Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

[Roughsoul1991]

Paul never said we are saved by faith plus works, he went out of his way to prove faith plus works is an oxymoron.

Paul said those saved, Will obey, because they trust God.. and because they were made new creatures.. created for good works.. It is their nature. Meaning it is AGAINST that new nature to sin, and sit down and do nothing..

If the heart in the right place we will see a difference

 

[garee]

Amen agree again. I was speaking to not the real saved but the misguided saved that does not produce good works by their faith.

We are not saved by the good works of after the imaginations of our own hearts .We are saved by His good works of His faith.No imagination ,real faith,

One faith,one Lord, one work , lest any man boast in self pride. I did it my way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So let me get this straight. How is good fruit produced?

By the vine working through the branch.

The vine is Christ, the branch is us,, Christ produces the work, we just ask God to attach us to the vine.

The vine has no power to produce fruit, not could it produce fruit.

 

[Ariel82]

Slander???? The devil likes to slander.....is that who leads you?

I was hoping you wouldn't quote that.

No he just chooses the flesh, instead of Christ's way.

You choose the same. You could just keep talking to Roughsoul and forgive Petersjens for his hatred and unjust accusations. Instead your pride causes you to shoot one back at him.

Now we can watch the mudslinging.

When will either of you repent and do things God's way?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, SHOW not establish. Big difference.

Nobody is questioning the fact that the demons "believe" (mental assent) that "there is one God" but where in this passage does it say that demons believe or trust in Jesus Christ for salvation? The faith of demons is only "mental assent." Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. The word "believe" can describe "mere mental assent," as in James 2:19 or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. Saving belief is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief trusts exclusively in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Faith without works is an empty profession of faith, not genuine faith which is evidenced by works. Notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac on the altar resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

Faith made perfect by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on his works. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith in Genesis 15:6 long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.

They are not both united as the root of salvation. Faith is the root and good works are the fruit and we are saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10).

again, well said.. Hope it starts to make sense to many.

 

[PeterJens]

Slander???? The devil likes to slander.....is that who leads you?

You are a mocker in all your attitudes. You are not interested in actual engagement
merely to mock and come with rejection of people and their words in general.

You start with disowning their whole faith and standing.
So I know you from old, and how little respect you show.

I bow before my King and rely on Him and His word to steer me.
If you have something of value to share from the Lord, I will listen,
but to disrespect brother and sisters in Christ is to declare your allegiance.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was hoping you wouldn't quote that.

No he just chooses the flesh, instead of Christ's way.

You choose the same.

Now we can watch the mudslinging.

Pay attention....I did not SAY he was.....all I did was make a biblical point and ASK a question.........he does not even make my radar anymore.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Stoke the fire, your about to be tested...let's see how long folks can keep from calling one another names and refrain from engaging in unChrist like behavior...

Ignore button hopefull works wonders today.. Prayer..lol

 

[Ariel82]

By the vine working through the branch.

The vine is Christ, the branch is us,, Christ produces the work, we just ask God to attach us to the vine.

The vine has no power to produce fruit, not could it produce fruit.

Amen. And amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are a mocker in all your attitudes. You are not interested in actual engagement
merely to mock and come with rejection of people and their words in general.

You start with disowning their whole faith and standing.
So I know you from old, and how little respect you show.

I bow before my King and rely on Him and His word to steer me.
If you have something of value to share from the Lord, I will listen,
but to disrespect brother and sisters in Christ is to declare your allegiance.

Did you say something Peter? the above post about EG and I is exactly what you accuse of bro....so....maybe your should pray and re-evaluate your responses....I was not even engaging you!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

so then where did your works come in to the picture?

Because a misguided Christian could believe by some teaching that faith is good enough to be saved and no heart change, no repentance, just a confession because they don't like the sound of hell but people say all you got to do is believe and your good. But that would be true if it was genuine. But for misguided Christian they think they are being saved and do nothing to grow in Christ. So in your words they never was saved but they think they are. This is a stupid argument over scripture that's not hard to understand. Faith without works is dead. Why because it would indicate a false salvation or false/misguided believer

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Y'all keep trying to imply I am speaking of human works when with faith, we are urged to grow with God, this growth and obeying of God is packaged with faith. This is why James says he will show you my faith by my works. His faith will show its genuineness because his love for God shines like a light on a hill

That is sanctification, Not justification.

Too be justified is to be saved, To be sanctified is to grow in christ, Yet Christ powers both events.

For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. heb 10: 14

It is God who justifies me, I also do not sanctify mysef, I am being sanctified by the power of God. through testing, persecution, training, chastening, and all the things the scripture says God does or puts in our life to train us to maturity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nah they just want to make sure your root/foundation is in Christ alone and that you aren't working to be saved.

That you are saved so you work, they are okay with.

Thank you, I agree with this, yes, this is what we are trying to do.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

By the vine working through the branch.

The vine is Christ, the branch is us,, Christ produces the work, we just ask God to attach us to the vine.

The vine has no power to produce fruit, not could it produce fruit.

Who does the work?

 

[Ariel82]

Pay attention....I did not SAY he was.....all I did was make a biblical point and ASK a question.........he does not even make my radar anymore.......

Lol right...that explains the heated response. Do yourself a favor and put him on ignore.

You don't need to defend yourself. God knows truth from lies and He helps his children discern the differences too.

 

[Ariel82]

Who does the work?

We offer our bodies as living sacrifices and they are Temples of God because the Holy Spirit dwells in our hearts,

 

[garee]

If the heart in the right place we will see a difference

All Christians have the treasure of His authority in us but is never to be assumed it could be of us. That would be blasphemy to accredit His work to our selves. Those who do have received their reward.

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.2Co 4:7-11

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You say you are saved then works happen.

And I say we are saved by Grace through our faith and true faith produces good works.

Sounds the same to me but whatever. They are connected like it or not

yes it does. and I pray we can use this to see where each other is coming from.

However, You also say we are saved by works,, Where I say we are saved by faith, before we do one good work.. As a result of that genuine faith, I (as the new creature in Christ created for good works because I was saved by grace through faith (eph 2: 8-10) I work,

If i claim I had faith, yet have zero works (james 2) then my faith was dead, and I was not saved by grace,, Because I had no faith.

I am not lost because I did not do work, I am lost because I had no faith (see also john 3. he who does not believe (have faith) is condemned already because he has not believed.)

 

[Ariel82]

Because a misguided Christian could believe by some teaching that faith is good enough to be saved and no heart change, no repentance, just a confession because they don't like the sound of hell but people say all you got to do is believe and your good. But that would be true if it was genuine. But for misguided Christian they think they are being saved and do nothing to grow in Christ. So in your words they never was saved but they think they are. This is a stupid argument over scripture that's not hard to understand. Faith without works is dead. Why because it would indicate a false salvation or false/misguided believer

I think it would be better to teach the difference between false faith and true faith.

False faith: can get into heaven without any inward change or turning towards God's ways and not our own.

False faith: doing good works will get God to love you more

True faith: Jesus died on the cross for the remission of our sins, that we might be born again children of God.

 

[PeterJens]

I was hoping you wouldn't quote that.

No he just chooses the flesh, instead of Christ's way.

You choose the same. You could just keep talking to Roughsoul and forgive Petersjens for his hatred and unjust accusations. Instead your pride causes you to shoot one back at him.

Now we can watch the mudslinging.

When will either of you repent and do things God's way?

OSAS - saved non-OSAS - not saved, unbeliever.

Truth, salvation comes through Christ alone, and walking after Him.
They deny the walk and discipleship.

There is no area of compromise, but there is an area for exploration of
belief systems. More than this is from the enemy.