude, he departed from
INT: the multitude having departed from them
Acts 22:29 V-AIA-3P
GRK: εὐθέως οὖν ἀπέστησαν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ
NAS: him immediately let go of him; and the commander
KJV: straightway they departed from
INT: Immediately therefore departed from him
2 Corinthians 12:8 V-ASA-3S
GRK: παρεκάλεσα ἵνα ἀποστῇ ἀπ' ἐμοῦ
NAS: three times that it might leave me.
KJV: thrice, that it might depart from me.
INT: I begged that it might depart from me
1 Timothy 4:1 V-FIM-3P
GRK: ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς
NAS: some will fall away from the faith,
KJV: some shall depart from the faith,
INT: latter times will depart from some the
2 Timothy 2:19 V-AMA-3S
GRK: αὐτοῦ καί Ἀποστήτω ἀπὸ ἀδικίας
NAS: of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.
KJV: of Christ depart from
INT: his and Let depart from unrighteousness
Hebrews 3:12 V-ANA
GRK: ἐν τῷ ἀποστῆναι ἀπὸ θεοῦ
NAS: heart that falls away from the living
KJV: in departing from
INT: in departing from God
14 Occurrences
That has to mean to fall away completely..... there's no other use of it otherwise. Nothing.
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[TD]Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aphistémi
Phonetic Spelling: (af-is'-tay-mee)
Short Definition: I lead away, seduce, depart, abstain from
Definition: I make to stand away, draw away, repel, take up a position away from, withdraw from, leave, abstain from.NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
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[TD]Strong's Concordance
aphistémi: to lead away, to depart from
Original Word: ἀφίστημιPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: aphistémi
Phonetic Spelling: (af-is'-tay-mee)
Short Definition: I lead away, seduce, depart, abstain from
Definition: I make to stand away, draw away, repel, take up a position away from, withdraw from, leave, abstain from.NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from apo and histémi
Definition
to lead away, to depart from
NASB Translation
abstain (1), depart (1), departed (1), deserted (1), drew away (1), fall away (2), falls away (1), leave (1), left (2), let go (1), stay away (1), withdrew (1).
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Luke 2:37 V-IIM/P-3S
GRK: ἣ οὐκ ἀφίστατο τοῦ ἱεροῦ
NAS: She never left the temple,
KJV: years, which departed not from
INT: who not departed the templeLuke 4:13 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ὁ διάβολος ἀπέστη ἀπ' αὐτοῦ
NAS: temptation, he left Him until
KJV: the temptation, he departed from
INT: the devil departed from him
Luke 8:13 V-PIM/P-3P
GRK: καιρῷ πειρασμοῦ ἀφίστανται
NAS: and in time of temptation fall away.
KJV: time of temptation fall away.
INT: time of testing fall away
Luke 13:27 V-AMA-2P
GRK: πόθεν ἐστέ ἀπόστητε ἀπ' ἐμοῦ
NAS: where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL
KJV: whence ye are; depart from me,
INT: from where you are depart from me
Acts 5:37 V-AIA-3S
GRK: ἀπογραφῆς καὶ ἀπέστησεν λαὸν ὀπίσω
NAS: of the census and drew away [some] people
KJV: and drew away much
INT: census and drew away people after
Acts 5:38 V-AMA-2P
GRK: λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπόστητε ἀπὸ τῶν
NAS: I say to you, stay away from these
KJV: I say unto you, Refrain from these
INT: I say to you Withdraw from the
Acts 12:10 V-AIA-3S
GRK: καὶ εὐθέως ἀπέστη ὁ ἄγγελος
NAS: the angel departed from him.
KJV: forthwith the angel departed from him.
INT: and immediately departed the angel
Acts 15:38 V-APA-AMS
GRK: ἠξίου τὸν ἀποστάντα ἀπ' αὐτῶν
NAS: that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia
KJV: with them, who departed from them
INT: thought it well the [one] having withdrawn from them
Acts 19:9 V-APA-NMS
GRK: τοῦ πλήθους ἀποστὰς ἀπ' αὐτῶν
NAS: the people, he withdrew from them and took away
KJV: the multitude, he departed from
INT: the multitude having departed from them
Acts 22:29 V-AIA-3P
GRK: εὐθέως οὖν ἀπέστησαν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ
NAS: him immediately let go of him; and the commander
KJV: straightway they departed from
INT: Immediately therefore departed from him
2 Corinthians 12:8 V-ASA-3S
GRK: παρεκάλεσα ἵνα ἀποστῇ ἀπ' ἐμοῦ
NAS: three times that it might leave me.
KJV: thrice, that it might depart from me.
INT: I begged that it might depart from me
1 Timothy 4:1 V-FIM-3P
GRK: ὑστέροις καιροῖς ἀποστήσονταί τινες τῆς
NAS: some will fall away from the faith,
KJV: some shall depart from the faith,
INT: latter times will depart from some the
2 Timothy 2:19 V-AMA-3S
GRK: αὐτοῦ καί Ἀποστήτω ἀπὸ ἀδικίας
NAS: of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.
KJV: of Christ depart from
INT: his and Let depart from unrighteousness
Hebrews 3:12 V-ANA
GRK: ἐν τῷ ἀποστῆναι ἀπὸ θεοῦ
NAS: heart that falls away from the living
KJV: in departing from
INT: in departing from God
14 Occurrences
That has to mean to fall away completely..... there's no other use of it otherwise. Nothing.
Let me put it this way if the person dies but only claimed to be Christian but never attempted to follow Christ's teachings other than the moral law within us all. How does that make him a follower? A clock has many gears that work together to serve one function, to tell the time. If the clock maker allowed a random gear that looks nice but does not move to produce time. It sits there and spins by itself doing no good. It may not do harm but what good is it? It might as well be removed since it doesn't do what the creator made it to do.
This isn't hard to understand a believer is saved through the belief of Jesus sacrifice and his resurrection for our sins. If a believer no longer puts the faith into this belief how is he still saved? If the once saved believer was to die with a for what ever reason hate and loss of faith toward God. And still be saved then we might as well tell people it's okay to be lukewarm God won't mind. I agree God knows the heart but if the heart is filled with rebellion and hatred once death arrives then the once saved has lost his time given to live for God. Many good people will also not see heaven. It takes a ACTIVE RELATIONSHIP with God. Yes a believer will still be saved if even it takes years for him to repent and live for God. But if he never reprints and never produces fruit I believe he will say You are Lord and Jesus will ask who are you?
This isn't hard to understand a believer is saved through the belief of Jesus sacrifice and his resurrection for our sins. If a believer no longer puts the faith into this belief how is he still saved? If the once saved believer was to die with a for what ever reason hate and loss of faith toward God. And still be saved then we might as well tell people it's okay to be lukewarm God won't mind. I agree God knows the heart but if the heart is filled with rebellion and hatred once death arrives then the once saved has lost his time given to live for God. Many good people will also not see heaven. It takes a ACTIVE RELATIONSHIP with God. Yes a believer will still be saved if even it takes years for him to repent and live for God. But if he never reprints and never produces fruit I believe he will say You are Lord and Jesus will ask who are you?
S
but he never believed again the Jesus was God and in this article because Jesus the greatest human being that ever existed two times which is not what a person confesses when they confess that Jesus Christ is our Lord and savior. Quite obviously even in his later years before he died he still didn't believe in the Jesus of the Bible. Templeton was a modern and yet tangible example of Hebrews 6:4-6. He could not and would not repent again before he died.
<strong>Pathetic Preacher Dies in Unbelief!</strong>
<strong>Pathetic Preacher Dies in Unbelief!</strong>