Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
If you (general you) don't follow God, then that's sin. That doesn't mean it's not true salvation. You seem to be thinking that following God is what saves us.. God's grace saves us, and our faith saves us. God says "believe on me and you will be saved". He did NOT say "do good works or lose your salvation."


I never said this but if you don't follow God that's not true salvation
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
[h=1]Matthew 18:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]16 But if he won’t listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the testimony[a] of two or three witnesses every fact may be established.

I have studied, researched, prayed, and got grandmothers advice and my preacher. And my grandmother isn't Methodist but said the same thing. I can see the fruit of their faith so I know it's legitimate. They both have spent most their life with God. One as a missionary to south Korea and the other through preaching and college educations.
[/FONT]
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
If you (general you) don't follow God, then that's sin. That doesn't mean it's not true salvation. You seem to be thinking that following God is what saves us.. God's grace saves us, and our faith saves us. God says "believe on me and you will be saved". He did NOT say "do good works or lose your salvation."
Yes and belief would indicate they truly will want to follow God
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
Many truly believe everyday but many also fall away.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
All who are saved, want to truly follow God. :) But, certain events happen and their belief may fade for awhile. Then when they "see the light" at the end of their hardship, their belief builds back up again.. I can say with absolute certainty, that everyone here has stopped believing (temporarily) at one time or another in their life. And by that, I mean maybe certain bad things caused them to stop believing for awhile, and then they realized their situation wasn't so bad after all, so they started being able to see God in the mix and started believing again.

Simply put, it's called having doubts. Even Thomas had doubts. :)


Yes and belief would indicate they truly will want to follow God
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
True. But do they fall away because they think they have lost salvation? Or because they've sinned and doubt God will forgive them? Or maybe even because someone told them "man there ain't no God, that's just a myth"and they actually just blindly believed it? There are umpteen gazillion reasons for someone to fall away from God..


Many truly believe everyday but many also fall away.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
https://youtu.be/jNXbHYTAEyo A short 6 minute video----Once Saved Always Saved----could be dangerous----I always say--if you practice sin as a lifestyle (1 John 3:9)----are you truly saved...?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,464
13,409
113
58
Now this affects saved but fallen away believers who return to unrightiousness, unbelievers, and as a warning to faithful servants of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9 reads - Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. *Nothing there about faithful servants of God returning to unrighteousness, but Paul does mention those who WERE unrighteous, but now they are washed, sanctified and justified.

Where does the Bible say "lost salvation" or "un-born again?"
Still no Bible verse that specifically spells this out.

but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth but are obeying unrighteousness;
This is descriptive of unbehlievers.

It's according to if you personally believe that part of scripture and many others are only talking to non believers. Then you would be right. But your wrong even believers have the free choice to deny God. I have seen it and if anyone is honest we all seen hardcore Christians just fall off the path. They won't lose salvation on earth because it's a gift on earth. But if they didn't return to God at death the Bible teaches wrath.
These epistles are written to believers, yet it's not hard to find unbelievers mixed in with the group who may even look like the real deal. Just because a letter is written to believers does not mean that everyone in the group who professes to be a genuine believer truly is. That's where the warning comes in. 1 John is addressed to believers, yet in 1 John 2:19, we see there are those who go out from us but are not of us. If a Pastor of a church (particularly a very large church) greeted the congregation on Sunday morning with, "good morning brothers and sisters in Christ," does that mean that EVERYONE in the congregation that day MUST be a genuine believer?

I guess the question is do you believe me a believer in Christ one day out of free will if I gave into rebellion and seek personal selfish earthly things the rest of my life, I would see heaven?
I don't believe that a genuine believer would do that the rest of their life. Now genuine believers can mess up/stumble, yet they will receive chastening from the Lord.

Hebrews 12:
5 - And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
I thank you for everyone's patience, time and effort. I went into this confused, and people got confused with me lol. I was not trying to defend anything but to understand and test others liability to scripture. It's been rough getting here but I finally found a essay that put in words what I was confused on since the beginning. I agree with what most have said. I am frustrated and not afraid to be wrong for the truth of Christ. That's all I care about is the truth. But what scares me is all the theologies and humans commentaries on the same scripture. What theology and commentary is the truth? What is of man and of God.

I agree with what this essay says it put in words what I was trying to explain. But the very last 3 sentences confuses me. Not the scripture but the thought.

https://m.facebook.com/ken.kovach1/posts/905364009517653

Here is the top part if the paragraph that says those who continue in the faith are genuinely saved. That to me sounds like a free will thing saying those who continue.

But the last paragraph says different.

But can't a believer, of his own free will, choose to wander out of Jesus protective hand? No. A good shepherd does not allow his sheep to go astray.

So if the trinity doesn't allow this, then is this what the whole slave for God means. Not saying it's bad but just saying that seems to take free will away. The whole genuinely saved compared to false security saved is very confusing. Especially when the author mentions But genuine faith requires genuine repentance.

I say confusing because me and my brother both grew up in church and was excepted Christ. My little brother was way mire into church than me for a long time. I use to wish I could be that way. But as of now he told me a few months ago he didn't want to be part of a God like that. Because my brother was defending the homosexual behaviour probably because one of his friend s is gay.

But his fruit doesn't show a genuine faith. So does that mean it was never true? And he would truly have to repent to have the Holy spirit. And somehow mine was, to get to this point in my faith? But according to this I am against my will to walk away from God. Not saying I want to but we freely choose to make good or bad decisions everyday. We can still be tempted by the tempter. Sin has consequences on earth but not against or eternity I suppose.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You brother is beginning to question the churches teachings, because he disagrees with its stance on homosexuals.

The Book of discipline, social principles states that homosexuality is against God's plan but we should treat all homosexuals with love and compassion.

Will your brother fall away from the church?

Maybe.

Will he fall away from God?

Don't know.

Was his faith in the church and that they were teaching him right? (stony ground, shallow faith, no true roots)

or true study and a deep prayer life and relationship with God?

If it's the second the Holy Spirit will guide and keep him. though outwardly he may show signs of an inward struggle and some might wrongly judge him as umsaved, God will remove the rocks and till the heart until the SEED of the gospel has stronger roots and he bears good fruit.

Prayer is key.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
When you became saved, you gave up the concept of "free will" to seek God's will. That is what true repentance means: when you realise you ARE a sinner and your way will never save you so you need a Savior.

That is when YOU CHOOSE to give God your free will and lean upon His Holy Spirit to lead and guide you.
 

skippypb

Junior Member
Apr 9, 2016
10
1
3
i havent read too many of the responses on this thread so forgive me if anything i say was brought up before . ive studied this subject thoroughly years ago and came to a lot of conclusions about it that go against both what people are taught and believe about the subject in todays churches. i didnt like the conclusions i had to come to but scripture demands them. to be honest, ive forgotten alot about this subject since i studied it because of health issues but without getting too involved with this discussion , i will say a few things that you need to think about.

when studying any biblical subject , first and foremost , ask yourself what you WANT the truth to be . almost always, the truth will be the opposite of what you WANT it to be. at least that has been my experience . we cant allow our own WANTS (lusts) to dictate what the truth is especially when it comes to scripture. if we do that , we are letting our lusts dictate what god's word says which can lead to a myriad of problems and we are in danger of being deceived by teachers who tell us what we want to hear instead of what we need to hear. 2timothy1-4

i hope you all use exegesis instead of eisegesis when you try to interpret the bible . as a general guide , exegesis is interpreting scripture by letting scripture say what it says and using scripture to interpret scripture . this doesnt allow your personal beliefs or presuppositions influence your interpretations. eisegesis is when you put your own bias and presuppositions into your interpretations. this is letting your WANTS/LUSTS influence your interpretations . which seems more likely the interpretive process that will lead you to the truth ?

ask yourself if you are asking the right questions . you may be asking the wrong questions which will inevitably lead you no where but more confusion on the matter and not get you to the truth.

after asking what you WANT the truth to be , ask what salvation means , when it happens , how we come to be saved , and what the sign or seal is of our salvation . those are starting questions . these questions alone will keep you busy for quite awhile. i speak from experience , lol.

then ask , are we literally saved when we come to the faith or only figuratively saved ? are we literally saved while on our walk with the lord or are we just figuratively saved ? are we literally saved on judgement day or are we figuratively saved ?

as we all should know there are no contradictions in the bible , otherwise god's word would be fallible . with that being said , how do you overcome the apparent contradiction when the word saved is used ? ie. has saved (past tense) 1timpthy1:9 titus3:5. we are saved (present tense) 2corinthians2:15 1corinthians1:1:18 we will/shall be saved (future tense) romans5:9-10 1corinthians3:15 . has been saved(meaning we have been saved already) we are saved (meaning we are presently saved) and we will/shall be saved(meaning we havent been saved yet) would all contradict each other. so when are we saved? if the word saved meant the same thing in all the above examples , there would be a contradiction .

for this apparent contradiction , if the word saved was always meant to be literal , then the contradiction stands . if its not always meant to be literal , but figurative in some instances when its used , we can answer the contradiction and clear it up.

another thing to consider is when the teaching of how we get "saved" to begin with started .(asking the lord into your heart and the sinners prayer etc). you will find it is only about 500 yrs old and has no examples whatsoever in scripture of anyone coming to the faith in that way . it doesnt explain the salvation of the thief on the cross at all . this does play a role in finding the truth on this subject.

also , ask when the once saved always saved theology started . it too is only about 500 yrs old .

those two facts alone should have you second guessing whether osas is biblical truth or not.

i havent gone too far into this subject here as im not sure i will be able to come back to this thread too often but i will try if need be .

i hope i havent confused you all more than you were already . i hope i have given you some things to think about and to ponder on the subject . i hope and pray that you all come to the knowledge of the truth on this and all biblical subjects . i will try to respond when i can . god bless !
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
I have an example in life that helps me.

A person is dying of dementia. They are in a care home, loosing all focus, but happy.
A daughter feels blessed, and is sure it is the mother praying for her. This is not true.
A son visits the mother, and her silence is deemed as depression, and being withdrawn, and
some nice experiences will restore them back to health.

Both children are deluded, their mother is gone, some still remains, but not the person they
really knew. But they cannot face the truth or reality so create projections that give them
a sense of security, because the relationship is not real, just the acknowledgement of need.

So many believers live their faith this way. It meets an emotional need in their life, but they
are not ever going to take it seriously, and face death or the difficult issues in their heart and
life. So they freeze and die. What brought them to this point has been resolved, but the next
step is too hard, risking it all again, to walk deeper with Christ.

Carrying the cross is often seen a self denial, rather than sacrificing ones faith for the truth.
How much do you trust Christ? What you find hard, are you prepared to risk the idea you
might be wrong and might be deceived, or that is a test you cannot face?

Will you carry the cross and risk you life for the truth, who is Christ our Lord?
This is our calling, walk on into the Kingdom.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
i havent read too many of the responses on this thread so forgive me if anything i say was brought up before . ive studied this subject thoroughly years ago and came to a lot of conclusions about it that go against both what people are taught and believe about the subject in todays churches. i didnt like the conclusions i had to come to but scripture demands them. to be honest, ive forgotten alot about this subject since i studied it because of health issues but without getting too involved with this discussion , i will say a few things that you need to think about.

when studying any biblical subject , first and foremost , ask yourself what you WANT the truth to be . almost always, the truth will be the opposite of what you WANT it to be. at least that has been my experience . we cant allow our own WANTS (lusts) to dictate what the truth is especially when it comes to scripture. if we do that , we are letting our lusts dictate what god's word says which can lead to a myriad of problems and we are in danger of being deceived by teachers who tell us what we want to hear instead of what we need to hear. 2timothy1-4

i hope you all use exegesis instead of eisegesis when you try to interpret the bible . as a general guide , exegesis is interpreting scripture by letting scripture say what it says and using scripture to interpret scripture . this doesnt allow your personal beliefs or presuppositions influence your interpretations. eisegesis is when you put your own bias and presuppositions into your interpretations. this is letting your WANTS/LUSTS influence your interpretations . which seems more likely the interpretive process that will lead you to the truth ?

ask yourself if you are asking the right questions . you may be asking the wrong questions which will inevitably lead you no where but more confusion on the matter and not get you to the truth.

after asking what you WANT the truth to be , ask what salvation means , when it happens , how we come to be saved , and what the sign or seal is of our salvation . those are starting questions . these questions alone will keep you busy for quite awhile. i speak from experience , lol.

then ask , are we literally saved when we come to the faith or only figuratively saved ? are we literally saved while on our walk with the lord or are we just figuratively saved ? are we literally saved on judgement day or are we figuratively saved ?

as we all should know there are no contradictions in the bible , otherwise god's word would be fallible . with that being said , how do you overcome the apparent contradiction when the word saved is used ? ie. has saved (past tense) 1timpthy1:9 titus3:5. we are saved (present tense) 2corinthians2:15 1corinthians1:1:18 we will/shall be saved (future tense) romans5:9-10 1corinthians3:15 . has been saved(meaning we have been saved already) we are saved (meaning we are presently saved) and we will/shall be saved(meaning we havent been saved yet) would all contradict each other. so when are we saved? if the word saved meant the same thing in all the above examples , there would be a contradiction .

for this apparent contradiction , if the word saved was always meant to be literal , then the contradiction stands . if its not always meant to be literal , but figurative in some instances when its used , we can answer the contradiction and clear it up.

another thing to consider is when the teaching of how we get "saved" to begin with started .(asking the lord into your heart and the sinners prayer etc). you will find it is only about 500 yrs old and has no examples whatsoever in scripture of anyone coming to the faith in that way . it doesnt explain the salvation of the thief on the cross at all . this does play a role in finding the truth on this subject.

also , ask when the once saved always saved theology started . it too is only about 500 yrs old .

those two facts alone should have you second guessing whether osas is biblical truth or not.

i havent gone too far into this subject here as im not sure i will be able to come back to this thread too often but i will try if need be .

i hope i havent confused you all more than you were already . i hope i have given you some things to think about and to ponder on the subject . i hope and pray that you all come to the knowledge of the truth on this and all biblical subjects . i will try to respond when i can . god bless !
Lol i have set and re-read some of this stuff over and over and over to get understanding. It's been rough but obviously this subject is very controversial for a reason. But I am starting to get the answers I need.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
I have an example in life that helps me.

A person is dying of dementia. They are in a care home, loosing all focus, but happy.
A daughter feels blessed, and is sure it is the mother praying for her. This is not true.
A son visits the mother, and her silence is deemed as depression, and being withdrawn, and
some nice experiences will restore them back to health.

Both children are deluded, their mother is gone, some still remains, but not the person they
really knew. But they cannot face the truth or reality so create projections that give them
a sense of security, because the relationship is not real, just the acknowledgement of need.

So many believers live their faith this way. It meets an emotional need in their life, but they
are not ever going to take it seriously, and face death or the difficult issues in their heart and
life. So they freeze and die. What brought them to this point has been resolved, but the next
step is too hard, risking it all again, to walk deeper with Christ.

Carrying the cross is often seen a self denial, rather than sacrificing ones faith for the truth.
How much do you trust Christ? What you find hard, are you prepared to risk the idea you
might be wrong and might be deceived, or that is a test you cannot face?

Will you carry the cross and risk you life for the truth, who is Christ our Lord?
This is our calling, walk on into the Kingdom.
For the sake of truth if I am wrong great, if I am right that's really great, but in the end truth is all that matters. Pride is a hard thing to defeat when people hate to be wrong.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
Roughsoul, I admire your search for truth. There is so much contrary opinion, even among believers. Here we are 25 pages in and still nothing conclusive for you. I became a Christian at age 22 and sought truth exhaustively ever since. Hours a day I spent learning as much as I can to answer the nagging questions about who we are and who God is and the relationship between us. I'm fairly certain that you can't ask a question that I haven't already asked and received answers for. The problem is that truth cannot be reduced to a handful of Bible verses. There is a Truth that is the Rosetta Stone of Christianity that explains everything, and I mean everything, past, present and future. I don't challenge the authority of Scripture but I will say that it is incomplete, not in substance (I don't want to be accused of adding or taking away), but for explanation. We take a couple verses out of context and build a theology from it. You have to read and incorporate the whole thing. That's why there is confusion. As far as once saved always saved this is what needs to be considered; Christ's sacrifice is a gift. There is two parts to a gift giving, the giving and receiving. He gave the gift to the whole world! Only some accept the gift. You can't earn a gift. This is where the confusion is. You can't do anything to make yourself more or less deserving of the gift. What you do with the gift will either make you child of God or not. The gift is free but it has strings attached. It might be like a parent giving a teenager a brand new car. Then the parent says, "This is your car but know that if I ask you to pick your siblings up or go to the store, I expect that you will, without arguing." The child didn't earn the car, but it comes with expectations.

Some people are willing to accept the gift of salvation but unwilling to fulfill their end of the bargain. You cannot be a child of God and live like a devil. It is the act of living in the spirit that transforms us. We actually become a new creation. We become more aware to the fact that the body is just a shell and that our essence that becomes acceptable is no longer subject to the demands of the shell. The shell has programming created by God. The programming is to work, adapt, survive and procreate. The programming got hacked! The Spirit is like a system restore and causes us to regain control over the shell. This allows us to serve Him. If we make Him our Master than we become slaves to righteousness. If we continue to serve our shell and obey the desires of the flesh, then it becomes our master and is incapable to do anything but die. Our spirits are designed to inhabit a shell. Since the Creator is capable to create us a new body, this will be our reward at the resurrection. All who serve the flesh will die and their spirits will continue to be absent from a shell and therefore be in eternal unrest.

As far as the elect is concerned, He predestined from the beginning that there would be a group of people that would follow Him. He doesn't pick and choose who is worthy to be selected.

Romans 8:29-30Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

I believe that this refers to the entire Church, meaning that He established from the beginning that man would fall, He would be the One to call His people (He sought everybody, called), Christ would come for redemption (justified) and an elect would be glorified in the New Age (glorified).

If you are His and He is your Master than salvation cannot be lost. All you have to do is take a look at your life to determine who your Master is. Who are you serving? Is your time spent seeking His will and loving others? Is your money spent on comfort and pleasure or furthering His kingdom? Do you spend more time on your hair, than on prayer in the morning? How much time do you spend in prayer for other people? When you sin, do you make a confession or an excuse? Do you talk to God like He is your Father or a stranger? From the answers to these questions you should be able to determine whether He is your Master and Father.
 
B

bravethea

Guest
actually is Jesus or satan. There is no middle ground.

The Way of Salvation is Narrow means Just that. Its either you say Thank you for Gods Blood or not.

Sincerity is not optional. God Himself compares it to a Marriage. But its God the Perfect Bridegroom wooing His imperfect Bride into submission :) Blessed Assurance Jesus is mine :)

Its like you wouldn't attempt to be One with God only to plan to use Him but instead to learn to Love Him Yes?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,847
4,503
113
Roughsoul, I admire your search for truth. There is so much contrary opinion, even among believers. Here we are 25 pages in and still nothing conclusive for you. I became a Christian at age 22 and sought truth exhaustively ever since. Hours a day I spent learning as much as I can to answer the nagging questions about who we are and who God is and the relationship between us. I'm fairly certain that you can't ask a question that I haven't already asked and received answers for. The problem is that truth cannot be reduced to a handful of Bible verses. There is a Truth that is the Rosetta Stone of Christianity that explains everything, and I mean everything, past, present and future. I don't challenge the authority of Scripture but I will say that it is incomplete, not in substance (I don't want to be accused of adding or taking away), but for explanation. We take a couple verses out of context and build a theology from it. You have to read and incorporate the whole thing. That's why there is confusion. As far as once saved always saved this is what needs to be considered; Christ's sacrifice is a gift. There is two parts to a gift giving, the giving and receiving. He gave the gift to the whole world! Only some accept the gift. You can't earn a gift. This is where the confusion is. You can't do anything to make yourself more or less deserving of the gift. What you do with the gift will either make you child of God or not. The gift is free but it has strings attached. It might be like a parent giving a teenager a brand new car. Then the parent says, "This is your car but know that if I ask you to pick your siblings up or go to the store, I expect that you will, without arguing." The child didn't earn the car, but it comes with expectations.

Some people are willing to accept the gift of salvation but unwilling to fulfill their end of the bargain. You cannot be a child of God and live like a devil. It is the act of living in the spirit that transforms us. We actually become a new creation. We become more aware to the fact that the body is just a shell and that our essence that becomes acceptable is no longer subject to the demands of the shell. The shell has programming created by God. The programming is to work, adapt, survive and procreate. The programming got hacked! The Spirit is like a system restore and causes us to regain control over the shell. This allows us to serve Him. If we make Him our Master than we become slaves to righteousness. If we continue to serve our shell and obey the desires of the flesh, then it becomes our master and is incapable to do anything but die. Our spirits are designed to inhabit a shell. Since the Creator is capable to create us a new body, this will be our reward at the resurrection. All who serve the flesh will die and their spirits will continue to be absent from a shell and therefore be in eternal unrest.

As far as the elect is concerned, He predestined from the beginning that there would be a group of people that would follow Him. He doesn't pick and choose who is worthy to be selected.

Romans 8:29-30Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

I believe that this refers to the entire Church, meaning that He established from the beginning that man would fall, He would be the One to call His people (He sought everybody, called), Christ would come for redemption (justified) and an elect would be glorified in the New Age (glorified).

If you are His and He is your Master than salvation cannot be lost. All you have to do is take a look at your life to determine who your Master is. Who are you serving? Is your time spent seeking His will and loving others? Is your money spent on comfort and pleasure or furthering His kingdom? Do you spend more time on your hair, than on prayer in the morning? How much time do you spend in prayer for other people? When you sin, do you make a confession or an excuse? Do you talk to God like He is your Father or a stranger? From the answers to these questions you should be able to determine whether He is your Master and Father.
Awesome response