Hello Everyone,
Thanks for bearing with me... I was originally going to space these threads a few days apart, but I think it's probably best that I write them now while the ideas are still churning around in my mind.
Now, if you've read the first thread in this series, I'm sure a number of people will say something to the effect of, "Oh, that man obviously was not a real Christian!"
One of my pet peeves is when well-meaning Christian people give you cookie-cutter answers and Scriptures without really listening to what you have to say.
I have shared my views and experiences with dating several times before and some well-meaning people have said, "Congratulations, you're finding out that some people who claim to be Christians aren't real Christians."
Brilliant!! I'd never thought of that--thanks so much for the Einstein revelation!!! My life is now forever changed thanks to your ever-so-thoughtful condescending advice!!!
So, my dear fellow CCer's--here is what I'd like you to talk back to me about--WHAT, exactly, IS a real Christian? Yes, the Bible says you will know them by their fruits and character...
So... is a man, such as this, who is actively involved in worship and church activities but obviously has a preoccupation with sex a "real" Christian? (I told a friend, "What's worse? A guy who thinks about sex all the time and doesn't say anything... or a guy who thinks about sex all the time and DOES say something?")
Consider these other real-life examples I have had with "good Christian men" as I was growing up in the Lutheran schools:
1. A teacher who, when I was 12, kept me after school and told me I was "beautiful" and that he "wanted to help me". Now, I was kept from harm, and throughout the years, I have often asked God, "Why was I spared when so many others are not?" But this teacher would also lead our phys ed classes by using the prettiest girl in class (not me) as his "model" and "demonstrate" "stretches" he wanted us all to do--all of which, of course, mimicked various sexual positions and actions.
My Mom went with me and a group of my friends to talk to our head pastor about it... and were basically told, "You have no proof that he's actually thinking something wrong... we can't just accuse someone!" In other words... be quiet, don't cause trouble, and don't rock the boat. Nothing was done to this teacher and all we could do was survive the time we had left in his class.
My heart goes out to all the victims of sex abuse within the churches every time I see the headlines in the paper.
2. Another teacher at the same school who, in a bout of frustration with a particular student, picked the boy up a good 4 feet off the ground and slammed him into the wall.
3. Pastors (not at my school or church, but at other places I had affiliations with) and a former high school boss of mine who were arrested and sentenced to prison time for child pornography.
4. The most popular boys at my Lutheran high school (the jocks) who bragged about going to the local strip club every week and carried condoms in their wallets, often showing them off. At my 5-year high school reunion, one of the boys in my class brought what he considered to be his greatest life achievement--the stripper he'd married, whom, when we took our class picture, he ordered to, "Stand over here, baby... and be sure to look HOT."
Now, once again, guys, I am NOT trying to beat up on you here!!! Because we could also make a similar list for the ladies--is a woman a true Christian if she is heavily involved in church but:
1. Dresses provacatively.
2. Dates a man for social status and/material gain.
3. Always has to have the attention of several different men at once.
And the list can go on...
As my own personal conclusion, and this is just for myself... I think that yes, of course there are people who claim to be true Christians but are not... but I also believe there are true Christians who are sincere and real in their faith, but are also real human beings struggling tough issues.
After all, I have been in prayer lines with tears in my eyes and cuts down my arms and ankles... and I am not one to cry, especially in public, nor am I one to make a scene for attention (believe it or not! I kept the cuts well-hidden and only showed them when I hit a breaking point.) I know very well what it's like to be standing in a line, waiting, hoping, praying... begging God for someone, anyone to help you... asking good Christian people, "Can you please help me, because this is killing me..." and all they do is quote a few Scriptures, tell you to pray more and read your Bible, say, "Oh, my daughter's friend used to do that too," then give you a half-hearted pat on the back and send you on your way.
Was I a Christian at this time? Some would say no. (A very special Christian friend helped me get over this and change my life around, but that's another long story for another time.)
But I do believe I was a Christian even then.
Like most other Christians, I was struggling, and I would say this man I went on a date with is also a Christian, but struggling.
How about all of you? What are your thoughts and experiences?
Thanks for bearing with me... I was originally going to space these threads a few days apart, but I think it's probably best that I write them now while the ideas are still churning around in my mind.
Now, if you've read the first thread in this series, I'm sure a number of people will say something to the effect of, "Oh, that man obviously was not a real Christian!"
One of my pet peeves is when well-meaning Christian people give you cookie-cutter answers and Scriptures without really listening to what you have to say.
I have shared my views and experiences with dating several times before and some well-meaning people have said, "Congratulations, you're finding out that some people who claim to be Christians aren't real Christians."
Brilliant!! I'd never thought of that--thanks so much for the Einstein revelation!!! My life is now forever changed thanks to your ever-so-thoughtful condescending advice!!!
So, my dear fellow CCer's--here is what I'd like you to talk back to me about--WHAT, exactly, IS a real Christian? Yes, the Bible says you will know them by their fruits and character...
So... is a man, such as this, who is actively involved in worship and church activities but obviously has a preoccupation with sex a "real" Christian? (I told a friend, "What's worse? A guy who thinks about sex all the time and doesn't say anything... or a guy who thinks about sex all the time and DOES say something?")
Consider these other real-life examples I have had with "good Christian men" as I was growing up in the Lutheran schools:
1. A teacher who, when I was 12, kept me after school and told me I was "beautiful" and that he "wanted to help me". Now, I was kept from harm, and throughout the years, I have often asked God, "Why was I spared when so many others are not?" But this teacher would also lead our phys ed classes by using the prettiest girl in class (not me) as his "model" and "demonstrate" "stretches" he wanted us all to do--all of which, of course, mimicked various sexual positions and actions.
My Mom went with me and a group of my friends to talk to our head pastor about it... and were basically told, "You have no proof that he's actually thinking something wrong... we can't just accuse someone!" In other words... be quiet, don't cause trouble, and don't rock the boat. Nothing was done to this teacher and all we could do was survive the time we had left in his class.
My heart goes out to all the victims of sex abuse within the churches every time I see the headlines in the paper.
2. Another teacher at the same school who, in a bout of frustration with a particular student, picked the boy up a good 4 feet off the ground and slammed him into the wall.
3. Pastors (not at my school or church, but at other places I had affiliations with) and a former high school boss of mine who were arrested and sentenced to prison time for child pornography.
4. The most popular boys at my Lutheran high school (the jocks) who bragged about going to the local strip club every week and carried condoms in their wallets, often showing them off. At my 5-year high school reunion, one of the boys in my class brought what he considered to be his greatest life achievement--the stripper he'd married, whom, when we took our class picture, he ordered to, "Stand over here, baby... and be sure to look HOT."
Now, once again, guys, I am NOT trying to beat up on you here!!! Because we could also make a similar list for the ladies--is a woman a true Christian if she is heavily involved in church but:
1. Dresses provacatively.
2. Dates a man for social status and/material gain.
3. Always has to have the attention of several different men at once.
And the list can go on...
As my own personal conclusion, and this is just for myself... I think that yes, of course there are people who claim to be true Christians but are not... but I also believe there are true Christians who are sincere and real in their faith, but are also real human beings struggling tough issues.
After all, I have been in prayer lines with tears in my eyes and cuts down my arms and ankles... and I am not one to cry, especially in public, nor am I one to make a scene for attention (believe it or not! I kept the cuts well-hidden and only showed them when I hit a breaking point.) I know very well what it's like to be standing in a line, waiting, hoping, praying... begging God for someone, anyone to help you... asking good Christian people, "Can you please help me, because this is killing me..." and all they do is quote a few Scriptures, tell you to pray more and read your Bible, say, "Oh, my daughter's friend used to do that too," then give you a half-hearted pat on the back and send you on your way.
Was I a Christian at this time? Some would say no. (A very special Christian friend helped me get over this and change my life around, but that's another long story for another time.)
But I do believe I was a Christian even then.
Like most other Christians, I was struggling, and I would say this man I went on a date with is also a Christian, but struggling.
How about all of you? What are your thoughts and experiences?
