Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

The trouble with such changes is they work both ways.
Because a small change can effect the whole meaning you have to weigh each
version and see which makes more sense.

Once you are convinced by one framework it is always hard to accept another
without a big psychological jump, which can be hard.

I suggest, if you are able to, investigate both and then test it with scripture.
You will often find your initial assumptions were wrong and a different mixture is
often the heart of God, which neither party saw. It leads us often to humbleness,
and wonder at the King we follow and to see His ways are more wonderful than ours.

Noooooo, actually I have found that my first premonition is the Spirit prompting me and when I second guess......it never works out right..........

The bible teaches

faith and faith alone saves eternally

works and fruit are the result of genuine faith and will come after growth and maturity

1 (one) work or piece of fruit is sufficient to recognize what type of tree it is

Creation backs my assessment as well as scripture <----Jesus' statement about a cup of cold water in his name!

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Matthew 12:30-37 “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Nice scripture.........and.........?

 

[bravethea]

Raca means ungodly anger. It means you wish someone to hell. Why would you not pray for Mercy for anyone if you truly received Mercy from God in the first place? That person would be self- condemned. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[MadebyHim]

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:31-35


And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. John 3:19-22.

 

[MadebyHim]

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds(works) should be reproved.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds(works) may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

HAHAHAHHA you take the proverbial cake man....

Call me blind and deaf and then say God bless you......makes me think of JAMES....bitter and sweet water from the same source.......

You do understand that LOVE and TRUTH go hand in hand......right?

lol.. Your blind and dead. He is trying to understand how you believe, Yet after months and months, he still does not get it..

He is fooling no one but himself.

 

[Seohce]

Blah blah blah blah......none of that has to do with acquiring eternal life, salvation, justification (rendered innocent) and the sanctification (positionally) in Christ dia faith......SEALED with the spirit of PROMISE and born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....

It is sad to know that YOUR SEED can be corrupted....Your JESUS must be weak.....mine is beyond the ability to be corrupted...regardless....!

Again,why do you think our Lord Jesus would come back to bring salvation if the believers ALREADY POSSESS IT?

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING FOR HIM.

Romans 8:23-25 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly AS WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But hope that is seen is NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we DO NOT YET HAVE, we WAIT for it PATIENTLY.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we DO NOT SEE.

Philippians 3:12-16,20 NOT that I have ALREADY OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY been made PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

NOW, DO YOU STILL INTEND TO BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT to prove yourself right? Too much HYPOCRISY threw the enemy out of heaven. Please think it over coz I know that you have faith that can save you if you combine it with good works( God’s works in us) for there’s nothing good we can do without God.

Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

 

[PeterJens]

Noooooo, actually I have found that my first premonition is the Spirit prompting me and when I second guess......it never works out right..........
The bible teaches
faith and faith alone saves eternally
works and fruit are the result of genuine faith and will come after growth and maturity
1 (one) work or piece of fruit is sufficient to recognize what type of tree it ishi
Creation backs my assessment as well as scripture <----Jesus' statement about a cup of cold water in his name!

This response demonstrates you have come to a conclusion and that is it.
But truth and Jesus are never that simple or straightforward.

It is why we may well believe exactly the same things but express them differently
and you will end up being judgemental without realising one is picking up on the
wrong point.

Those who have met Christ, know everything is honour to our King.
All the concern people are expressing, if people do not know repentance, confession
and trusting in the cross, everything gets distorted.

Now downplaying the meeting of Christ, emphasising acceptance over repentance,
downplaying conscience, conviction and righteousness, sounds exactly like easy
believism.

So everyone gets concerned and when we declare the fundamentals of the faith
and are called evil etc. then something is very wrong.

The Holy Spirit does not work like this, ever. We are a body, with the same
foundation. So why the disputes?

 

[dcontroversal]

Again,why do you think our Lord Jesus would come back to bring salvation if the believers ALREADY POSSESS IT?

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING FOR HIM.

Romans 8:23-25 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly AS WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But hope that is seen is NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we DO NOT YET HAVE, we WAIT for it PATIENTLY.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we DO NOT SEE.

Philippians 3:12-16,20 NOT that I have ALREADY OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY been made PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

NOW, DO YOU STILL INTEND TO BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT to prove yourself right? Too much HYPOCRISY threw the enemy out of heaven. Please think it over coz I know that you have faith that can save you if you combine it with good works( God’s works in us) for there’s nothing good we can do without God.

Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

Keep talking....salvation is a current possession....NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD and WE HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF INCORRUPTABLE SEED......you should study more......serious!

HE THAT BELIEVES ON THE SON IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE....<--you do understand IS HAVING right? PRESENT TENSE!

 

[dcontroversal]

This response demonstrates you have come to a conclusion and that is it.
But truth and Jesus are never that simple or straightforward.

It is why we may well believe exactly the same things but express them differently
and you will end up being judgemental without realising one is picking up on the
wrong point.

Those who have met Christ, know everything is honour to our King.
All the concern people are expressing, if people do not know repentance, confession
and trusting in the cross, everything gets distorted.

Now downplaying the meeting of Christ, emphasising acceptance over repentance,
downplaying conscience, conviction and righteousness, sounds exactly like easy
believism.

So everyone gets concerned and when we declare the fundamentals of the faith
and are called evil etc. then something is very wrong.

The Holy Spirit does not work like this, ever. We are a body, with the same
foundation. So why the disputes?

No, actually it is that simple and straightforward......BE NOT REMOVED FROM THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS FOUND IN CHRIST!.....

 

[Seohce]

Blah blah blah blah......none of that has to do with acquiring eternal life, salvation, justification (rendered innocent) and the sanctification (positionally) in Christ dia faith......SEALED with the spirit of PROMISE and born of INCORRUPTABLE SEED....

It is sad to know that YOUR SEED can be corrupted....Your JESUS must be weak.....mine is beyond the ability to be corrupted...regardless....!

Again,why do you think our Lord Jesus would come back to bring salvation if the believers ALREADY POSSESS IT?

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING FOR HIM.

Romans 8:23-25 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly AS WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But hope that is seen is NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we DO NOT YET HAVE, we WAIT for it PATIENTLY.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we DO NOT SEE.

Philippians 3:12-16,20 NOT that I have ALREADY OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY been made PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

NOW, DO YOU STILL INTEND TO BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT to prove yourself right? Too much HYPOCRISY threw the enemy out of heaven. Please think it over coz I know that you have faith that can save you if you combine it with good works( God’s works in us) for there’s nothing good we can do without God.

Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Keep talking....salvation is a current possession....NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD and WE HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN OF INCORRUPTABLE SEED......you should study more......serious!

HE THAT BELIEVES ON THE SON IS HAVING EVERLASTING LIFE....<--you do understand IS HAVING right? PRESENT TENSE!

Will add...the spirit is born again and saved in Christ, but the redemption of the body has yet to take place.......the sealing of the SPIRIT is the prepayment of our eternal inheritance.....the verbiage and verb tense make is obvious that right now we are saved, born again and possessing salvation......

 

[dcontroversal]

Again,why do you think our Lord Jesus would come back to bring salvation if the believers ALREADY POSSESS IT?

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING FOR HIM.

Romans 8:23-25 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly AS WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we were SAVED. But hope that is seen is NO HOPE AT ALL. Who hopes for what he ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we DO NOT YET HAVE, we WAIT for it PATIENTLY.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we HOPE for and certain of what we DO NOT SEE.

Philippians 3:12-16,20 NOT that I have ALREADY OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY been made PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have already attained. But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Peter 1:9 for you are RECEIVING the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

NOW, DO YOU STILL INTEND TO BLASPHEME AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT to prove yourself right? Too much HYPOCRISY threw the enemy out of heaven. Please think it over coz I know that you have faith that can save you if you combine it with good works( God’s works in us) for there’s nothing good we can do without God.

Micah 6:8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

the word perfect = complete...HAS PAUL received his glorified body yet.....NO...he already possessed salvation of the SOUL, having been born again of incorruptible seed....but the redemption of the body has not yet taken place....and HOPE in the bible is the confident expectation of something GUARANTEED in Christ.....your works based salvation will not earn you heaven....Paul condemns it as a false gospel that is double cursed with NO POWER TO SAVE!

 

[PeterJens]

No, actually it is that simple and straightforward......BE NOT REMOVED FROM THE SIMPLICITY THAT IS FOUND IN CHRIST!.....

A small point. The bible is a big book. It all has a reason.
If you start listing the issues and concepts involved, and how easily a small
change creates a very different feel or reality.

That is not simply at all.

 

[JIMBO43]

i HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING HERE but this thread is like jab jab jab. lol chuckle chuckle

I think some not mention no names has

Come to the conlusion that he thinks this is all funny

 

[dcontroversal]

i HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING HERE but this thread is like jab jab jab. lol chuckle chuckle

I think some not mention no names has

Come to the conlusion that he thinks this is all funny

The banter does not bother me.....the truth is the truth......and the truth has set me free from the WORKERS FOR and their false doctrine......!

 

[PeterJens]

There is something surprising to me.
I met Christ properly back in 1978. It changed my life, my thought, my focus.

This thread and many others desire to redefine the very foundations of this experience.
For me this is impossible because the truths there are too fundamental to both life
and Christ.

Now the reason the world is lost is because of sin and a lack of love.
But some weird ex-legalists want to say the world is lost because of a distorted
view of faith. Only blind and deaf teachers who cannot face their version of faith
failed in their lives and they cannot give up, so they have made a new faith without
the need for real righteousness, is their cop out excuse.

But this is just legalism without law, and still with no reality.

 

[MadebyHim]

[h=1]Paul and the Law[/h]

An adder is hated not for the euill it hath done but for the poyson that is in it (Pathway to the Scriptures).We must first be euill ere we do euil, and good before we do good (Pathway to the Scriptures).The deede is good because of the man and not the man because of his deede (Prologue to Genesis).[SUP]1[/SUP]​

IntroductionThe quotes above are from William Tyndale, the greatest of the reformers. Tyndale understood the purpose of the Mosaic Law, the nature of man, and Paul’s doctrine of sin and righteousness. His statements revealed the Biblical truth:

WE ARE SINNERS NOT BECAUSE WE BREAK THE LAW;
WE BREAK THE LAW BECAUSE WE ARE SINNERS.​

We sin because we have a nature that wants to sin, to rebel against God. The only way to overcome sin is with a new nature. This truth must sink into one’s being if he is to understand God’s revelation about sin, righteousness, and man’s condition. Apart from such understanding everything God has revealed in the Bible about sin will be misunderstood.God gave Israel the Mosaic Law for one purpose: to reveal sin and condemn (Romans 2:19). Paul wrote Timothy:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [SUP]9 [/SUP]realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers [SUP]10 [/SUP]and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, [SUP]11 [/SUP]according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted (1Timothy 1:8-11).
​

 

[MadebyHim]

History of the Mosaic LawGod gave the Mosaic Law to Israel through Moses on Mount Sinai (Exodus 20). The Mosaic Law was God’s moral, ceremonial, and civil law to govern a Jew’s daily life. The Decalogue expressed God’s moral law. But the moral law existed long before Moses’ encounter with God on Mt. Sinai. The moral law reflects the nature and character of God and is eternal. God codified the moral law in the Mosaic Law and made Israel accountable to it. Before the Mosaic Law, morality was “written on the heart” (Romans 2:14-15) in man’s conscience.
The Mosaic Law contained the moral, ceremonial, and civil law but Jews did not regard it as being in three parts; they regarded it as a single tapestry. For the Jew, removal of any aspect of the Law was unthinkable because God had given ALL the Law

[SUP]23[/SUP] But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. [SUP]24[/SUP] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. [SUP]25[/SUP] But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. [SUP]26[/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27[/SUP] For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [SUP]28[/SUP] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29[/SUP] And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

 

[dcontroversal]

There is something surprising to me.
I met Christ properly back in 1978. It changed my life, my thought, my focus.

This thread and many others desire to redefine the very foundations of this experience.
For me this is impossible because the truths there are too fundamental to both life
and Christ.

Now the reason the world is lost is because of sin and a lack of love.
But some weird ex-legalists want to say the world is lost because of a distorted
view of faith. Only blind and deaf teachers who cannot face their version of faith
failed in their lives and they cannot give up, so they have made a new faith without
the need for real righteousness, is their cop out excuse.

But this is just legalism without law, and still with no reality.

More assumptions on your part.....believe what you will pal...I did not invite you to this thread...as a matter of fact you posted here freely....not my fault you chose to believe you help Jesus get you there.......