Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johnson,
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Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
I agree. But he is a great "bulls-eye" for those that don't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today as all others will be too. It's the nature of the beast.
It is always good to hear from the person themselves what is actually being said because some can distort what is said and also some take a statement not in the context it was given too.
And sometimes we just agree to disagree on some things too but at the very least hear what they are saying in the context they are giving it first.
I agree. But he is a great "bulls-eye" for those that don't believe the gifts of the Spirit are for today as all others will be too. It's the nature of the beast.
It is always good to hear from the person themselves what is actually being said because some can distort what is said and also some take a statement not in the context it was given too.
And sometimes we just agree to disagree on some things too but at the very least hear what they are saying in the context they are giving it first.
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Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Do you really agree what Bill Johnson said in His "HEAVEN INVADES EARTH"? This is false teaching! We will not have heaven on earth. And for shure not human beeings can build heaven on earth. You can try, but this is not what the word of God commands us!
Do you really agree what Bill Johnson said in His "HEAVEN INVADES EARTH"? This is false teaching! We will not have heaven on earth. And for shure not human beeings can build heaven on earth. You can try, but this is not what the word of God commands us!
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
You are welcome. We are so quick to believe what is written by the so-called heretic hunters and often when we actually look at things - they are not what they were twisted to be in the first place which is exactly what Dr. Brown found out when he sat down to discuss things with the actual "horse".
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
You are welcome. We are so quick to believe what is written by the so-called heretic hunters and often when we actually look at things - they are not what they were twisted to be in the first place which is exactly what Dr. Brown found out when he sat down to discuss things with the actual "horse".
Galatians 5:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Are "Pentacostals" True Christians? How is it Baptists, Catholics and other main-line Christianity condemns them? Is it not confusing here on this site to foster interbreeding of religious sects? I am confused....What "Faith" is tolerated here? and "who" governs this site??? Sorry, but I am 'New' here and wish to know the nature of the "walls" of salvation that are built here. Brotherly love-john
Are "Pentacostals" True Christians? How is it Baptists, Catholics and other main-line Christianity condemns them? Is it not confusing here on this site to foster interbreeding of religious sects? I am confused....What "Faith" is tolerated here? and "who" governs this site??? Sorry, but I am 'New' here and wish to know the nature of the "walls" of salvation that are built here. Brotherly love-john
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Are not "tongues" a "sign"? ,,,and that for the "unbelievers"?? ...¶...Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Are not "tongues" a "sign"? ,,,and that for the "unbelievers"?? ...¶...Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Luke 13:24-30 is Luke's version of Matthew 7:13-27 as it ties in their rejection from sitting with the O.T. saints.
Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[SUP]28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.[SUP]29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Verse 29 above testifies to the gathering of saints at the pre trib rapture event.
Luke 14:15-24 has Jesus testifying to how believers will be ensnared by the cares of this life that they would not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes to take them to the King's supper. Luke 14:25-35 testifies what the cost of discipleship is in following Him that we are to lean on Him to help us follow the Bridegroom in leaving this world behind.
Jesus warned believers about Lot's wife in loving her city to not want to leave it behind.
Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.[SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.[SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
So the pre trib rapture will come before the fire comes on the earth followed by the great tribulation. No saint will be able to buy & sell unless they have the mark during the great tribulation and so hardly descriptive of the times when Jesus is warning believers not to be ensnared by the cares of this life if they were in the great tribulation, excusing themselves from the Lord to leave with Him to prefer to stay under all that oppression of the great tribulation.
So the warnings Jesus is giving to believers are for now; these latter days where faith is hard to find because of the falling away from the faith due to many apostasies as one of them is being mentioned of this thread. It is the cares of this life that can be a snare; the cares of how life will be in the great tribulation will hardly be a snare for a believer not wanting to leave.
Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
If you do not believe those verses should be applied in that way, feel free to explain them then as to what you are "escaping" from that is coming on the earth that the cares of life would be a snare to prevent you from wanting to leave?
Luke 13:24-30 is Luke's version of Matthew 7:13-27 as it ties in their rejection from sitting with the O.T. saints.
Luke 13:[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[SUP]28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.[SUP]29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
Verse 29 above testifies to the gathering of saints at the pre trib rapture event.
Luke 14:15-24 has Jesus testifying to how believers will be ensnared by the cares of this life that they would not want to leave when the Bridegroom comes to take them to the King's supper. Luke 14:25-35 testifies what the cost of discipleship is in following Him that we are to lean on Him to help us follow the Bridegroom in leaving this world behind.
Jesus warned believers about Lot's wife in loving her city to not want to leave it behind.
Luke 17:[SUP]26 [/SUP]And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.[SUP]27 [/SUP]They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.[SUP]28 [/SUP]Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;[SUP]29 [/SUP]But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.[SUP]30 [/SUP]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.[SUP]31 [/SUP]In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.[SUP]32 [/SUP]Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.[SUP]34 [/SUP]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
So the pre trib rapture will come before the fire comes on the earth followed by the great tribulation. No saint will be able to buy & sell unless they have the mark during the great tribulation and so hardly descriptive of the times when Jesus is warning believers not to be ensnared by the cares of this life if they were in the great tribulation, excusing themselves from the Lord to leave with Him to prefer to stay under all that oppression of the great tribulation.
So the warnings Jesus is giving to believers are for now; these latter days where faith is hard to find because of the falling away from the faith due to many apostasies as one of them is being mentioned of this thread. It is the cares of this life that can be a snare; the cares of how life will be in the great tribulation will hardly be a snare for a believer not wanting to leave.
Luke 21:[SUP]33 [/SUP]Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.[SUP]34 [/SUP]And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.[SUP]35 [/SUP]For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
If you do not believe those verses should be applied in that way, feel free to explain them then as to what you are "escaping" from that is coming on the earth that the cares of life would be a snare to prevent you from wanting to leave?
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
2Kings 13v14-21.
There was more divine power and anointing in the dead bones of Elisha than in the vast majority of churches here in the so-called civilized Western countries! LOL
What a real slap in the face for The Trinity that so many of God's children reject His anointing, spiritual gifts and ministeries, which cost the Lord Jesus so much to get, simply because they prefer the unscriptural traditions of men and honour from men and not God! Matt 15v1-20, John 5v44, Acts 2v16-33, Rom 10v7, Eph 4v7-16, 1Peter 3v18-20.
2Kings 13v14-21.
There was more divine power and anointing in the dead bones of Elisha than in the vast majority of churches here in the so-called civilized Western countries! LOL
What a real slap in the face for The Trinity that so many of God's children reject His anointing, spiritual gifts and ministeries, which cost the Lord Jesus so much to get, simply because they prefer the unscriptural traditions of men and honour from men and not God! Matt 15v1-20, John 5v44, Acts 2v16-33, Rom 10v7, Eph 4v7-16, 1Peter 3v18-20.
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Any one that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised him from the dead are saved. That foundation has been laid by Jesus Christ for believing in Him. But what we build on that foundation will be judged.
So that means we cannot call anyone not a christian. We cannot condemn them as being non-believers. We can say by the scripture how they are not abiding in Him and His words in the KJV as His disciples, but only God knows whom are His, having His seal.
What we can do for those professing Him is to correct them by His words in the KJV by His grace & by His help. If they do not repent nor continue to walk after the traditions taught of us but are disorderly, we are commanded to withdraw with His help from them, but to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still because they are still His, even after having fallen away from the faith.
2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP]4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;...........[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother..
Any one that believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised him from the dead are saved. That foundation has been laid by Jesus Christ for believing in Him. But what we build on that foundation will be judged.
So that means we cannot call anyone not a christian. We cannot condemn them as being non-believers. We can say by the scripture how they are not abiding in Him and His words in the KJV as His disciples, but only God knows whom are His, having His seal.
What we can do for those professing Him is to correct them by His words in the KJV by His grace & by His help. If they do not repent nor continue to walk after the traditions taught of us but are disorderly, we are commanded to withdraw with His help from them, but to not treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still because they are still His, even after having fallen away from the faith.
2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP]4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;...........[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother..
P
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Isn't a Christian someone who has personally acknowledged Christ as God? Anyone who has done this should be accepted here regardless of their Faith or the religious institution they identify with. We should tolerate other faiths and nonbelievers as well as long as they want to discuss Christianity respectfully and openly. We can learn from them and maybe convert them!
Isn't a Christian someone who has personally acknowledged Christ as God? Anyone who has done this should be accepted here regardless of their Faith or the religious institution they identify with. We should tolerate other faiths and nonbelievers as well as long as they want to discuss Christianity respectfully and openly. We can learn from them and maybe convert them!
Re: Condemning the Signs & Wonder Movements and Allegations Against Pastor Bill Johns
Hi Enow,
Would that include the pagan practice of grave sucking? I am sure you don't mean you would worship with them and hail them as 'good' & 'upright people'? John the Baptist had a few things to say to those who thought they were 'marked of' as being the covenant faithful.. 'Brood of vipers'.
Hi Enow,
Would that include the pagan practice of grave sucking? I am sure you don't mean you would worship with them and hail them as 'good' & 'upright people'? John the Baptist had a few things to say to those who thought they were 'marked of' as being the covenant faithful.. 'Brood of vipers'.