Women Pastors? Help me.

[wolfwint]

Genesis 3:16 and your desire shall be to your husband and he shall rule over you. Note: now based on what some teach which is that Adam was the first man and only man on earth and Eve was the only woman, this applies to Adam and Eve because it was taught that these were the only two on earth, however Eve falls first and she fell first, Adam had authority over her because Adam had not fallen yet, however Adam did fall at some point, therefore both were equal in the fall, Adam lost his authority over Eve because he had fallen as well.

That man are rules over woman is the consequences for Eva's sin, as well to have pain by giving birth.
Not more and not less. God gave this punishment, not Paul. Adams role in this has no meaning. He got his own consequences and also we man.

 

[StanJ]

Genesis 3:16 and your desire shall be to your husband and he shall rule over you. Note: now based on what some teach which is that Adam was the first man and only man on earth and Eve was the only woman, this applies to Adam and Eve because it was taught that these were the only two on earth, however Eve falls first and she fell first, Adam had authority over her because Adam had not fallen yet, however Adam did fall at some point, therefore both were equal in the fall, Adam lost his authority over Eve because he had fallen as well.

Adam fell at the same time he let his wife eat from the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Paul says that she was deceived first and that is correct, she was deceived by the serpent's lies but Adam still allowed his wife to eat when he knew God had commanded him that they should not. The fact is that Adam sinned first by allowing his wife to interact with the serpent instead of him standing up for what God had instructed him that they should do. She took a leadership role that was assigned to him and by silence he acquiesced to her usurping his authority.

 

[wolfwint]

Why did man need a helper ? Because man was weak, just as a woman was weak, if man was so strong, then man would had no need for a helper, therefore where a man is weak, a woman is strong, where a woman is weak, a man is strong, as both complement each other.

Are you married? It is no question of strong ore weak. Man and Woman belongs together. I suppose because woman are thinking and acting different then man. And so its very helpful. . Do you have been on a ship with two captains?Will be difficult! Better one capitain and one first officer.God gave an creation order. First the man was build then the woman. Of course you can ignore the word of God, but then it can be that you will run in the wrong direction

 

[Dagallen]

Are you married? It is no question of strong ore weak. Man and Woman belongs together. I suppose because woman are thinking and acting different then man. And so its very helpful. . Do you have been on a ship with two captains?Will be difficult! Better one capitain and one first officer.God gave an creation order. First the man was build then the woman. Of course you can ignore the word of God, but then it can be that you will run in the wrong direction

Man thinks in logic and with little emotions, as a woman thinks with her emotions and with little logic. Where man is weak, a woman is strong, where a woman is weak a man is strong, as the two complement one another, that they might live a balance life. As God is a God of logic and emotions, therefore God is an independent God, if you want to live an independent life, then have a mind like God. And yes I was married for 20 years but no more, as I have now been single for 18 years, why single ? Because my wife then, we did not complement one another, due to she was emotions with no logic at all but I have always been both a logical thinker who also is able to think with my emotions, I am an independent thinker, she was not, we were opposite.

 

[Dagallen]

Why does a man remain single all of his life ? Because he needs no helper. Why does a woman remain single all her life ? Because she needs no helper. Some men can think in logic and with his emotions, just as some women can do like wise but some cannot think with both, just as some women cannot think with both. Therefore marry your own kind.

 

[wolfwint]

Man thinks in logic and with little emotions, as a woman thinks with her emotions and with little logic. Where man is weak, a woman is strong, where a woman is weak a man is strong, as the two complement one another, that they might live a balance life. As God is a God of logic and emotions, therefore God is an independent God, if you want to live an independent life, then have a mind like God. And yes I was married for 20 years but no more, as I have now been single for 18 years, why single ? Because my wife then, we did not complement one another, due to she was emotions with no logic at all but I have always been both a logical thinker who also is able to think with my emotions, I am an independent thinker, she was not, we were opposite.

Sometimes logic is wrong and sometimes emotions, but i fear we will loose the topic. Clear is God createt us with both. If it is not clear what God says about woman and be pastor for me its clear and i mentioned the Scriptures which support it. Show me Scriptures which says that woman should be pastor too.

 

[wolfwint]

Why does a man remain single all of his life ? Because he needs no helper. Why does a woman remain single all her life ? Because she needs no helper. Some men can think in logic and with his emotions, just as some women can do like wise but some cannot think with both, just as some women cannot think with both. Therefore marry your own kind.

Paul gave a reason why to stay as single. To serve God!

 

[Dagallen]

1 Corinthians chapter 7:6 But I speak this with permission ( Paul was given permission from the leader if the Corinthians church ) and not as a commandment ( what Paul is about to say was not a commandment from the Lord ) Now 7-8-9 what Paul days is not a commandment from Lord, it's the inspired words of Paul, his advice, now watch what Paul says next in 10-11 and unto the married I command yet not I but the Lord, 10-11 is a commandment from the Lord, the inspired words of the Lord, according to Paul, let not the wife depart from her husband, and in 11 as well but now look how Paul goes back to giving his own advice, the inspired words of Paul not the inspired words of the Lord. 12 But to the rest speak I, ( his words, not the Lords words ,) not the Lord, as Paul continues with his own words, 25 now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord, yet I give my best judgment ( or advice ) as Paul ends chapter 7 with the inspired words of Paul. So Paul through out chapter 7 Paul only gives two passages,10 and 11 as the inspired words of the Lord, the rest Paul makes clear that what he spoke was not the inspired words of the Lord but the inspired words of Paul, as nothing in chapter 7 is anyone required to live by, except for 10-11.

 

[wolfwint]

1 Corinthians chapter 7:6 But I speak this with permission ( Paul was given permission from the leader if the Corinthians church ) and not as a commandment ( what Paul is about to say was not a commandment from the Lord ) Now 7-8-9 what Paul days is not a commandment from Lord, it's the inspired words of Paul, his advice, now watch what Paul says next in 10-11 and unto the married I command yet not I but the Lord, 10-11 is a commandment from the Lord, the inspired words of the Lord, according to Paul, let not the wife depart from her husband, and in 11 as well but now look how Paul goes back to giving his own advice, the inspired words of Paul not the inspired words of the Lord. 12 But to the rest speak I, ( his words, not the Lords words ,) not the Lord, as Paul continues with his own words, 25 now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord, yet I give my best judgment ( or advice ) as Paul ends chapter 7 with the inspired words of Paul. So Paul through out chapter 7 Paul only gives two passages,10 and 11 as the inspired words of the Lord, the rest Paul makes clear that what he spoke was not the inspired words of the Lord but the inspired words of Paul, as nothing in chapter 7 is anyone required to live by, except for 10-11.

Yes an interesting chapter, but still gods word. What you want to say with this,?

 

[wolfwint]

1 Corinthians chapter 7:6 But I speak this with permission ( Paul was given permission from the leader if the Corinthians church ) and not as a commandment ( what Paul is about to say was not a commandment from the Lord ) Now 7-8-9 what Paul days is not a commandment from Lord, it's the inspired words of Paul, his advice, now watch what Paul says next in 10-11 and unto the married I command yet not I but the Lord, 10-11 is a commandment from the Lord, the inspired words of the Lord, according to Paul, let not the wife depart from her husband, and in 11 as well but now look how Paul goes back to giving his own advice, the inspired words of Paul not the inspired words of the Lord. 12 But to the rest speak I, ( his words, not the Lords words ,) not the Lord, as Paul continues with his own words, 25 now concerning virgins, I have no commandment of the Lord, yet I give my best judgment ( or advice ) as Paul ends chapter 7 with the inspired words of Paul. So Paul through out chapter 7 Paul only gives two passages,10 and 11 as the inspired words of the Lord, the rest Paul makes clear that what he spoke was not the inspired words of the Lord but the inspired words of Paul, as nothing in chapter 7 is anyone required to live by, except for 10-11.

Yes an interesting chapter, but still gods word. What you want to say with this,?

 

[Dagallen]

Paul gave a reason why to stay as single. To serve God!

And how can you serve God fully ? By being able to think in logic and with your emotions at the same, therefore if you can have a mind set like God, then you can remain single because God remains number one but yet as Paul says, if you marry, you have committed no sin. You you marry, you have done good but if you remain single you have done better, as Paul is a promoter of single hood not a promoter if marriage, however if everyone would have taken up the ways if Paul on single hood, you and I would not be here, thank God mankind went God's way, be fruitful and multiply and plenish the earth, as Paul believed that you had to remain single, without sex, to be like the Lord but Paul lack understanding. As Paul would have been a terrible marriage consultant.

 

[Dagallen]

Yes an interesting chapter, but still gods word. What you want to say with this,?

It's the words of the Lord and the words of Paul as well, the words of both ? Yes ! The words of the Lord only ? No ! Inspired by Lord? Yes ! As everything Paul says, all is not the words of the Lord. As so many do read chapter 7 but refuse to except what Paul makes clear.

 

[Dino246]

Why you then not read what the word of god says? F.e. 1.Tim 2,11-14 ore Genesis 3,16? There it is clear said why a woman should not rule over man. And the role of a Pastor ore eldest is to lead and to have authority

Hi Wolfwint,
I have read these passages many times. I have also read many arguments for and against women in leadership...

Genesis 3:16 says, "but he will rule over you." This is a statement of consequence... both the man and the woman were sinful at this point. The woman in her sinful state would continually turn to her man, but in his sinful state he would rule over her.

1 Timothy 1 makes good sense when seen in light of the proto-Gnostic heresy. The essence of it is that all should learn, women included, especially those who come from a pagan background. Where a woman seeks to domineer men by arcane knowledge or seduction, she must no longer do so in the Church. Is this the only valid interpretation, no, but it does make sense of the passage. For a full explanation of this concept, read Who Said Women Can't Teach by Charles Trombley.

 

[Dagallen]

Last point, if you can not except what Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 except for two passages, that what he spoke was the inspired words of Paul, then the question becomes, how can you you except anything Paul says, even what he says about whether a woman can preach or teach ?

 

[wolfwint]

Hi Wolfwint,
I have read these passages many times. I have also read many arguments for and against women in leadership...

Genesis 3:16 says, "but he will rule over you." This is a statement of consequence... both the man and the woman were sinful at this point. The woman in her sinful state would continually turn to her man, but in his sinful state he would rule over her.

1 Timothy 1 makes good sense when seen in light of the proto-Gnostic heresy. The essence of it is that all should learn, women included, especially those who come from a pagan background. Where a woman seeks to domineer men by arcane knowledge or seduction, she must no longer do so in the Church. Is this the only valid interpretation, no, but it does make sense of the passage. For a full explanation of this concept, read Who Said Women Can't Teach by Charles Trombley.

Hi Dino, with Genesis 3,16 you are right. But to explain why woman can be pastors is for me to much mankind wisdom. Here for me is simple the word of God in a easy way to understand. Its not new that people try to explain away what the don't like ore don't agree with. It is interesting to see that many sects and false doctrines were influenced from woman. Ore when I think to the feminism movement. Yes, and one reason is also that man are not taking there responsibility for the task they have.

 

[wolfwint]

Last point, if you can not except what Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 except for two passages, that what he spoke was the inspired words of Paul, then the question becomes, how can you you except anything Paul says, even what he says about whether a woman can preach or teach ?

So you will say, because Paul said it it is no worth to note. So long Jesus is not saying so, it doesn't matter?
Then you can ignore nearly the whole epistels and you making yourself to the judge who determines what is right ore wrong.word of God ore not. Do so! Its yours responsibility and you have to stand before Christ. I believe what the word of God is saying from Genesis 1.1 till Revelation 22,21

 

[StanJ]

Why does a man remain single all of his life ? Because he needs no helper. Why does a woman remain single all her life ? Because she needs no helper. Some men can think in logic and with his emotions, just as some women can do like wise but some cannot think with both, just as some women cannot think with both. Therefore marry your own kind.

This is not what scripture teaches. God said it is not good for man to be alone. He provided a helper and the Hebrew also connotes succour, which implies assistance and support in times of hardship and distress. Being or staying single is definitely a choice but it is not the norm. God created Adam and Eve to be together and form the first family unit and as such they were representative of the original family unit which is programmed into us via procreation. just as we are all different individually all marriages are different for different reasons and there is no one way to choose a partner. Gen 2:23 is why we marry.

assistance and support in times of hardship and distress.

 

[StanJ]

Last point, if you can not except what Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians chapter 7 except for two passages, that what he spoke was the inspired words of Paul, then the question becomes, how can you you except anything Paul says, even what he says about whether a woman can preach or teach ?

As you have failed to properly established and exegete any point in regards to 1st Corinthians 7 then this post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If your point is that Paul is not a reliable author in the Bible then I rebuke your position because it is definitely unorthodox and unbiblical. If that's not what you're saying then please put some effort into explaining yourself and making an actual point. If you can't articulate something then it obviously isn't there in the scripture.

 

[Dagallen]

This is not what scripture teaches. God said it is not good for man to be alone. He provided a helper and the Hebrew also connotes succour, which implies assistance and support in times of hardship and distress. Being or staying single is definitely a choice but it is not the norm. God created Adam and Eve to be together and form the first family unit and as such they were representative of the original family unit which is programmed into us via procreation. just as we are all different individually all marriages are different for different reasons and there is no one way to choose a partner. Gen 2:23 is why we marry.

assistance and support in times of hardship and distress.

If everyone would have taken Paul's advice, that it was better to remain single, if mankind taken advice on this, you and I would not be here, as single hood was not God's intent but to be fruitful and multiple was God's intent for mankind, as a man and woman complement one another by obeying God's word, so if you remain single, you have committed no sin, just as if you get married, you have committed no sin.

 

[Dagallen]

As you have failed to properly established and exegete any point in regards to 1st Corinthians 7 then this post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If your point is that Paul is not a reliable author in the Bible then I rebuke your position because it is definitely unorthodox and unbiblical. If that's not what you're saying then please put some effort into explaining yourself and making an actual point. If you can't articulate something then it obviously isn't there in the scripture.

I do believe that Paul made himself very clear, the fact he made it clear that everything he spoke was not the inspired words of the Lord but some was when given, as Paul is very reliable and very honest by saying, for I say not the Lord, that's a very honest statement, a statement that you clearly don't accept but that's a choice you have the right to make, I stated my point and Paul backs my point but you refuse to accept, if you can't accept what it clearly says, then how can I believe anything you say, as many like to cheery pick, nevertheless, good debate.