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M
It was basically a reading from Ch 100 of the Kebra Nagast:
And there were certain angels with whom God was wroth—now He, the Knower of the heart knew them—and they reviled ADAM, saying, "Since God hath shown love to him He hath set us to minister unto him, and the beasts and creeping things, and the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and all fruits, and the trees of the field, and the heavens and the earth also; and He hath appointed the heavens to give him rain, and the earth to give him fruits. And the sun and the moon also hath He given him, the sun to give him light by day and the moon to give him light in the night season. He hath fashioned him with His fingers, and He hath created him in His own image, and He hath kissed him and breathed upon him the spirit of life; and He saith unto him, 'My son, My firstborn, My beloved.' And He hath set him in a garden to eat and enjoy himself without sickness or suffering, and without toil or labour, but He hath commanded him not to eat from one tree. And being given all these things by God, ADAM hath transgressed and eaten of that tree, and he hath become hated and rejected, and God hath driven him out of the Garden, and from that time ADAM hath abandoned his hope, for he hath transgressed the commandment of his Creator." And God answered the angels who reviled ADAM in this wise, and He said unto them, "Why do ye revile ADAM in this wise? For he is flesh, and blood, and p. 185 ashes and dust." And the angels answered and said unto Him, "May we declare before Thee the sin of ADAM?" And God said unto them, "Declare ye [his sin], and I will hearken unto you, and I Myself will answer you in respect of ADAM My servant." For God had worked on behalf of ADAM. And God said, "I created him out of the dust, and I will not cast away that which I have fashioned. I brought him forth out of non-existence, and I will not make My handiwork a laughingstock for his enemies." And those angels said, "Praise be unto Thee, O Lord. For Thou, the Knower of hearts, knowest that we have reviled ADAM because he hath transgressed Thy commandment that he was not to eat of one tree after Thou hadst made him lord over everything which Thou hast created, and hadst set him over every work of Thy hands. And if Thou hadst not told him, and if Thou hadst not commanded him not to eat of one tree there would have been no offence [on his part]; and if he had eaten because of a lack of food there would have been no offence [on his part]. But Thy word made him to know, and Thou didst say, 'As surely as thou eatest of this tree thou shalt die.'1 And he, after hearing this, made bold and ate. Thou didst not let him lack sweet fruits to eat from the Garden, and Thou didst not let him lack one to comfort him and a companion like unto himself. And these things we say and make known unto Thee, and we have revealed unto Thee how he hath transgressed Thy commandment."
And the Merciful One and the Lover of mercy answered them on behalf of ADAM, and said unto them, "You have I created out of fire and air with the one intent [that ye should] praise [Me]. Him have I created of twice as many elements as you—of dust and water, and of wind and fire; and he became [a being] of flesh and blood. And in him are ten thoughts (or, p. 186 intentions), five good, and five bad. And if his heart inciteth him to good, he walketh with good intent; and if the Devil seduceth him, he walketh with him on an evil path. As for you, ye have no other object in your minds but praise of Me, with the exception of that arrogant one who produced evil, and became an evil being, and was driven forth from your assembly. And now, why do ye magnify yourselves over ADAM? If ye were as he is, and I had created you of water and dust, ye would have been flesh and blood, and ye would have transgressed My commandment more than he hath done, and denied My word." And the angels said unto Him, "Praise be unto Thee, O Lord! Far be it from us! We will not transgress Thy commandment, and we will not oppose Thy word; for we are spiritual beings for life, and he is a creature of dust [doomed] to folly. And now try us well, and put us to the test so that Thou mayest know whether we are able to keep Thy word."
And when they had vaunted themselves in this manner God, the Lover of men, said unto them, "If now ye go astray so far as this in transgressing My word, the wrong will be upon your own heads, [for] JAHANNAM (or, hell), and fire, and sulphur, and fervent heat, and whirlwind shall be your habitation until the Great Day: ye shall be kept in chains which can neither be loosened nor broken for ever. But if ye keep truly My word, and ye do My commandment, ye shall sit upon My right hand and upon My left. For everyone who hath conquered is mighty, and he who is conquered shall be overpowered. Now SATAN hath no power whatsoever, for he hath only what he maketh to germinate in the mind; and he cannot grasp firmly, and he cannot perform anything, and he cannot beat, and he cannot drag, and he cannot seize, and he cannot fight; he can only make thoughts to germinate silently in the mind. And him who is caught by the evil mind he prepareth for p. 187 destruction; and if [a man] hath conquered the evil mind he findeth grace and hath a reward which is everlasting. And to you, according to what ye wish, there shall be upon you the mind of a man and the body of a man. But take good heed to yourselves that ye transgress not My word and break not My commandment; and defile not ye yourselves with eating, or drinking, or fornication, or with any other thing whatsoever; and transgress ye not My word."
And straightway there were given unto them with His word flesh, and blood, and a heart of the children of men. And they were content to leave the height of heaven, and they came down to earth, to the folly of the dancing of the children of CAIN with all their work of the artisan, which they had made in the folly of their fornication, and to their singings, which they accompanied with the tambourine, and the flutes, and the pipes, and much shouting, and loud cries of joy and noisy songs. And their daughters were there, and they enjoyed the orgies without shame, for they scented themselves for the men who pleased them, and they lost the balance in their minds. And the men did not restrain themselves for a moment, but they took to wife from among the women those whom they had chosen, and committed sin with them. For God hath no resting-place in the hearts of the arrogant and those who revile, but He abideth in the hearts of the humble and those who are sincere. And He spake in the Gospel, saying, "Woe be unto those who make themselves righteous, and despise their neighbours."1 And again He saith, "God loveth the humble, and He holdeth lightly those who magnify themselves."
And straightway God was wroth with them, and He bound them in the terror of SHEÔL until the day of redemption, as the Apostle saith, "He treated His p. 188 angels with severity. He spared them not, but made them to dwell in a state of judgement, and they were fettered until the Great Day."1 The word of God conquered, Who had fashioned ADAM in His likeness (or, form), and those who had reviled and made a laughingstock of ADAM were conquered. And the daughters of CAIN with whom the angels had companied conceived, but they were unable to bring forth their children, and they died. And of the children who were in their wombs some died, and some came forth; having split open the bellies of their mothers they came forth by their navels. And when they were grown up and reached man's estate they became giants, whose height reached unto the clouds; and for their sakes and the sakes of sinners the wrath of God became quiet, and He said, "My spirit shall only rest on them for one hundred and twenty years, and I will destroy them with the waters of the Flood,"2 them and all sinners who have not believed the word of God. And to those who believed the word of their fathers, and did His Will, no injury came from the waters of the Flood, but He delivered them, saying, "If thou believest My word thou canst save thyself from the Flood." And NOAH said, "O Lord, I believe Thy word, make me to know by what means I can be saved." And God said unto him, "Thou canst be saved from the water by wood." And NOAH said, "How, O Lord?" And God said unto him, "Make thyself a four-sided ark, and build it with the work of the carpenter, and make for it three storeys inside, and go into it with all thy house."3 And NOAH believed the word of God, and made [the ark], and was saved.
And there were certain angels with whom God was wroth—now He, the Knower of the heart knew them—and they reviled ADAM, saying, "Since God hath shown love to him He hath set us to minister unto him, and the beasts and creeping things, and the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and all fruits, and the trees of the field, and the heavens and the earth also; and He hath appointed the heavens to give him rain, and the earth to give him fruits. And the sun and the moon also hath He given him, the sun to give him light by day and the moon to give him light in the night season. He hath fashioned him with His fingers, and He hath created him in His own image, and He hath kissed him and breathed upon him the spirit of life; and He saith unto him, 'My son, My firstborn, My beloved.' And He hath set him in a garden to eat and enjoy himself without sickness or suffering, and without toil or labour, but He hath commanded him not to eat from one tree. And being given all these things by God, ADAM hath transgressed and eaten of that tree, and he hath become hated and rejected, and God hath driven him out of the Garden, and from that time ADAM hath abandoned his hope, for he hath transgressed the commandment of his Creator." And God answered the angels who reviled ADAM in this wise, and He said unto them, "Why do ye revile ADAM in this wise? For he is flesh, and blood, and p. 185 ashes and dust." And the angels answered and said unto Him, "May we declare before Thee the sin of ADAM?" And God said unto them, "Declare ye [his sin], and I will hearken unto you, and I Myself will answer you in respect of ADAM My servant." For God had worked on behalf of ADAM. And God said, "I created him out of the dust, and I will not cast away that which I have fashioned. I brought him forth out of non-existence, and I will not make My handiwork a laughingstock for his enemies." And those angels said, "Praise be unto Thee, O Lord. For Thou, the Knower of hearts, knowest that we have reviled ADAM because he hath transgressed Thy commandment that he was not to eat of one tree after Thou hadst made him lord over everything which Thou hast created, and hadst set him over every work of Thy hands. And if Thou hadst not told him, and if Thou hadst not commanded him not to eat of one tree there would have been no offence [on his part]; and if he had eaten because of a lack of food there would have been no offence [on his part]. But Thy word made him to know, and Thou didst say, 'As surely as thou eatest of this tree thou shalt die.'1 And he, after hearing this, made bold and ate. Thou didst not let him lack sweet fruits to eat from the Garden, and Thou didst not let him lack one to comfort him and a companion like unto himself. And these things we say and make known unto Thee, and we have revealed unto Thee how he hath transgressed Thy commandment."
And the Merciful One and the Lover of mercy answered them on behalf of ADAM, and said unto them, "You have I created out of fire and air with the one intent [that ye should] praise [Me]. Him have I created of twice as many elements as you—of dust and water, and of wind and fire; and he became [a being] of flesh and blood. And in him are ten thoughts (or, p. 186 intentions), five good, and five bad. And if his heart inciteth him to good, he walketh with good intent; and if the Devil seduceth him, he walketh with him on an evil path. As for you, ye have no other object in your minds but praise of Me, with the exception of that arrogant one who produced evil, and became an evil being, and was driven forth from your assembly. And now, why do ye magnify yourselves over ADAM? If ye were as he is, and I had created you of water and dust, ye would have been flesh and blood, and ye would have transgressed My commandment more than he hath done, and denied My word." And the angels said unto Him, "Praise be unto Thee, O Lord! Far be it from us! We will not transgress Thy commandment, and we will not oppose Thy word; for we are spiritual beings for life, and he is a creature of dust [doomed] to folly. And now try us well, and put us to the test so that Thou mayest know whether we are able to keep Thy word."
And when they had vaunted themselves in this manner God, the Lover of men, said unto them, "If now ye go astray so far as this in transgressing My word, the wrong will be upon your own heads, [for] JAHANNAM (or, hell), and fire, and sulphur, and fervent heat, and whirlwind shall be your habitation until the Great Day: ye shall be kept in chains which can neither be loosened nor broken for ever. But if ye keep truly My word, and ye do My commandment, ye shall sit upon My right hand and upon My left. For everyone who hath conquered is mighty, and he who is conquered shall be overpowered. Now SATAN hath no power whatsoever, for he hath only what he maketh to germinate in the mind; and he cannot grasp firmly, and he cannot perform anything, and he cannot beat, and he cannot drag, and he cannot seize, and he cannot fight; he can only make thoughts to germinate silently in the mind. And him who is caught by the evil mind he prepareth for p. 187 destruction; and if [a man] hath conquered the evil mind he findeth grace and hath a reward which is everlasting. And to you, according to what ye wish, there shall be upon you the mind of a man and the body of a man. But take good heed to yourselves that ye transgress not My word and break not My commandment; and defile not ye yourselves with eating, or drinking, or fornication, or with any other thing whatsoever; and transgress ye not My word."
And straightway there were given unto them with His word flesh, and blood, and a heart of the children of men. And they were content to leave the height of heaven, and they came down to earth, to the folly of the dancing of the children of CAIN with all their work of the artisan, which they had made in the folly of their fornication, and to their singings, which they accompanied with the tambourine, and the flutes, and the pipes, and much shouting, and loud cries of joy and noisy songs. And their daughters were there, and they enjoyed the orgies without shame, for they scented themselves for the men who pleased them, and they lost the balance in their minds. And the men did not restrain themselves for a moment, but they took to wife from among the women those whom they had chosen, and committed sin with them. For God hath no resting-place in the hearts of the arrogant and those who revile, but He abideth in the hearts of the humble and those who are sincere. And He spake in the Gospel, saying, "Woe be unto those who make themselves righteous, and despise their neighbours."1 And again He saith, "God loveth the humble, and He holdeth lightly those who magnify themselves."
And straightway God was wroth with them, and He bound them in the terror of SHEÔL until the day of redemption, as the Apostle saith, "He treated His p. 188 angels with severity. He spared them not, but made them to dwell in a state of judgement, and they were fettered until the Great Day."1 The word of God conquered, Who had fashioned ADAM in His likeness (or, form), and those who had reviled and made a laughingstock of ADAM were conquered. And the daughters of CAIN with whom the angels had companied conceived, but they were unable to bring forth their children, and they died. And of the children who were in their wombs some died, and some came forth; having split open the bellies of their mothers they came forth by their navels. And when they were grown up and reached man's estate they became giants, whose height reached unto the clouds; and for their sakes and the sakes of sinners the wrath of God became quiet, and He said, "My spirit shall only rest on them for one hundred and twenty years, and I will destroy them with the waters of the Flood,"2 them and all sinners who have not believed the word of God. And to those who believed the word of their fathers, and did His Will, no injury came from the waters of the Flood, but He delivered them, saying, "If thou believest My word thou canst save thyself from the Flood." And NOAH said, "O Lord, I believe Thy word, make me to know by what means I can be saved." And God said unto him, "Thou canst be saved from the water by wood." And NOAH said, "How, O Lord?" And God said unto him, "Make thyself a four-sided ark, and build it with the work of the carpenter, and make for it three storeys inside, and go into it with all thy house."3 And NOAH believed the word of God, and made [the ark], and was saved.
P
there's a theory that I learend about couple years ago, and to me, it makes sense.
Some people say, that when the Bible says, "all the earth," it's referring to just the mesopotamian region, because that was pretty much the only area that had been populated at that time. I forgot what my teacher said the literal translation was, but it was something to that effect. Plus, like... five years ago they were doing some digging in the region and found a flood layer in the earth, they went around the region getting more samples form the earth, and they were able to find flood layers at over 100 locations in the mesopotamia region.
it's an interesting theory, but I think it makes a lot of sense...
Some people say, that when the Bible says, "all the earth," it's referring to just the mesopotamian region, because that was pretty much the only area that had been populated at that time. I forgot what my teacher said the literal translation was, but it was something to that effect. Plus, like... five years ago they were doing some digging in the region and found a flood layer in the earth, they went around the region getting more samples form the earth, and they were able to find flood layers at over 100 locations in the mesopotamia region.
it's an interesting theory, but I think it makes a lot of sense...
Yeah, that may be true, but they are only a small part of all animals etc... so that hardly counts for anything really. all you have to do is look at the human population of the world..even just in the last couple of hundred years. Animals would be fine in repopulating if we did not keep killing them and destroying their habitat.
Concerning the Ark and the animals that went in, you don't need thousands upon thousands.. for k9's you just need 1 male dog and one female and so on and so on. for more detail on that check Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics where you will find experts talking on the subject using the exact same evidence as those who believe evolution.. just from a biblical perspective.
Anyhow, I believe the Ark to be true I believe creation to be true and I believe the bible as truth, you cannot observe creation in a test tube, or in a lab.
Phil
Concerning the Ark and the animals that went in, you don't need thousands upon thousands.. for k9's you just need 1 male dog and one female and so on and so on. for more detail on that check Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics where you will find experts talking on the subject using the exact same evidence as those who believe evolution.. just from a biblical perspective.
Anyhow, I believe the Ark to be true I believe creation to be true and I believe the bible as truth, you cannot observe creation in a test tube, or in a lab.
Phil
Hi its not a theory they have found flood layers in Mesopotamia, however the depths involved and the regions would not construct real devestation globally, so in that sense this was just a localised flood or floodings pretty much the same as we had in the UK last year.
According to Creationist scientists, there is copius amounts of evidence for an 'all world' flood Take a look at: Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics or Creation-Research-Main-Page
According to Creationist scientists, there is copius amounts of evidence for an 'all world' flood Take a look at: Answers in Genesis - Creation, Evolution, Christian Apologetics or Creation-Research-Main-Page
M
I totally agree with Phil. You really should visit www.answersingenesis.org! It's a great site!
The human population has exploded so rapidly within the last few centuries primarily because of the advent of modern technology, particularly in regards to antibiotics. Prior to that the rise of agriculture and animal domestication played the leading role in increasing human populations.
Wow, that's quite a bit of speciation to pack into a few thousand years.
Lurker
Wow, that's quite a bit of speciation to pack into a few thousand years.
Lurker
There is also direct contradiction between the species of mega-fauna (super sized animals and plants and insects etc) that science has shown us to exist, and being able to fit all these super sized animals into the ark. That all the animals to go into the ark were smallish just doesn't agree with what science tells us.
You are right there is a good reason why the population has exploded, but as we can see t does not take long 
remember God is in control of everything....
well, Just check what the experts have to say about ''''speciation'''' packed into thousands of years..they have just the same qualifications as secular scientists. I think I gave the links above.
in Love
Phil
remember God is in control of everything....well, Just check what the experts have to say about ''''speciation'''' packed into thousands of years..they have just the same qualifications as secular scientists. I think I gave the links above.
in Love
Phil
Not really sure about that, wish I was a scientist. But regarding even dinasaurs, appr 95% where no bigger than a sheep.
Just remember how big are baby elephants and Giraffes (think these are the biggest we have today)? they are not very big. anyhow, the experts have put arguments forward for these things.
all can be read at 'answers in Genesis' and 'creation research'
Personally, I believe God achieved what He said He would do. no matter what science says or thinks...
In Love
Phil
W
I just visited the Creation Museum here in Texas that shows how the flood did cover the whole earth. It has sections of the layers that (at one time) showed a total flood flow of the earth and how it broke apart eventually, but that one flood was the only thing that could have caused it. If you were to put the sections back together, it was like putting a puzzle back together therefore proving that NOT just Noah's area flooded as some like to say.
Well, Havent got the time at moment to look it up, but we can assume that it was not like you see in sunday school (unfortunetly these pictures stick in our head.
If you comapre a ship today with the same dimensions, how many animals could you fit in, and bare in mind you don't need every species just a pair of every kind, two dogs, 2 snakes, 2 goats., of course this is only land animals.
Now think how evan a small ferry, of a beam of 15 meters and a length of maybe 50-60 will carry, 100-200 cars and 30 40 artics (app) and that is just the 2 cargo decks and that is only a small ferry. they usually have2 or 3 decks above that for accommodation and restaurants etc.. so it can be easily seen how the animals could fit in and 8 humans. remember that is a small ferry.
as of how it was built and shape we are not to sure... we do know the dimensions but really thats about it... and one thing to remember it was God's plan not mans.. when God says He will do something He will do it.
In Love
Phil
If you comapre a ship today with the same dimensions, how many animals could you fit in, and bare in mind you don't need every species just a pair of every kind, two dogs, 2 snakes, 2 goats., of course this is only land animals.
Now think how evan a small ferry, of a beam of 15 meters and a length of maybe 50-60 will carry, 100-200 cars and 30 40 artics (app) and that is just the 2 cargo decks and that is only a small ferry. they usually have2 or 3 decks above that for accommodation and restaurants etc.. so it can be easily seen how the animals could fit in and 8 humans. remember that is a small ferry.
as of how it was built and shape we are not to sure... we do know the dimensions but really thats about it... and one thing to remember it was God's plan not mans.. when God says He will do something He will do it.
In Love
Phil