Not By Works

PeterJens · Feb 9, 2017

dc - The point I am making is very simple.

Saying they are void of truth or a foundation is meaningless.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14

Now if one holds no believer can actually walk righteously, in fulfillment of the law you
are then contradicting this very scripture.

If you cannot answer this simple point, because what I am saying is true, you are
just denying your own position.

Christians hold to real truth, logical arguments, worked through positions. You are not
doing this so I have to conclude truth does not matter to you, only "faith".

I have proved my point that you do not care, at all, which fits with your lawless moral
outlook. But lawlessness is part of rebellion against God and a denial of the cross.

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

blue_ladybug said:

Good....laughter is GOOD MEDICINE hahah

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2017

mailmandan said:

I forgot about swordsman. Thanks, I know one site I will not visit.

PeterJens · Feb 9, 2017

What happens as a believer when you find you are wrong?

You have a choice either change or deny everything.
In Christ, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

We are commited to following the truth, no matter how painful
or difficult it is. This is the meaning of carrying the cross.

It often means loosing our lives now, to gain our lives in eternity.
So who will you follow Christ or your own understanding?

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

People who truly repent, who truly have faith in God. They want saved, they chose of their own free will to say yes God, I want to be changed, I want to become more like you.

What a glorious promise of God. I WILL CHANGE YOU.

Jesus stands at the door. He does not bang it in and force his way into our lives, He wants us of our own free will to say yes Lord, I want you to come in. I want you to change me, I know it will be hard. I am a person who loves all these things But I want you to change me in-spite of that, Because I see those things are not good for me, So lord, please help me, even what I lack faith.

Don't be mocking God, and tell them he can change them, then in the next breath tell them he may not be able to change them, they have to help. Talk about giving a person false hope. the first sign of problem that person faces, he will run. why? Because they already admitted to God they can't do it. Now they are told they must depend on self.

Instead. give them this hope. a promise from God himself

1. He who begun a good work in you WILL COMPLETE IT until the day of Christ.

2. By one sacrifice, He HAS PERFECTED FOR EVER those who CONTINUES TO SANCTIFY.

God does not give up. and he does not fail. let every babe in christ know this, DO not give them false hope.

AMEN and if I remember right...the words FOR EVER is after perfected on point 2

New American Standard Bible
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

King James Bible
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

gb9 · Feb 9, 2017

PeterJens said:

dc - The point I am making is very simple.

Saying they are void of truth or a foundation is meaningless.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14

Now if one holds no believer can actually walk righteously, in fulfillment of the law you
are then contradicting this very scripture.

If you cannot answer this simple point, because what I am saying is true, you are
just denying your own position.

Christians hold to real truth, logical arguments, worked through positions. You are not
doing this so I have to conclude truth does not matter to you, only "faith".

I have proved my point that you do not care, at all, which fits with your lawless moral
outlook. But lawlessness is part of rebellion against God and a denial of the cross.

if, if if, then you say you draw your own conclusions. setting up points that do not exist and drawing conclusions from then. spending too much time in your own head, maybe? maybe?

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

PeterJens said:

You made no logical point and or proved nothing......other than you have missed almost every point made....

THE JUST shall LIVE BY FAITH and the bolded above is bogus.......I am serious....are you seriously that blind to plain English....what part of the following is so hard for you to understand...

SAVED by FAITH void of ANY WORKS
WORKS and or fruit is the result of the SALVATION that one already possesses by faith
YOU cannot bear fruit unless you are ALREADY ALIVE IN THE VINE<---saved and born again of INCORRUPTABLE SEED

Not only does the word of God contradict you, creation itself contradicts you..........

I bet your favorite line from a Led Zeppelin song was "Ramble On"

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

CARM is....never heard of it and I concur.......has enough of the Campbellite rigmarole already.......

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2017

dcontroversal said:

sadly, it seems forever is a word many do not comprehend.. or maybe they do not want to..

PeterJens · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

This is very interesting up to the point "Don't be mocking God"

If you know the difference between guidance in achieving something and doing it yourself,
you know why guidance produces results.

It is wrong to say Jesus does not expect us to follow, to do things, to obey.
These are the things He says is the way to heaven, to be friends with Him, to
express our love of Him.

The difference is we have been changed within, we are new creations, it is
no longer ourselves but the Holy Spirit within us, and His love flowing out of us.

But this is labelled as self, when actually it is Christ at work in us.
And what is actually the problem? It is we who are doing the actions, we just
need to know is it "self" or "God". Jesus answers this by saying pray in private,
and it is God, pray in public, it is self.

But if we have truly repented and bowed our wills to Christ to walk in obedience
the rest will follow. It has always been about a spiritual change and reality within.
Pursuing what this change is and how it is brought about is the foundation of everything.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You made no logical point and or proved nothing......other than you have missed almost every point made....

THE JUST shall LIVE BY FAITH and the bolded above is bogus.......I am serious....are you seriously that blind to plain English....what part of the following is so hard for you to understand...

SAVED by FAITH void of ANY WORKS
WORKS and or fruit is the result of the SALVATION that one already possesses by faith
YOU cannot bear fruit unless you are ALREADY ALIVE IN THE VINE<---saved and born again of INCORRUPTABLE SEED

Not only does the word of God contradict you, creation itself contradicts you..........

I bet your favorite line from a Led Zeppelin song was "Ramble On"

now I will have that song in my head all day..

lol

Grandpa · Feb 9, 2017

PeterJens said:

No Christian can walk righteously according to the law by their own understanding and strength.

No Christian can look to the law and try to fulfill it by what they do.

What a Christian can do is abide in Christ. Trust that He will grow the fruit in their lives.

And guess what one of the fruit of the Spirit is? Love.

Isn't that interesting? Can't grow the fruit of the Spirit just because you will it. And if you think it is your love that fulfills the law then you have missed the mark.

2 Corinthians 3:5 [FONT=&quot]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Seems there are a bunch of words rejected.....eternal, for ever, everlasting, saved, justified, sanctified, sealed etc..........

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2017

"Jesus does not expect us to follow"

I am baffled by this statement.

First by the fact that the ONLY people I ever hear make this statement are people who are trying to push works salvation, and denying true faith in God. (someone who preaches or follows grace would never even make the statement, Because it would never cross their minds that any of their brothers and sisters would even think this, let alone, need to go preach it)

And second, WOuld like to know. how a person who repented truly, and understands fully that he wants God to..

number 1. Save his eternal soul from condemnation (also knows as eternal life, or salvation)

Number 2, Wants God to change him from the inside out, to make him more like God,,

would ever think or even conclude that God does not want expect us to follow

It is as I said to another poster. If you KNEW what it was to be in Christ, You would not make such outlandish statments, because they woudl make no sens to you.

PeterJens · Feb 9, 2017

dcontroversal said:

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14

Is the above quote true?
If by loving your neighbor as yourself you have fulfilled the law of Christ, ie
you are walking righteously?

Now I know your belief foundations. But they link equally to other ideas that
show it is not true. Ofcourse you can just repeat the same words but the
meaning of words is there connections with others ideas which either confirm
or deny it.

mailmandan · Feb 9, 2017

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

WHEN talking to him...somehow OH HOW I LOVE JEEE-ZUS did not seem appropriate.......

I remember a church camp when I was a kid.......they had the normal "altar call" after the evening message.....and about 575 stanzas of Oh How I love Jesus or maybe Just As I AM.......

Anybody want to be saved raise your hands........................!

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

You know....the devil sows confusion, his minions sow confusion.......confusion keeps one spinning his wheels in a round and round we go circle of deception.......

It is a SIMPLE thing to just save one who believes....the simplicity that is found in Christ is overlooked, rejected and twisted into a mess of confusion by the "workers for"........

dcontroversal · Feb 9, 2017

PeterJens said:

a. It is impossible to love your neighbor 'biblically" without being SAVED

LOVE is a SPIRITUAL GIFT PAL....NOT EARNED but GIVEN to one who possesses SALVATION by faith

b. AGAIN you equate salvation down to a work..........WORKS DO NOT SAVE.....FAITH SAVES

eternally-gratefull · Feb 9, 2017

Love

Gal 3: 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Matt 22:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

This is how we seek after the things of the spirit. To fulfill the law in areas of our life. To walk in sanctification (we love because he first loved us)

Not how one gets saved, Keeps their salvation or maintains it.

We can not obey the first 1 24/7, Anyone who thinks they can are as decieved as the pharisees who tried to tell christ they obeyed all the law.

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