Prodigal son - eternally saved or the lost who found God

[PeterJens]

Parables

Most of the parables are about a positional emotional relationships.
Father, son, rebellion, reconciliation.
A lost sheep, found and restored.
An owner and the tenants who farm the land, rebellion, judgement.
A good loving neighbour who saves someone in need.

You know you have something wrong, when one of the parables jars with
your heart. Jesus told them because in a small story so much truth is shown
without explanation needed.

Our job is to let these parables work out in us to resolution.

 

[garee]

Now some suppose the son was always a son.

Jesus is saying the son sinned and disowned all he had and who he was. He
walked away for the safe secure and blessed place with his father.

He walked away with Emanuel. It’s a picture of God’s grace.

And one (the elder)who thought he did not need it.(self-righteous ) Like the man in Mathew 7 Called a worker of inquity.

I like to look at the parable as the “waiting Father” A picture of God’s long suffering he has for us. Giving, one son his inheritance a picture of salvation, equal to his new born again birth right.

To his father he was now dead, lost, gone forever.

Not gone forever just dead as in the trespasses, denying Christ in unbelief(no faith) it was more of a picture he was being drawn to repent .

Repentance is a work of God . No man can come to the father unless he turns them by His faith, as a work of God As he turns us by faith we then can follow the instruction to repent .No turning, no repenting .He must do the first works

Restoration was because the son came back, accepted servant hood, admitted sin
and wanted forgiveness, which the father was willing and joyful to give.

Some suppose to leave the father, to rebel, to sin is not why judgement is coming,
rather you are still a son so saved.

The inheritance he gave him was eternal life. Passing from death to eternal life. He will not come into judgement Christ stood in his place and suffered for his sin

This is pure universalism.
As sons we inherit the authority of our Father, so equally if we rebel against Him,
we inherit his anger and judgement. You cannot have one without the other.

Do we lose our salvation when we sin by dening Christ ?

And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. Luk 15:16

Unclean food, the food of unbelief. (no faith) And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,Luk 15:16-7-18

Luk 15:20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

There as the father draws him with a hunger and thirst for the gospel .And not a righteousness of his own self like the elder brother that never entered into fellow ship with God

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot ‘deny himself”. 2Ti 2:11

 

[BeyondET]

He is the "character" of the father in the "parable".

is that 100% correct, in the parable mentions the son saying he has sinned against heaven (who's in heaven?) and against you meaning his earthly father..

Luke 15
18I will get up and go back to my father and say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants.”’

In saying its God character, that is still a theory and because there is no actual verses that says the father in the parable is a representation of God character. Jesus gives the parable but doesn't say it's about him or God.. in my opinion It's a parable about a man and his two sons.



"Honor your father and your mother.

 

[Enow]

The prodigal son's story also included the elder son's story. The elder son or firstfruits, complained that he did everything that was asked of him of the father; the father said to the son that everything he has was his, which is indicative that it was not the same for the prodigal son whom had given up his first inheritance for wild living, because he can never get that back. And so it will be for saved believers that get left behind at the pre trib rapture for not departing from iniquity.

If you look at the purpose when a church's excommunicate, then you may see why God is going to do it at the pre trib rapture.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

See verse 5? Now what happens when a church did not catch a one in a trespass to correct privately, and then with 2 or 3 witnesses, and then with the whole congregation that the saved believer did not repent of an iniquity? God will excommunicate him or her at the time He judges His House firat at the pre trib rapture event.

BECAUSE.... there is only one way to hold that Marriage Supper and that is the way we are supposed to hold fellowship at church.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?[SUP]7 [/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is why Jesus is warning believers to beware just as He had addressed the churches in Revelation to get ready or else.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?[SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?[SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.[SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;[SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Verse 46 is testifying to being cut off; becoming a castaway; but note how Jesus refers to those cut off as still His servants as they are receiving stripes per their knowledge of their unrepentant iniquity.

[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.[SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.[SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So a fire is coming immediately upon the earth at the pre tribulational rapture event which will burn up one third of the earth which is the entire western hemisphere in setting the stage for the coming great tribulation by which those saints left behind will be resurrected after the great tribulation as the prodigal sons to serve the King of kings on the earth.

So the prodigal sons are not the elect that got raptured because the prodigal sons were not looking to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to help them discern by the KJV good and evil so that with His help, they may depart from iniquity to be ready to go.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in being left behind, but Revelation testifies of God performing a miracle of wiping the tears from their eyes to get them past that loss of being damned as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for then, they can never be that vessel unto honor any more once the door to the Marriage Supper has been shut in Heaven.

That is why the story of the prodigal son also includes the story of the elder son as the elder son has everything that the Father has; the glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus whereas the prodigal son had given up his first inheritance for wild living and although he is still son, he can never have what he had given up; in spite of being in his father's house, but there will be rejoicing because Jesus Christ shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

So go before that throne of grace now and ask Jesus as your personal Good Shepherd to help you discern by the KJV good and evil to help you see and depart from iniquity in getting ready for the Bridegroom for He shall be coming soon.

 

[BeyondET]

The prodigal son's story also included the elder son's story. The elder son or firstfruits, complained that he did everything that was asked of him of the father; the father said to the son that everything he has was his, which is indicative that it was not the same for the prodigal son whom had given up his first inheritance for wild living, because he can never get that back. And so it will be for saved believers that get left behind at the pre trib rapture for not departing from iniquity.

If you look at the purpose when a church's excommunicate, then you may see why God is going to do it at the pre trib rapture.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

See verse 5? Now what happens when a church did not catch a one in a trespass to correct privately, and then with 2 or 3 witnesses, and then with the whole congregation that the saved believer did not repent of an iniquity? God will excommunicate him or her at the time He judges His House firat at the pre trib rapture event.

BECAUSE.... there is only one way to hold that Marriage Supper and that is the way we are supposed to hold fellowship at church.

1 Corinthians 5:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?[SUP]7 [/SUP]Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:[SUP]8 [/SUP]Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is why Jesus is warning believers to beware just as He had addressed the churches in Revelation to get ready or else.

Luke 12:[SUP]40 [/SUP]Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?[SUP]42 [/SUP]And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?[SUP]43 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.[SUP]45 [/SUP]But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;[SUP]46 [/SUP]The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Verse 46 is testifying to being cut off; becoming a castaway; but note how Jesus refers to those cut off as still His servants as they are receiving stripes per their knowledge of their unrepentant iniquity.

[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.[SUP]48 [/SUP]But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.[SUP]49 [/SUP]I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

So a fire is coming immediately upon the earth at the pre tribulational rapture event which will burn up one third of the earth which is the entire western hemisphere in setting the stage for the coming great tribulation by which those saints left behind will be resurrected after the great tribulation as the prodigal sons to serve the King of kings on the earth.

So the prodigal sons are not the elect that got raptured because the prodigal sons were not looking to Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd to help them discern by the KJV good and evil so that with His help, they may depart from iniquity to be ready to go.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in being left behind, but Revelation testifies of God performing a miracle of wiping the tears from their eyes to get them past that loss of being damned as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for then, they can never be that vessel unto honor any more once the door to the Marriage Supper has been shut in Heaven.

That is why the story of the prodigal son also includes the story of the elder son as the elder son has everything that the Father has; the glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus whereas the prodigal son had given up his first inheritance for wild living and although he is still son, he can never have what he had given up; in spite of being in his father's house, but there will be rejoicing because Jesus Christ shall lose none of all the Father has given Him.

So go before that throne of grace now and ask Jesus as your personal Good Shepherd to help you discern by the KJV good and evil to help you see and depart from iniquity in getting ready for the Bridegroom for He shall be coming soon.

If I may you mentioned Western Hemisphere does scripture mention the (Western Hemisphere) or is this a prophecy you believe as in hearing or from other Sources?. and also you mentions KJV in your opinion is that bible the true word and no other older scrolls, letters or writings are true??

 

[MadebyHim]

My answer is the lost son that found God. Jesus didn't give a story we know of about a son that kept rebelling. But i think common sense would answer that.

 

[Hungry]

The point of putting the elder son in the story was to address that churchy people who come to salvation at a young age think that the Father should find favour on them. He explained that they will get their rewards for a life sliver well but it doesn't mean that God loves less the ones who find Him late in life.

 

[MadebyHim]

The point of putting the elder son in the story was to address that churchy people who come to salvation at a young age think that the Father should find favour on them. He explained that they will get their rewards for a life sliver well but it doesn't mean that God loves less the ones who find Him late in life.

i agree, as no jew or greek, male or female, rich poor, the last will be in same position as first. But wait, why wait till end to enjoy the Kingdom, Heaven is here, Jesus said so.

 

[Enow]

If I may you mentioned Western Hemisphere does scripture mention the (Western Hemisphere) or is this a prophecy you believe as in hearing or from other Sources?. and also you mentions KJV in your opinion is that bible the true word and no other older scrolls, letters or writings are true??

If you consider all the nations that are prophesied in this coming new world order, it does not leave much for the prophesy if the third of the earth includes the other side of the world. This is why Babylon is fallen as USA is the daughter of Babylon when "we the people" is the same voice that Babylon gave for staying together as a people instead of spreading out to subdue the earth. This is not the same as mystery Babylon because that is another Babylon altogether which some alludes to be the RCC, but only God can confirm that to any one in understanding Revelation.

Revelation 18th chapter gives in detail what the 2nd angel spoke of when those 3 angels are setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as everyone will know of the gospel by the first angel, then the calamity which the 2nd angel will tell the whole world about, and then the third angel warning every one the consequence of the lake of fire for taking the mark of the beast to buy and sell in the coming hew world order which is why it is called the great tribulation

So Revelation 18th chapter happens right after the pre trib rapture and after the first angel spreading the everlasting gospel in Revelations 14:6-13 where in verse 13, testifies of those left behind to be made to rest from their labours as Revelation 18th chapter testifies that the saints' left behind will have their works follow them to their death; which is ashes to ashes as their wood and stubble and hay will be burned up with them so that their souls may be saved in the day of Christ Jesus.

Revelation 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[SUP]10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Luke 18:[SUP]7[/SUP]And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?[SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Revelation 18:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.[SUP]24[/SUP]And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

So God avenges the elect on the wayward and unrepentant saints left behind and that is why the voice of the bride & bridegroom is no longer heard in her any more because this is after the pre tribulational rapture event as saints working for their salvation that deny Him are just as bad as the saints that live in sinful lifestyle without repentance. These be the prodigal sons for the works of hay, stubble, and wood will be burned up upon that foundation which was laid by Jesus, but that foundations remains just as the seal does for they are sons.

Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[Ariel82]

I disagree, Even OT people had to be saved by faith. Abraham was claimed righteous before the law was even given.. To say it is different is to claim two gospels. and that is dangerous.

That doesn't even touch anything I stated that I find it hard to it as a response to my statements and not just an automatic response. My statement clearly states that there is only One seed and many claim to be sons who are not given the promise...only Jesus Was given that promise.

How does God deal with Esau and Ishmael?

They were called sons too.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is the Father figure Jesus and not the Heavenly father aspect of the Trinity?

Because Jesus paid for our redemption as sons with his own blood. Thus we are blood related to Jesus?

 

[Ariel82]

That is assumptions added to the parable.

 

[BeyondET]

If you consider all the nations that are prophesied in this coming new world order, it does not leave much for the prophesy if the third of the earth includes the other side of the world. This is why Babylon is fallen as USA is the daughter of Babylon when "we the people" is the same voice that Babylon gave for staying together as a people instead of spreading out to subdue the earth. This is not the same as mystery Babylon because that is another Babylon altogether which some alludes to be the RCC, but only God can confirm that to any one in understanding Revelation.

Revelation 18th chapter gives in detail what the 2nd angel spoke of when those 3 angels are setting up the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth as everyone will know of the gospel by the first angel, then the calamity which the 2nd angel will tell the whole world about, and then the third angel warning every one the consequence of the lake of fire for taking the mark of the beast to buy and sell in the coming hew world order which is why it is called the great tribulation

So Revelation 18th chapter happens right after the pre trib rapture and after the first angel spreading the everlasting gospel in Revelations 14:6-13 where in verse 13, testifies of those left behind to be made to rest from their labours as Revelation 18th chapter testifies that the saints' left behind will have their works follow them to their death; which is ashes to ashes as their wood and stubble and hay will be burned up with them so that their souls may be saved in the day of Christ Jesus.

Revelation 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [SUP]7 [/SUP]Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.[SUP]8 [/SUP]And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.[SUP]9 [/SUP]And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,[SUP]10 [/SUP]The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Luke 18:[SUP]7[/SUP]And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?[SUP]8 [/SUP]I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Revelation 18:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.[SUP]22 [/SUP]And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.[SUP]24[/SUP]And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

So God avenges the elect on the wayward and unrepentant saints left behind and that is why the voice of the bride & bridegroom is no longer heard in her any more because this is after the pre tribulational rapture event as saints working for their salvation that deny Him are just as bad as the saints that live in sinful lifestyle without repentance. These be the prodigal sons for the works of hay, stubble, and wood will be burned up upon that foundation which was laid by Jesus, but that foundations remains just as the seal does for they are sons.

Titus 1:[SUP]13 [/SUP]This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;[SUP]14 [/SUP]Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I hear what your saying, but you are thinking today's nations is the one scripture speaks, in ww2 or ww1 those folks probably thought the very same thing your thinking right now,, but the truth is I don't know niether you know when it will take place..

Me and you and every person here could be long gone from the physical world before that takes place.. That how conspiracies form. It may appear as everything around you points to it happening in your life time. In times of old around the 1400's the Black Plague killed half of Englands population and over 150 million world wide when the worlds population was about 350 million whole groups of people thousands of people were going around flogging themselves because they thought it's the end times.

There have been many time since revelations was written any one of those serious events could have been a depliction of the end times especially from the prospective of the people who witness those events..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What inheritance did the sons receive? What is promised in the parable?

it was not to be the promise to be the son, It was not an eternal promise. It was things which would make his life more blessed while alive here on earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not even worth discussing anymore when it becomes a PeterJens and EG fight.

Going to find another thread.

Was actually hoping for some discussion and maybe answers to why people believe as they do,

This is just wrong,. I have not even said a word to Peter.

Yu need to stop this stuff..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The angels that lost their first estate (1/3) didn't quit being called angels, either. So what's your point?

Typical.

This would relate. If we were talking about humans. But we are not. Angels were never blood born sons or daughters.. Can't use it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That doesn't even touch anything I stated that I find it hard to it as a response to my statements and not just an automatic response. My statement clearly states that there is only One seed and many claim to be sons who are not given the promise...only Jesus Was given that promise.

How does God deal with Esau and Ishmael?

They were called sons too.

what does that's have to do with the son? Was the one who left Ishmael and the one who stayed Isaac? I do not get it.. ANd that is NOT what I was responding to.

God gave Ishmael and inheritance, and promised to be with him. What's your point?

Ishmael was a son of Abraham, as was Issac.

 

[Ariel82]

it was not to be the promise to be the son, It was not an eternal promise. It was things which would make his life more blessed while alive here on earth.

So are you saying in the parable the inheritance promised is not eternal life?

I think looking at the parables before and after this one would also give insight into understanding this one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is assumptions added to the parable.

And everyone else's assumptions are ???

how can you days after day say salvation is eternal. Then when a certain people starts to go against that teaching, and use things like this in San attempt to prove salvation is not eternal but must be earned. Defend them and say they are right?

 

[Enow]

My answer is the lost son that found God. Jesus didn't give a story we know of about a son that kept rebelling. But i think common sense would answer that.

If you keep in mind this one truth:

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And this was written before the story of the prodigal son....

Luke 15:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he spake this parable unto them, saying,[SUP]4 [/SUP]What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.[SUP]7 [/SUP]I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when she hath found it, she calleth her friends and her neighbours together, saying, Rejoice with me; for I have found the piece which I had lost.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Then if they never had His seal, how can the prodigal son be called His son? The lost here are those with His seal for these words to imply they were in His possessions, but was lost, and now found.

Here is more to that point of view.

Matthew 18:[SUP]10 [/SUP]Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.[SUP]12 [/SUP]How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[SUP]13 [/SUP]And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

So the little ones; the new believers that do not know any better because they are not rooted in the world in being His disciples by trusting Him & all His promises to them in being their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him...that are at risk of being left behind to perish a physical death.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

And so for any saved believer that is not prepared by Him that are found in iniquity, shall be left behind as one denied entrance to the Marriage Supper by those iniquities, but He still abides & He will finish His work even in those left behind.

Another one is about those who follow a stranger's voice like tongues without interpretation by climbing up another way in going around the Son for that gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and going to the Holy Spirit for that gift for the Holy Spirit to fall on them to bring that tongue which never comes with interpretation.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.[SUP]2 [/SUP]But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.[SUP]6 [/SUP]This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

So thinking that this spirit coming inbetween them and the Son with a tongue they assume is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit and yet seen also in mediums and wizards that speak by way of familiar spirits? These are the thieves and robbers that come inbetween us and the Bridegroom. The Bridegroom speaks to us through the Holy Spirit, but our verbal response in our relationship with the Bridegroom should always be from us to the Bridegroom; for how else can wayward believers know they have gone astray besides seeking a tongue by receiving the Holy Ghost again & not by asking Jesus?

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That means the Holy Spirit is not the One to pray to and so it was not the Holy Spirit that answered those prayers to come and fall on them to bring tongues with no interpretation. That is climbing around the Son.


Jesus says that they are not of the fold that followed His voice BUT He MUST bring them as He declares then as His sheep as well but the ones that fell away from the faith as prophesied in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter.

We continue back in John 10th chapter to see those wayward believers are still His even though they never repented from following the stranger's voice.

John 10:[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.[SUP]15 [/SUP]As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Here Jesus again mentions the sheep that follows His voice and then He refers to those lost sheep that followed the stranger's voice that were not of the fold that followed His voice as He must bring them as they are His other sheep.

[SUP]16[/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Those left behind will be made to hear His voice as they will serve the King of kings on earth, thus they will see Him and hear His voice where no spirit will come inbetween them and Him again for they will be forced to speak to Him directly.

So this is how I apply those verses to the lost sheep that have His seal as belonging to Him rather than the lost that never had His seal because they never believed in Him to be saved to fall away from the faith and get lost by that way.