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Kosher money,the problem always was those pesky little pictures. I do agree though there is only limited options to what D'ist can use as an answer seeing they point into the future and see it after they are no longer here. That's in general what I point out to them is the importance of none of the wrath being connected to any of the events in their days.
The same problem is still sitting there though which is, "why the apostles taught that it was proper to see Rome as governor over them and to use their money" because Rome existed until 476ad 406 years after the DoJ. So why was it okay for the Christians to use the money of the fourth beast and why did they see Rome as ordained by God?
On the other hand the thing about preterism is that instead of seeing it future they see the events as being fulfilled so the struggle is to take history and the bible both and make them agree. Why is because they say that these things are fulfilled but cannot explain how. The opposite is true of D'ism since they say it's future no matter what they say there's no way you could argue.
That one question though if you can answer it, "why did the apostles teach them to honour Rome as if by God,and how is it if they did why did they not have the mark". Now if you look at one thing and reason through why you'll see the mark. Hint:God said they were appointed 70weeks,they suffered through the first beast,then the second,then the third but when it came to the fourth beast,the sixth head instead of obeying God and suffering the full punishment by waiting for the seventh head,the ten horns ect. to come they jumped the gun and when it was the days of the sixth head they rebelled and refused to honour the kingdom God set over them as punishment and if God had set it there and appointed it it's measured time if they fought it,then they were fighting God.
The same problem is still sitting there though which is, "why the apostles taught that it was proper to see Rome as governor over them and to use their money" because Rome existed until 476ad 406 years after the DoJ. So why was it okay for the Christians to use the money of the fourth beast and why did they see Rome as ordained by God?
On the other hand the thing about preterism is that instead of seeing it future they see the events as being fulfilled so the struggle is to take history and the bible both and make them agree. Why is because they say that these things are fulfilled but cannot explain how. The opposite is true of D'ism since they say it's future no matter what they say there's no way you could argue.
That one question though if you can answer it, "why did the apostles teach them to honour Rome as if by God,and how is it if they did why did they not have the mark". Now if you look at one thing and reason through why you'll see the mark. Hint:God said they were appointed 70weeks,they suffered through the first beast,then the second,then the third but when it came to the fourth beast,the sixth head instead of obeying God and suffering the full punishment by waiting for the seventh head,the ten horns ect. to come they jumped the gun and when it was the days of the sixth head they rebelled and refused to honour the kingdom God set over them as punishment and if God had set it there and appointed it it's measured time if they fought it,then they were fighting God.
[quote]The Wrath of God has been poured out onto the earth...
The Great White Throne Judgment Day is over...[/quote]
Hello GaryA,
Just like many, you have a very watered down, passive view of God's wrath. The wrath of God is going to decimate the majority of the population and dismantle all human government during the day of the Lord. During that time, no one will have to ask, "Has the wrath of God begun?"
Also, if the great white throne judgment was over, there would be no more sinners, for they would all be in the lake of fire, the great tribulation and the millennial period would have already taken place and we would currently be living in the new Jerusalem with the new heaven and new earth.
Needless to say, none of those things have yet taken place, that is of course unless you spiritualize them, taking away their literal fulfillment.
The Great White Throne Judgment Day is over...[/quote]
Hello GaryA,
Just like many, you have a very watered down, passive view of God's wrath. The wrath of God is going to decimate the majority of the population and dismantle all human government during the day of the Lord. During that time, no one will have to ask, "Has the wrath of God begun?"
Also, if the great white throne judgment was over, there would be no more sinners, for they would all be in the lake of fire, the great tribulation and the millennial period would have already taken place and we would currently be living in the new Jerusalem with the new heaven and new earth.
Needless to say, none of those things have yet taken place, that is of course unless you spiritualize them, taking away their literal fulfillment.
What? think about it if you are preterit then you believe it has been fulfilled. If you say something is fulfilled and then those new to Christianity ask when or how it was fulfilled if you don’t answer them by showing them how it was fulfilled then they have no reason to believe you.
think about it, "I believe it is fulfilled before ad70 but I have no idea how so I think it's irrelevant, don’t ask".
You only done half the job, you left out one Greek words and conflated two Greek terms without noting the relevance and significance of:
G5034 tachos takh'-os
from the same as G5036;
a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste
KJV quickly, shortly, speedily.
You also failed to address:
G5034 tachos takh'-os
from the same as G5036;
a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste
KJV quickly, shortly, speedily.
You also failed to address:
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
There are four beast,Babylon,Persia,Greece and then Rome. Daniels people bore the punishment under Babylon,Persia,Greece but when they were under the authority of Rome instead of waiting for the 7th head and the ten horns(ten toes) in ad70 they decided to revolt and not obey God and be under the 4th beast all the way to the end of it's time.
G
It doesn't. The "brief space" is over. The event(s) have already begun.
The "brief space" is the time until the beginning of the event(s).
It does not "speak to" the length of the event(s) nor the ending of the event(s).
Once the event(s) began, the "brief space" was over.
The event(s) began a short time after the statement was issued.
The "brief space" is the time until the beginning of the event(s).
It does not "speak to" the length of the event(s) nor the ending of the event(s).
Once the event(s) began, the "brief space" was over.
The event(s) began a short time after the statement was issued.
G
Just so you understand, Locutus --- I am neither preterist nor dispensationalist. ( in my thinking )
To some people ( mainly dispensationalists ), I might be considered a preterist.
I believe that End Times prophesy in general, and Olivet Discourse prophecy in particular, is spread out over ~2000 years, starting circa 70 A.D. and ending in the future.
Some is past, some is present, some is future.
I believe we are in the Great Tribulation now - which started circa 70 A.D. and will end at a time in the future.
I believe the 'mark of the beast' is yet future.
I believe in the [ yet future ] physical 1000-year reign of Christ on Earth.
To some people ( mainly dispensationalists ), I might be considered a preterist.
I believe that End Times prophesy in general, and Olivet Discourse prophecy in particular, is spread out over ~2000 years, starting circa 70 A.D. and ending in the future.
Some is past, some is present, some is future.
I believe we are in the Great Tribulation now - which started circa 70 A.D. and will end at a time in the future.
I believe the 'mark of the beast' is yet future.
I believe in the [ yet future ] physical 1000-year reign of Christ on Earth.
I didn’t say it did,I said if Rome was that beast and those who revolted in ad70 minted their own coins and refused to see Rome as God then if they revolted and did not use his money then they did not have the mark (if Rome was that beast) And if Rome was that beast and the apostles taught to honour it as ordained by God and use his money then they would have been telling them to take the mark(if the beast was Rome)
But now if at the time Revelation was given if the sixth head(one is), Rev.17:10 and the other is "not yet come" and the ten kings that came after the 7th had not yet received their kingdom Rev.17:12 then when you consider the fourth beast from Daniel(Rome) then at the time that John saw this there were still the remaining time that Daniels people would still be under from the 70weeks.
So the fourth beast was there but there were still other things about it from scripture to come afterwards that were determined to be done to Daniels people and so if Rome was there but not the 7th head,not the ten kings then they were still required to dwell in their houses and were under the 70 weeks. So after the seventh head and the ten horns then the two horned beast comes and the image and mark.
So if they were still under the sixth head,and the others were not there yet and the two horned beast nor the image had not come then what they were still suppose to be doing is what God told them to do while they were being punished for 70weeks Jeremiah 29:5 and Isaiah 65:21 and that was to obey the kings over them, build houses ect. which is what the apostles were telling them to do "honour the authority over you as ordained by God"(Romans 13:1) and why was because the fourth beast was still active as being over them.
But now if at the time Revelation was given if the sixth head(one is), Rev.17:10 and the other is "not yet come" and the ten kings that came after the 7th had not yet received their kingdom Rev.17:12 then when you consider the fourth beast from Daniel(Rome) then at the time that John saw this there were still the remaining time that Daniels people would still be under from the 70weeks.
So the fourth beast was there but there were still other things about it from scripture to come afterwards that were determined to be done to Daniels people and so if Rome was there but not the 7th head,not the ten kings then they were still required to dwell in their houses and were under the 70 weeks. So after the seventh head and the ten horns then the two horned beast comes and the image and mark.
So if they were still under the sixth head,and the others were not there yet and the two horned beast nor the image had not come then what they were still suppose to be doing is what God told them to do while they were being punished for 70weeks Jeremiah 29:5 and Isaiah 65:21 and that was to obey the kings over them, build houses ect. which is what the apostles were telling them to do "honour the authority over you as ordained by God"(Romans 13:1) and why was because the fourth beast was still active as being over them.
G
To give insight to "just where I stand" on these things...
Revelation 13:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. [SUP]2[/SUP] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. [SUP]3[/SUP] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. [SUP]4[/SUP] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? [SUP]5[/SUP] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [SUP]6[/SUP] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [SUP]7[/SUP] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
I believe this is talking about the Holy Roman Empire. The 42 months referred to in verse 5 equates to the years 538 to 1798, when the HRE existed as a world empire...
You see --- the problem everyone has with End Times prophecy - whether they believe it has all occurred or is yet to occur - they believe that "it all happens fast" in a [ relatively ] short period of time -- which is erroneous in view of "God's timing" and history. The reality is in between these other 'extremist' views. End Times prophecy has been "unfolding" over the past ~2000 years...
Some past, some present, some future.
Revelation 13:
[SUP]1[/SUP] And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. [SUP]2[/SUP] And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. [SUP]3[/SUP] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. [SUP]4[/SUP] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? [SUP]5[/SUP] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [SUP]6[/SUP] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. [SUP]7[/SUP] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
I believe this is talking about the Holy Roman Empire. The 42 months referred to in verse 5 equates to the years 538 to 1798, when the HRE existed as a world empire...
You see --- the problem everyone has with End Times prophecy - whether they believe it has all occurred or is yet to occur - they believe that "it all happens fast" in a [ relatively ] short period of time -- which is erroneous in view of "God's timing" and history. The reality is in between these other 'extremist' views. End Times prophecy has been "unfolding" over the past ~2000 years...
Some past, some present, some future.