Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#641
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
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#641
AllenW said:
Isn't that against the ToS to question someone's faith in Jesus Christ?
So that would limit if not completely eliminate what one could say to another.
So one person could be saying things that would cause others to think that person is not saved and be unable to say anything.
Then the first person goes on thinking he is correct because no one challenges him.
So your statement above, does anyone not want to answer any questions, then you praise the Lord as though what you are saying is correct.
The truth is you'll never know the truth on these forums because people aren't allowed to say what needs to be said.
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The truth is clearly spoken in the forums, the question is how honest people are
about it.

In truth many denominations do not like other denominations and regard them
as wrong, or miss-guided. It would be strange if such notions did not appear
on these discussions.

A funny one for me was saying I was a "sinner saved by grace" One said
I was no longer a sinner but redeemed.
I then said I was a "saint saved by grace" Another said was I claiming
perfectionism.

So some are just antagonistic no matter the language you use.
My approach is to understand someones theology and work out where
the differences are. And if you do not do this by saying they are right,
then clearly you have not understood anything. lol.

Now I say Halleluyah, because we are called to praise in all circumstances.

And most of these certainties people are referring to often are one emphasis over
another.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#642
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#642
Satan doesn't need us to fall into gross sin in order to defeat us, a large dose of laziness will do the trick just as well. Put Christ first in your life, and then commit every hour of the day to him.

Quote by Billy Graham.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#643
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,453
113
#643
PeterJens said:
The truth is clearly spoken in the forums, the question is how honest people are
about it.

In truth many denominations do not like other denominations and regard them
as wrong, or miss-guided. It would be strange if such notions did not appear
on these discussions.

A funny one for me was saying I was a "sinner saved by grace" One said
I was no longer a sinner but redeemed.
I then said I was a "saint saved by grace" Another said was I claiming
perfectionism.

So some are just antagonistic no matter the language you use.
My approach is to understand someones theology and work out where
the differences are. And if you do not do this by saying they are right,
then clearly you have not understood anything. lol.

Now I say Halleluyah, because we are called to praise in all circumstances.

And most of these certainties people are referring to often are one emphasis over
another.
Click to expand...
It's funny also because I have 2 Bible's I love to use but my HCSB commentary was written just about all of them by different very educated Baptist. Now compared to my NIV it has commentary that is very different on the hard scriptures like salvation. You can see the biased beliefs in the HCSB commentary compared to my NIV explains the scriptures in such a way that really the scriptures itself makes sense compared to my HCSB I got to really figure out what they are talking about.
 
D

DavidA7

Guest
#644
#644
Idk where this thread stands but I don't believe in once saved always saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#645
#645
Roughsoul1991 said:
Satan doesn't need us to fall into gross sin in order to defeat us, a large dose of laziness will do the trick just as well. Put Christ first in your life, and then commit every hour of the day to him.

Quote by Billy Graham.
Click to expand...
We do not have to worry about satan so much, Our flesh is all that is needed to cause us to stumble.

All we have to do is resist satan and he will flee. Our flesh however, is always their talking to us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#646
#646
Roughsoul1991 said:
It's funny also because I have 2 Bible's I love to use but my HCSB commentary was written just about all of them by different very educated Baptist. Now compared to my NIV it has commentary that is very different on the hard scriptures like salvation. You can see the biased beliefs in the HCSB commentary compared to my NIV explains the scriptures in such a way that really the scriptures itself makes sense compared to my HCSB I got to really figure out what they are talking about.
Click to expand...
The NIV can be dangerous is spots. Much like other bibles. I like to have an assortment on problem passages, then go to the original languages.. I just bought an ESV (I was the only one in church using NKJV, so I wanted one most use)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#647
#647
DavidA7 said:
Idk where this thread stands but I don't believe in once saved always saved.
Click to expand...
Do you think eternal life is eternal or conditional?
 
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Enow

Banned
#649
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#649
Roughsoul1991 said:
Satan doesn't need us to fall into gross sin in order to defeat us, a large dose of laziness will do the trick just as well. Put Christ first in your life, and then commit every hour of the day to him.

Quote by Billy Graham.
Click to expand...
Commit does not always mean "I will do it" as most believer's commitment does mean. It is his commitment which he had made and he will do it. That only speaks of him. Not of his faith in the Lord.

Commit also means a different definition which is entirely opposite of what commitment means. Commit also means to entrust or to roll over. That means you are entrusting Someone Else's to do the work. That is how a believer who lives by faith in Jesus Christ & all His promises to us uses "commit" to mean as does the scripture in the King James Bible.

Course there is another definition of commit which is to perform an act or not to perform the act as in thous shalt not commit adultery.

In any event, for a believer that follows Christ, he is committing, as in, he is entrusting his life to Him to help him to follow Him, because after all, He is more than just the Savior, He is also our Good Shepherd too. A believer's commitment does not reflect that faith in Him to do it. It is either we live by faith in Him or we are living by keeping that commitment to Him in how we live the christian life as if we can finish by the flesh & will power what was begun in the Spirit in following Him.

So either we say what we mean or religious christians will just get the praise from men for keeping their commitments....as it is nothing but an idle boast of man.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#650
#650
mailmandan said:
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Salvation is not probation.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door. ;)
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He is also a narrow door. which does not look good to those on the outside. But to those who make it in. it is the most beautiful site they have ever seen. And would never want to go back even if they could
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#651
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#651
Salvation is a walk not arriving.

If you leave the walk, how can you claim to be part of God anymore, that
would be absurd.

whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16

If people have ceased believing, then they will perish.

You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 10:22

The one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:13

Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Mark 13:13

He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 1:8

We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.
Heb 3:14

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2 Tim 4:7

This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

If we disown him, he will also disown us
2 Tim 2:12

But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
Matt 10:33

This is a walk of love and trust, where our words and intentions matter and everything
hangs on giving and receiving in Christ.

But for some relationships, love and trust are too difficult, they want certainty, because
the distrust words and love, even though this is the foundation of Christ himself.
 
E

Enow

Banned
#652
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#652
eternally-gratefull said:
He is also a narrow door. which does not look good to those on the outside. But to those who make it in. it is the most beautiful site they have ever seen. And would never want to go back even if they could
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That reference is not about how hard the christian life is. That reference is reproving how believers will broaden the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when John 5:23 specifically stated the Father's will on how He wants us to honor Him and that is by the only way of the Son. Jesus had given the commandment of His invitation on how we are to come to God the Father by and that includes worship and that is by the only way of the Son by honoring Him and glorifying the Son and by Him, God the Father as well ( Philippians 2:5-11 )

The Holy Spirit is God but He has been sent to dwell in us to lead us in testifying of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) and He does that through us ( John 15:27 ) as the glory of God is in His Son ( John 13:31-32 )

There are sinners that worship spirits and relates to spirits in the occult and the only way God can call them away from their spirits and from bringing their practices of any focus on the spirits, is to seek the face of the Bridegroom in worship, prayer, and fellowship.

That is why when they had broaden the way in the worship place by including the Holy Spirit in the spotlight, seducing spirits comes in and take their eyes off of the Son in worship to chase after them to receive "again" after a sign, thinking they were the Holy Spirit coming and going in the place. It does not matter that YOU KNOW that is not the Holy Spirit when people fall down in confusion because they were honoring the Holy Spirit or addressing the Holy Spirit in worship or had been when this supernatural phenomenon had occurred as they relate their experience to others and others follow; and sure enough, sometimes the phenomenon happens again and anything you say falls on deaf ears.

The narrow way of Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is about all those apostate movement of the spirit that is a result when believers had broaden the way in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as Matthew 7:24-27 testify that by that iniquity, many house have fallen in reference to believers falling down by that spirit.

The solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate; to focus only on honoring the Son in the worship place of any one seeks to honor the Father in worship at all. That is what scripture says & the indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing to because He would never share in the spotlight of Whom He seeks to glorify thru us, but the spirits of the anti christ would as anti christ as used in scripture, means "instead of Christ" or to be clear, "instead of the Son" since Jesus is THE Christ.

So believers need to stop using that reference as if living the chrstian life is hard; when Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light and we shall find rest unto our souls by learning of Him in trusting Him at His word that He will do it. That reference is about keeping our eyes on the Bridegroom in worship to be that abiding bride of Christ by the grace of God & His help when trusting Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd in helping us to follow Him in being His disciples in speaking of the Son in seeking His glory and by Him, the glory of God the Father.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#653
#653
Enow said:
That reference is not about how hard the christian life is. That reference is reproving how believers will broaden the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when John 5:23 specifically stated the Father's will on how He wants us to honor Him and that is by the only way of the Son. Jesus had given the commandment of His invitation on how we are to come to God the Father by and that includes worship and that is by the only way of the Son by honoring Him and glorifying the Son and by Him, God the Father as well ( Philippians 2:5-11 )

The Holy Spirit is God but He has been sent to dwell in us to lead us in testifying of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) and He does that through us ( John 15:27 ) as the glory of God is in His Son ( John 13:31-32 )

There are sinners that worship spirits and relates to spirits in the occult and the only way God can call them away from their spirits and from bringing their practices of any focus on the spirits, is to seek the face of the Bridegroom in worship, prayer, and fellowship.

That is why when they had broaden the way in the worship place by including the Holy Spirit in the spotlight, seducing spirits comes in and take their eyes off of the Son in worship to chase after them to receive "again" after a sign, thinking they were the Holy Spirit coming and going in the place. It does not matter that YOU KNOW that is not the Holy Spirit when people fall down in confusion because they were honoring the Holy Spirit or addressing the Holy Spirit in worship or had been when this supernatural phenomenon had occurred as they relate their experience to others and others follow; and sure enough, sometimes the phenomenon happens again and anything you say falls on deaf ears.

The narrow way of Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is about all those apostate movement of the spirit that is a result when believers had broaden the way in the worship place to include the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as Matthew 7:24-27 testify that by that iniquity, many house have fallen in reference to believers falling down by that spirit.

The solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate; to focus only on honoring the Son in the worship place of any one seeks to honor the Father in worship at all. That is what scripture says & the indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing to because He would never share in the spotlight of Whom He seeks to glorify thru us, but the spirits of the anti christ would as anti christ as used in scripture, means "instead of Christ" or to be clear, "instead of the Son" since Jesus is THE Christ.

So believers need to stop using that reference as if living the chrstian life is hard; when Jesus said His yoke is easy and His burden is light and we shall find rest unto our souls by learning of Him in trusting Him at His word that He will do it. That reference is about keeping our eyes on the Bridegroom in worship to be that abiding bride of Christ.
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actually that reference is about how hard it is to find the true way to salvation (life) and how easy it is to find the way to death (the broad gate)

It has nothing to do with the christian life at all. your right.
 
E

Enow

Banned
#654
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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0
#654
eternally-gratefull said:
actually that reference is about how hard it is to find the true way to salvation (life) and how easy it is to find the way to death (the broad gate)

It has nothing to do with the christian life at all. your right.
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Believers & pastors have applied that reference to testify that Jesus Christ is the only way any one can be saved in deference to those that say that there are other ways to get into Heaven..... like Billy Graham.

[video=youtube;f68IgZruyNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68IgZruyNI[/video]

I know that the video is including scriptures in deferring from what Billy Graham is saying, but it is on what Billy Graham is saying that I wish to call everybody's attention to, because he is saying that there are other ways into Heaven besides believing even in the name of Jesus Christ.

But Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is not the message about other ways into Heaven, because it is about signs and lying wonders (Matthew 7:21-23 ) by an iniquity of focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship and seeking to receive Him "again" after a sign by which many believers are falling down in these movements ( Matthew 7:24-27 ) as Jesus points out the cause of this falling down is by that iniquity in Matthew 7:13-14 whereby the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son in prayer, fellowship, & worship ( Luke 13:24-30 )
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#655
Apr 7, 2014
25,085
13,095
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#655
eternally-gratefull said:
He is also a narrow door. which does not look good to those on the outside. But to those who make it in. it is the most beautiful site they have ever seen. And would never want to go back even if they could
Click to expand...
Amen! Those who are trying to "do it themselves and save" don't understand that. Such people also confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.
 
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DavidA7

Guest
#656
#656
I think it is based on the heart, look into imputation vs impartation, and read in romans how the Abraham had to be credited for righteousness for his faith because the promise had not yet come.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#657
#657
DavidA7 said:
I think it is based on the heart, look into imputation vs impartation, and read in romans how the Abraham had to be credited for righteousness for his faith because the promise had not yet come.
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I think Paul is trying to show us it happens to us the same way.

Abraham was declared righteous before he did one work. We are the same. We are not righteous ourselves. we are imputed Gods righteousness.. based on the cross.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#658
#658
Enow said:
Believers & pastors have applied that reference to testify that Jesus Christ is the only way any one can be saved in deference to those that say that there are other ways to get into Heaven..... like Billy Graham.

[video=youtube;f68IgZruyNI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f68IgZruyNI[/video]

I know that the video is including scriptures in deferring from what Billy Graham is saying, but it is on what Billy Graham is saying that I wish to call everybody's attention to, because he is saying that there are other ways into Heaven besides believing even in the name of Jesus Christ.

But Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 is not the message about other ways into Heaven, because it is about signs and lying wonders (Matthew 7:21-23 ) by an iniquity of focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship and seeking to receive Him "again" after a sign by which many believers are falling down in these movements ( Matthew 7:24-27 ) as Jesus points out the cause of this falling down is by that iniquity in Matthew 7:13-14 whereby the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son in prayer, fellowship, & worship ( Luke 13:24-30 )
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[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Because[SUP][a][/SUP] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The way to life is Christ, it is being saved.

The way to destruction is to continue on the path you are on, and try to enter the wide gate (like most of the world religions are doing)

Few find life because Christ is the only way.

I do nto see how any one can use this passage to say there are many ways to heaven. or it is how to live a christ like life.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#659
Apr 7, 2014
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#659
eternally-gratefull said:
I think Paul is trying to show us it happens to us the same way.

Abraham was declared righteous before he did one work. We are the same. We are not righteous ourselves. we are imputed Gods righteousness.. based on the cross.
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Amen! Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#660
#660
mailmandan said:
Amen! Those who are trying to "do it themselves and save" don't understand that. Such people also confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture.
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Sadly, I do not think they understand, the wide gate is prescriptive of religion, the DIY salvationists.. All the worlds religions teach how to get to heaven, is based of things you do or do not do. they all fit in this one gate.

The one gate, which is only through christ, In which we have to see a vision of ourselves the way God sees us (horrifying vision I may add and scary) is the one most do not want to go to.. because they have to see themselves. as they really are..

Thats why religion is so easy, I can water down the law so I do not look as evil as I really am. then I can make it to where I want to go (heaven) and all is good.

well it is not..
 
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