Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

PeterJens · Feb 3, 2017

You are correct this is our view.
The basic model says loss of faith in Christ is loss of salvation.
So this is real rebellion against God after coming to know Him.

A lot of people have known people who have back slidden and then come back,
while others completely walk away.

Now my issue was not was this possible but this being the reason for someone
acting as if I did not know Christ and by implication evil and walking in the flesh.

Now I have always been willing to talk about these issues, and define them, but
the accusation has been I have not. Now for anyone on this forum who knows me
I lay out my position very clearly, and will not take prisoners. That is what they do
not like.

Free will cannot be compromised, and love depends on free will with boundaries.
Some psychological relationship positions or states hate the idea of boundaries and
free choice so this model does not sit well with them.

I have seen dualistic people loving dualistic gnostic theology, which again I can truly
understand. This illustrates how we feel God works with us, often reflects not God,
but what state we are in.

The problem with how one relates in life internally, this is not reality or where scripture
is. Scripture is brutal, exact and final, no fuzzy edges, no compromise, which makes us
need to change who we are inside which is very hard.

So I do understand the territory we are in, and why arguments will not resolve these things.

PeterJens · Feb 3, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

I am not being defensive, but this is simply not true.
"never" "anything" are things you should not say, because they are simply an exaguration and
therefore untrue. And it is always more untrue, because if you read any of my posts, I always
talk about everything, which people sometimes find hard to handle.

If EG does not want to answer any questions, like do I know the Lord, and if not, why not,
that is an improvement on what has happened before, Praise the Lord, Halleluyah.

skippypb · Feb 4, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Don't feel bad I think we all had to suffer through that..lol

I am still in my flesh, I Still sin, I still suffer ill health, I will (unless God comes first) die. I still have to watch people suffer. I still am not perfect.

But those things will happen one day, It is not a question of if they may or may not happen. How do we know? Because we are saved.

Maybe complete is not the right word. Maybe we need another term? Maybe we could say my salvation will be realized? But I am just s saved today, as I was the moment I first was adopted as a child of God.

im going to keep my replies as short as i can this time . i may or may not address everything you say but will try to address the most important parts.

changing the word to realized doesnt fix it either . its still basically the same thing . at least in my opinion . just saying

I can maybe see that, But I am my fathers son the day I was born, I am my fathers son, and I will always be my fathers son. So it not unheard of to use those terms..

i understand that its not unheard of to use those terms . its what needs to be done if it is truly osas . the question is whether that is the accurate and scriptural definition or use for it . it lies at the heart of this debate .

It is a state. that never changes, to me that is how I see it.. I was saved when I was young, I am saved today, And I will be saved when I am ressurected. or the day of atonemnt as paul calls it.

what happens if you got saved , were walking the walk in the lord , were really on fire for the lord but then decide for some reason that you dont believe in the lord anymore and dont want to follow him anymore ,essentially renouncing your faith? are you still going to be saved when the time comes when your salvation would have been(to use your terms) realized or completed?

If you do not call out and ask God to save you, Can you tell me how you would be saved? Think of the pharisee and tax collector. The pharisee praised God he was who he was, The tax collector called out to God. who did Jesus say was saved?

Again, the so called "sinners prayer" by itself will save no one.. Many claim to have faith, but have no faith at all.. so whether they said a sinners prayer or not would not matter..

i answered the how in another reply to someone else . in an effort to keep things somewhat short i would refer you to that. as im aware that you do not believe that the sinners prayer in itself will "save" anyone . im in no way saying that those who came to christ wont be "saved" if they did the sinners prayer . im just questioning the scriptural truth of that teaching is all. also , if that teaching isnt true , the how of coming to the faith is very important in understanding whether osas is a true doctrine.

Not sure how using passages which speak of people already saved helps.. You will have to help me there because I am not sure what your getting at.

the point is , what does it mean is calling on the lord mean in these verses ? it cant mean the same thing that youre suggesting it means as far as proving the sinners prayer doctrine . these are christians already , why are they continuing to call on the lord using your definition since they should have already done it and its a once and done deal ?

wouldnt it be logical , at least in these verses , that calling on the lord simply means to call to him in prayer ? to call on him because you depend on him ? if so , how do you know that the verses you use to prove sinners prayer doesnt have the same meaning as what i suggest instead of what you suggest ? cant the phrase if you call on the name of the lord you will be saved also mean that those who continue to call on the name of the lord in prayer because they depend and trust in him will be saved? basically , cant that mean that its an action of existing faith instead of an action of someone coming to the faith in the verses you use?

The tax collector is a great example..

and again I will ask, Why do you think people can be saved who do not ask God to save them? I do noot understand how do you think they were saved?

as i said earlier here , look at a reply to another post i made for the answer .

So God saved people before they had faith and asked him to have mercy on their souls?(your making a calvanist argument) or because they had faith?

You ever talk to god without uttering a word? I do it all the time..

that is not at all what im saying . again , read the reply to another post i made about how ppl come to the faith .

also , every denomination or belief system will have something in common with calvanist doctrine . does that mean if someone from those denominations subscribe completely to calvanism ? so in otherwords , if you use any doctrine that is the same as a calvanist doctrine , then someone could try to say that against you as well . just something to ponder .

It does not say they never asked God to pray either does it?

im sorry , im not trying to be smart or rude with this comment but ..
isnt that like saying , "its not in scripture so it must be true" ?

No everyone prayes out loud..

Why would he need to?
i understand not everyone prays outloud , i myself dont unless leading prayer in a group or with someone else .

Repent means to repent, You repent BEFORE you have faith, once you trust. you say yes to God.. That is what romans 10 is all abouot. it does not have to be out load.

basically i dont completely agree with the ordering (although i admit at times it does go in that order but not always) but i do agree that repentance does not need to be outloud. i will not get into why at this time but it is partly explained in the ordering of how we come to the faith reply i made on the other post about how we come to the faith . this will come up again though .

Yes, He asked God, And Jesus said yes.. SO not sure what tryign to get at. I guess I am confused on this one..lol

i think i answered this as well in that other post ive been talking about . i cant remember for sure whether i deleted that part or not now .. lol

im good at confusing people , especially those who havent heard my arguments before . i sincerely do not intentionally try to confuse ppl , it just happens , i guess its a gift ? lol

if it depends on you, then salvation is by works, not grace.

no it does not , it depends on faith in that grace .

Eternal security is found in scripture. The seal of the spirit is a seal of security, Eternal life is a pledge of security, the idea that you will never die is a term of security, the idea that you will be risen (vs being delivered) is security.

eternal promise is found in scripture , out eternal security within that promise is what we are debating . as far as the seal of the spirit , that is a deposit towards salvation , as i said in that post i keep referring back to , that needs to be discussed later . we have the promise of eternal life , we do not currently have eternal life do we ? the promise is secure , doesnt mean that there isnt something we can do to not be apart of that promise anymore .

if you are saved , which to you means we are eternally secure meaning we cant lose our salvation , does that mean we could take the mark of the beast and still be saved ?

If I have no security, I have no hope only in myself. for I am then required to maintain whatever standard, or do what ever is required to save myself. salvation then to me stops being a gift, but becomes a downpayment which can be taken away.

if you have security there is no need for hope to begin with . the hope we have is that the lord is able and willing to fulfill his promises to us . to live a life pleasing to the lord in no way makes it stop being a gift . maybe you think i believe in works based salvation , which i dont . faith is what saves us but faith without works is dead . can that faith save you ? james 2 says it cant .

I hope this makes sense to you.. It is how I see it.

i think it did , but that doesnt mean i didnt misunderstand something somewhere though . lol

Thank you, Not everyone here is that way,, on both sides of the discussion sadly,

I look forweard to blessed conversation and discussion.

yes unfortunately that is true even in real life . thank you for being civil so far , i really dont need a shoe thrown at me or anything after all ..lol its been a refreshing conversation and discussion so far . thanks ! god bless !

skippypb · Feb 4, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

i read that article , i will just have to say there is a lot i dont agree with . one thing i noticed about it is the lack of scripture to prove its point though . thats ok though , no one will ever agree completely with someone elses ideas or beliefs .
i do not believe in work based at all either . i believe faith makes us do the works(or should) . its still all about faith , james 2:13-26 makes it clear that faith without works is dead though and the kind of faith that has no works will not save us . the works themselves dont save us its still faith in what christ did for us and what he promised us . either way , thats a discussion for another thread . in the end it will be everyone's personal choice what they believe . i just hope and pray we all decide to believe whats right and true . thanks for sharing that article though , it was still interesting ! god bless!

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 4, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Remaining faithful

[h=1]John 8:31-32New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are[/h][FONT=&quot]31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Preparation[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 12:35-48New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Watchfulness[/h][FONT=&quot]35 “Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning,36 like servants waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. Truly I tell you, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the middle of the night or toward daybreak. 39 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]42 The Lord answered, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. 44 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 45 But suppose the servant says to himself, ‘My master is taking a long time in coming,’ and he then begins to beat the other servants, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 13:22-24New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]The Narrow Door[/h][FONT=&quot]22 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

If we back slide and allow our cooperation with Christ to become lazy and un-fruitful. This can lead us down dark paths we may not ever had expected to go. And one day, death in life will occur, and it may be too late.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 6:1-8New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites,[b] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

More teaching to follow Christ.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 5:1-2New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Telling us our cooperation to allow the Spirit of God to guide us.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 5:15-18New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]15 Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise,16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is. 18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Warning us on disobedience.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 5:6-7New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.7 Therefore do not be partners with them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Sever warnings

[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 10:26-39New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[b] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light,when you endured in a great conflict full of suffering.33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution;at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You suffered along with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions. 35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”[c][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]38 And,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“But my righteous[d] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”[e][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Grace is freely given to all but cooperation is required in Faith.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 4, 2017

skippypb said:

That's fine thank you for reading. I do not believe faith makes us do works. I think we have to practice living in Faith for Christ which produces good works as Christ works in us to become like Christ through his words and spiritual urges. But the only reason we can practice believing in Faith is because God gifted it to us to use or not use. Same with Grace it's free if we pursue through Christ or not.

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 4, 2017

PeterJens said:

You are correct this is our view.
The basic model says loss of faith in Christ is loss of salvation.
So this is real rebellion against God after coming to know Him.

A lot of people have known people who have back slidden and then come back,
while others completely walk away.

Now my issue was not was this possible but this being the reason for someone
acting as if I did not know Christ and by implication evil and walking in the flesh.

Now I have always been willing to talk about these issues, and define them, but
the accusation has been I have not. Now for anyone on this forum who knows me
I lay out my position very clearly, and will not take prisoners. That is what they do
not like.

Free will cannot be compromised, and love depends on free will with boundaries.
Some psychological relationship positions or states hate the idea of boundaries and
free choice so this model does not sit well with them.

I have seen dualistic people loving dualistic gnostic theology, which again I can truly
understand. This illustrates how we feel God works with us, often reflects not God,
but what state we are in.

The problem with how one relates in life internally, this is not reality or where scripture
is. Scripture is brutal, exact and final, no fuzzy edges, no compromise, which makes us
need to change who we are inside which is very hard.

So I do understand the territory we are in, and why arguments will not resolve these things.

Very well said

mailmandan · Feb 4, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

If you continue in my word then you are TRULY disciples of mine. Those who do not continue are NOT TRULY disciples of Jesus. John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of genuine or consummated belief resulting in salvation." See John 2:23-25 (where their "belief" is clearly superficial in nature); John 8:31,40,45-46 (where the Jews who were said to have "believed him" turn out to be slaves to sin [v. 34], indifferent to Jesus’ word [v. 37], children of the devil [v. 44], liars [v. 55], setting out to stone the one they have professed to believe in (v. 59).

To "sin willfully" (Hebrews 10:26) in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is CONTINUOUS ACTION - A MATTER OF PRACTICE. Now we don't walk along our daily life and accidently fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a CONTINUOUS ACTION. The unrighteous practice sin - (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God - (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9).

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in v. 29 seems to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is a term often applied to Christians; it is the verb form of the adjective "holy") really just means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "made holy" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" and from other non-Christians and sinful things without experiencing salvation as Paul clearly explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the Sabbath was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), the Lord was saved (Leviticus 10:3), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36) and many other things that just do not line up with scripture.

*In verse 39, the author sets up the contrast that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the context, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as an active participant in the Christian community of believers, but who has subsequently committed apostasy by renouncing his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and by repudiating the work and the person of Christ himself. Such a person’s apostasy is thus evidence that his identification with the Christian community was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 4, 2017

skippypb said:

Not sure how.. I am just as saved today as I will be 1 million years from now. My salvation is not yet complete though. because I am still in the flesh. I Still suffer, I still have to sleep and rest. I still get sick, and I will still die.

There are many aspects to salvation. It is a process..

That is what paul meant when three times he said sealed withe spirit UNTIL the day of redemption. That day is the day we are glorified.

In my view it is.

and if you do not mind, I would rather use eternal security. I like it better than OSAS.. to me OSAS is a churchy word. and I am starting to really hate churchy words..

Why would I ever do this? Unless I was never saved to begin with. other than that, I can see no reason why a person who was saved by God, Given the Holy Spirit. Experienced truly Gods love. Had a god who took care of him, Disciplines him, Loves him, Cherishes him, NEVER lets him down would want to walk away.

In another thread we are talking about the sermon on the mount and the seed. To me someone who seems on fire for awhile. but the things of the world pull hi8m away, the seed never took root. so it was easily blown away. Or the problems of life were so great, his faith could not keep him because again, the seed had no root. That is what you are explaining in here in this example to me.

Not everyone who claims to have faith and plays church is saved, we see this all over the nt..

As I said, the sinners prayer by itself will not save anyone. And I do not know anyone who would say otherwise. and I agree, the how we come to christ is the basis of eternal security (again, would rather not use OSAS)

I call on the lord all the time to help me in the time of need.

I do not call on the lord to save. I did that already, so again, I am not sure what your getting at. forgive me.

I still am not following your reason. forgive me..

If i have faith in my father, does my father automatically give me what I need so I do not have to ask? We are told we do not recieve because we do not ask. We can not just expect God to give us something, he is a relational God. he wants to talk to us.

Can God save me if I do not ask? Well I am sure he can. But what affect would that have on me in my security in him?

and if our relationship starts whith me not asking, what is going to promt me to talk to him later.

I hope this makes sense.

can you link the post number? or state what it is?

in the future it may help if nothng if you copy and paste the post. I will try to go back and look. but may not know what I am looking for.

A calvanist believes one is regenerated before faith. Is this what you are saying?

because that is what it sounded like. which is why I mentioned it.

It is still true.. Your trying to base an argument on which we do not know one way or the other. Thus it is by defenition a weak argument.

I do not know what they were thinking, and neither do you. all we BOTH are doing is assuming..

Yes, So it means you can not earn it. which means it depends on God and God alone. we must be careful not to put "I" in the equation.

I am debating eternal security, based on the eternal promise. The question is, if God keeps those promises. I am secure. If I have to earn those promises, I am not secure..

So does God save me, or do I save myself (that is what I see as the issue)

the seal of the spirit is the pledge, or guarantee of eternal life UNTIl the day of redemption. which is the day I am ressurected by Christ, and my redemption is complete.

As for eternal life.

John 3: 16. Whoever believed HAS eternal life

John 6, Whoever partakes of the food Jesus gave HAS eternal life. Will never die. Will live forever (these are posessions)

John 10. Hesus said I give them eternal life. they have it.

rom 6.. the gift of God is eternal life.

1 tim 6: 12. lay hold of eternal life. You can not lay hold of something you do not have

titus 1: 2 Hope of eternal life. God promised before time began. If I do not have eternal life, I have no hope.

1 John 1. Eternal life was manifest in us

1 John 2 eternal life was promised to us

1 John 5. Eternal life was already given to us

1 John 5. we may know we HAVE eternal life. and this is the basis of our faith.

using scripture to interpret scripture. here are the base eternal life passages which all scripture must line up with.

If there is. then we can save ourselves. our eternal life is just a downpayment, we must work to keep it. ie, earn it..

Not going to get into that. That us a future event. we would just be assuming things which have not happened yet.. I would just say, would someone who had faith in Christ take the mark? How many people went to their deaths, go every day even today in muslim countries (I saw horrific video of christians being burnt alive a few days ago)

where is your faith? in this life, or in christ. that is all I will say.

I disagree, that is what Paul said to titus, in the HOPE of eternal life. which God who can not lie promised. And john, I want you to KNOW YOU HAVE ewternal life, so you may continue to believe in his name.

My whole christian life and serving others is based on the fact that I have etertnal hope. so I can keep marching forward in this life no matter how bad things get. It is what paul said he considered all h8is sufferings but a momentary light affliction. because his HOPE was on eternal things, not temporal. As he said, to be absent from body is to be present with the lord. You can not say these things unless you KNOW you are eternally securie IN CHRIST.

the key words being in christ. trusting in christ. You can not be secure if you are trusting your ability to maintain your salvation.

That is another discussion.

Hoever to overview, James said a dead faith can not save you, HE NEVER said faith alone can not save you.

Faith is never alone. that was his point (see also hebrews 11)

if you claim works are required. then youmust rethink what you just claimed.

I feel ya, I think there is still some misunderstanding..lol

I hear ya bro.. getting slapped never changed anyones mind. or brought anyone to an agreement.lol

eternally-gratefull · Feb 4, 2017

skippypb said:

I think I found it.

question. Do you believe one must be immersed in water to be saved. are they justified (saved) before or after.

I would like to to get this answered first. instead of assuming, then we can discuss..

skippypb · Feb 4, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

yes , i know i didnt word that too well and its more complicated . i understand its not just faith that makes us do those works . i wrote that it in a hurry because i wanted to let you know i read that article and was responding briefly to your other remark about works . i didnt want to create a debate about it so i left it short but yes worded poorly .. lol . either way , i think that would be a good topic for another thread . "what is works and how should they be at work in our walk with the lord?" or something like that ..lol god bless !

PeterJens · Feb 4, 2017

skippypb said:

What people seem to forget, is we are children before Christ, the Lord, who is teaching
us His ways. The whole attitude is Jesus's words are dealt with dishonour and disregard.

Yes it is hard. But our King became a man, to show us the way. As creator He called us,
yet our sinful inclination is to walk away and rebel. He calls us to learn how to change,
to have fellowship with our King, to know His ways and to learn the love He made us with
and calls us to walk with Him.

Guardian1970 · Feb 7, 2017

PeterJens said:

Good job by all interesting points. Thank you all for being civil.

It is in love we grow, it is in love we show He is King and Lord of our lives.

I believe as one of you said in repentance you don't have to say it out loud. That doesn't matter God sees and k ones your heart. Just like in Acts when it is written about how while the deciples where still teaching all of the Auden the believers received the Holy Spirit. Caught the brothers off guard. When I was saved I was brought through the church into a private chapel and we prayed there. That is where the Holy Spirit fell on me. I know what your saying about struggle, everyday. That is because I was not devoted like before.

I am still trying to get back to it. I didn't have Him center of my Life. As any person would naturally make the love of their life the center. Which is basically to me what the greatest commandement calls for. Which other scripture calls us to do as well. I know it uses strong words where it is written "anyone who does not hate their mother, father". and so on... is not worthy of me. I think He is reiterating as strong as possible let no one, no one tear you away from God. He should be first, His will first. All other things will follow. They (family/friends) sometimes can be the very thorns that choke out our spiritual life and will of God. Somtimes strangers. I have found a large truth in my life is this, all my sins I have ever done, have been for self centered reasons, "all about me." No matter the sin. Jealousy, coveting, lust, anger, pride too many to list. These human emotions where all about me. When I am walking in spirit with the Father. It's not about me anymore, nothing is, it's about God, his will. His love and the yearn to share his perfect free gift.

It's funny but it reminds me of the quote from Star Wars, when Yoda was talking about the things of the dark side. Yet to be part of the force (good) is to be selfless. Serving all, not looking to be served. I know the ideology and movie was loosely based on good vs evil and Christianity. I found that part kind of neat though. It had truth in it.

Love to you brothers and sisters in Christ

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 8, 2017

Mat 26:41 (NIV) "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 8, 2017

[video]https://youtu.be/KjUYw6Vg0bQ[/video]

[h=1]Why I'm Not a Calvinist: Seven Minute Seminary[/h]

Roughsoul1991 · Feb 8, 2017

[video]https://youtu.be/6sG08YuAZEU[/video]

[h=1]Why a Wesleyan Approach to Theology: Seven Minute Seminary[/h]

Ariel82 · Feb 8, 2017

It's a 2 hour debate, but I found it interesting.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yEU2IuC1d24

AllenW · Feb 8, 2017

PeterJens said:

Isn't that against the ToS to question someone's faith in Jesus Christ?
So that would limit if not completely eliminate what one could say to another.
So one person could be saying things that would cause others to think that person is not saved and be unable to say anything.
Then the first person goes on thinking he is correct because no one challenges him.
So your statement above, does anyone not want to answer any questions, then you praise the Lord as though what you are saying is correct.
The truth is you'll never know the truth on these forums because people aren't allowed to say what needs to be said.

Ariel82 · Feb 8, 2017

Allen don't stir the pot. EG and Peterjen have a shaky truce.

I praise God for EG maturity to be silent and pray that the endless cycle stops.

If you don't know what happened in the past year...read back over their exchanges.

In this case silence is a blessing from God.

People say more than what needs to be said.

Saying it once is enough.

after months of fighting...silence is blessed.

AllenW · Feb 8, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Allen don't stir the pot. EG and Peterjen have a shaky truce.

I praise God for EG maturity to be silent and pray that the endless cycle stops.

If you don't know what happened in the past year...read back over their exchanges.

In this case silence is a blessing from God.

People say more than what needs to be said.

Saying it once is enough.

after months of fighting...silence is blessed.

okay, sorry

Once saved, always saved. Chosen elect of God?

Banned

Banned

Junior Member

Junior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

eternally-gratefull

Guest

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Junior Member

Banned

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

Senior Member