Are you preterist or merely 'modified post-trib'?

PlainWord · Feb 24, 2017

abcdef,

It is not the RCC. Yes, the 4th beast of Daniel with the two legs was ROME. But, go to the feet and toes. The rock strikes the feet and toes. Focus on them. Rome split in two, western and eastern. The western toes became England, Spain, France, Germany and Italy. The eastern foot became the Byzantine Empire at this point then was taken over by the Ottoman Empire in 1299. The five toes on this foot are today Muslim. The nations of both feet will invade Israel. Is there any doubt that the UN hates Israel? They favor the Palestinians over Israel as most of the world does. Even England is heading that direction.

I believe in the end it will be the USA and Israel (2 witnesses) against the world. Trump is alienating the rest of the world already. Other than Israel, what countries celebrated Trump's victory? Can you name one?

PlainWord · Feb 24, 2017

The Olivet is a very difficult topic. I don't blame anyone for not fully understanding it because none of us do. I have been all over the place on this but reading War of the Jews Books 3-6 proved that the Great Tribulation of Mat 24:21 was indeed 66-70 AD. For those who love prophesy, I really urge you to read Josephus if you want to finally understand the Olivet. The other suggestion I would offer is to study all three accounts of the Olivet in the context they are in as they add to each other. That said, here's how I see the Olivet.

[SUP]41 [/SUP]Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, [SUP]42 [/SUP]saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. [SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, [SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Please note the underlined phrase above. Jesus is speaking to His generation. If you read Josephus you will learn that Rome built an embankment around the city and starved those inside. After taking the city, the entire city, not just the temple, was completely removed and left desolated (deserted). Some Jews were allowed to flee but many were taken captive and brought to Rome with many being killed along the way.

The only things left standing in Jerusalem were three Roman towers of which the Wailing Wall was a part. Keep all of this in mind as you read Mat 24:1-2 because then we have the famous question:

“Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

You better believe the disciples were very interested about the temple and city so Jesus spends much time (until verse 26) telling them what would come. If you read Josephus, EVERY SINGLE CLUE Jesus gives, Josephus confirms including the false Christs who led thousands to their deaths.

Now some will tell you based on verse 34 that Christ also came back in 70 AD as the two Tyrants, John and Simon, and their men were fighting the Romans at the Temple as it was burning. Indeed Josephus talks about chariots in the sky and a heavenly army being witnessed by some. However, I do not think this was the Second Coming. I do think the presence of Messiah was felt and near. Many strange things were taking place that was freaking people out. The fire that the zealots started to burn the Roman "engines" suddenly blow back at them and burned their defenses. But I see all of this as the presence of Christ getting His revenge much as God used to appear in a cloud during their days in the wilderness.

Rome was not harmed by God, they were actually helped. God gave Rome the victory to punish that wicked generation that crucified Him and did unspeakable harm to their own people.

When you get to verse 27, I think we are now looking at the future although verse 34 indicated that this generation (the one Jesus was speaking to of 30-70 AD) were to see "all these things." But I don't think verses 28-31 apply. I think He was simply giving a little carve out after verse 26 to tell a bit about His return. He then goes back to and concludes His discussion of 70 AD events with verses 32-35. Then in verse 36 and until the end of Mat 25 He is discussing His future Second Coming. I know this because of the account in Luke 17:24-37 is all future.

Clear signs were given for the destruction of the temple and city. No signs are given for the Second Coming. But good new, there is NO FUTURE GREAT TRIBULATION FOR WE BELIEVERS. We aren't taken to the body, only the wicked are taken there.

Locutus · Feb 24, 2017

PlainWord said:

Islam is not even in view when Paul wrote PL - this was the A-millennial position early on in the protestant revolution:

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 30
What saith the Scripture? - Cast out the bond woman and her son: and what does this imply in the present case? Why, that the present Jerusalem and her children shall be cast out of the favor of God, and shall not be heirs with the son of the free woman - shall not inherit the blessings promised to Abraham, because they believe not in the promised seed.

Locutus · Feb 24, 2017

PlainWord said:

Is this the last Trump?

Which end time/theology scenario will be represented by the USA....

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

(Rev 11:4 KJV) These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

John defines candlesticks for us - to arbitrarily changed the symbolism to two countries is a bad hermeneutic in my opinion

abcdef · Feb 24, 2017

Locutus said:

Good one, "use by date".

Jesus still loves His people, the natural branches, just like any other person on this planet, .... or in space.

All are invited to enter the Kingdom.

All are invited to be graffed in.

What about their children and grandchildren etc., up to the present,

Isn't salvation ongoing through the generations until now?

Aren't the children of Israel still alive?

Some Christians, who live in Israel, or Jerusalem?

"Now is the day of salvation", Rom 6:2,

It is still the "day" of salvation at the present time for everyone,

It is not necessarily ended in 70 ad.

The "day at hand" is the time of salvation, still open to all.

Of course it may sometimes refer to the dest of Jeru in 70 ad.

abcdef · Feb 24, 2017

Locutus said:

The flesh and the elect, are Israel in the flesh.

Good question,

If God was done with flesh Israel, why would he be concerned with saving the flesh descendants after the dest of Jeru?

"All things", meaning events surrounding the dest of Jeru in 70 ad.

Not every prophecy in the OT.

--

Gen 8:9, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

When it says "while the earth remaineth", it points to a time when all these things mentioned will cease.

That time is yet to come.

abcdef · Feb 24, 2017

PlainWord said:

abcdef,

Who is the iron between 476 ad and the present?

WHO is the iron of the toes?

Who is the iron right now?

Russia.

The 2 witness are the WORD of God, Zech 4:6.

The Word of God is given THROUGH Israel.

Israel is the 2 witnesses.

Israel is the flesh, through which the Word flows.

Locutus · Feb 24, 2017

abcdef said:

You are using the ol' "slight of hand" technique here.

Paul was specifically speaking about "salvation" in regards to a specific day

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

If every day was a day of salvation then he would not state it was "nearer".

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Redemption:

Strongs

G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis

from a compound of G575 and G3083;

(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.

KJV: deliverance, redemption.[/i]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When was this redemption/salvation that was "nearer" to occur:

(Luke 21:20 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The exhortation of the Hebrews affirms "the day" was approaching.

Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

Unless you can find another day of salvation/redemption that involves Jerusalem "compassed with armies" then your "theology" has failed.

abcdef · Feb 24, 2017

Locutus said:

Ok, what SPECIFIC DAY what he referring to?

Like 6/23/69 ad?

Please be very specific.

"Nearer than when we believed", closer to death.

Rom 13:13, "Let us walk honestly, as in the day:", The day of walking in God's glory, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Nearer to death and eternal salvation.

Lk 21 is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, yes?

When these things BEGIN to happen, v 28,

When did the things of Lk 21 begin to happen?

Pentecost,

The "DAY" of Pentecost.

The Day of redemption.

There is no mention of a "day of salvation" in this passage.

There is "days of vengeance" in v 22.

There is no link to the dest of Jeru, and the day of salvation, except that Pentecost is at the beginning of of these things v 28.

The day of salvation is not the dest of Jeru, those are days of vengeance.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Click to expand...

It may be that this could be referring to the dest..

The exhortation of the Hebrews affirms "the day" was approaching.

Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

Click to expand...

Who is "he"?

Unless you can find another day of salvation/redemption that involves Jerusalem "compassed with armies" then your "theology" has failed.

Click to expand...

You are trying to make the day of salvation, fit into a description of the dest of Jreu..

It says "days of vengeance" v 22, "not day of salvation".

They are far from the same.

The connection that you have attempted to make, is not there, and is an assumption on your part.

Locutus · Feb 24, 2017

abcdef said:

- yus that one..

*rolls eyes*

How can Paul be saying that the day of redemption/salvation is getting "nearer" if it was on Pentecost.

Nothing to do with the Romans dying - weak.

It's all tied together .

Same thing, Harvest - wheat and tares - already established that with John's wrath to come:

(Mat 3:12 KJV) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Someone that knew his scripture...

(Heb 9:28 KJV) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Same salvation he brought in the 1st century AD when the he burned the "chaff with unquenchable fire".

(Heb 10:37 KJV) For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

Will not tarry Harry..

abcdef · Feb 24, 2017

Locutus said:

You said that Paul was speaking of a specific day,

I asked you what the specific day was,

But you do not provide a specific day,

You do not, or cannot confirm your own statement.

Roll eyes back.

The day of redemption that Paul is talking about, that is approaching is the day of his death.

The day that salvation arrived, that redemption arrived, was the day of Pentecost.

Where did this come from?

No, you would like to tie the dest of Jeru to the day of salvation,

But there is no real, scriptural connection.

The words are spoken at the baptism of Jesus and refer to the eternal judgement, "Unquenchable fire".

So now you will attribute this passage to the 2nd resurrection?

I thought you were saying that this was about the dest of Jeru.?

Make up your mind !

Locutus · Feb 24, 2017

abcdef said:

You are looking at the statement "the day is at hand" in far too simplistic a manner - it speaks to a series of actions.

You need to look for uses of the "day of the Lord" etc in the OT. to see how the Hebrews used that style of language.

As for the destruction of Jerusalem and salvation they are tied together - they can't be separated:

John speaks of them as "one":

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

This is harvest language, the chaff suffered the wrath that was to come upon Jerusalem when it was compassed with armies in the 66-70 AD war.

Observe:

Mat 13:36 (Young's Literal) Then having let away the multitudes, Jesus came to the house, and his disciples came near to him, saying, 'Explain to us the simile of the darnel of the field.'

Mat 13:37 And he answering said to them, 'He who is sowing the good seed is the Son of Man,

Mat 13:38 and the field is the world, and the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, and the darnel are the sons of the evil one,

Mat 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is a full end of the age, and the reapers are messengers.

Mat 13:40 'As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this age,

Paul stated that THEY were living in the full end of the age:

1 Co 10:11 And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come

The is only one harvest, there is no harvest of the wheat separate from the chaff.

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

There is no doubt that the scripture places the harvest in the 1st century AD.

If a theology places the harvest at any other time it is wrong and should be discarded.

abcdef · Feb 25, 2017

Locutus said:

I agree that it is a series of actions,

Your the one who said that it was a specific day.

I have.

No, you want to tie them together, but they are not.

Spoken of judgement, but it can't be EXCLUSIVELY about the dest of Jeru, as there is an eternal 2nd judgement also.

That possibility must remain open.

The picture of the Judgement of the dest of Jeru,

Is seen, as you point out, as a harvest/judgement (also see Rev 14:17-20).

But it is not a "salvation of the soul resurrection", harvest.

That is, the judgement of Jerusalem in 70 ad is pictured in a parable, as the separation of the wheat and tares, which it was, but it was not a day of salvation for the soul.

We must still be in the "end ages" spoken of here,

Because the planet hasn't ended yet.

No, there are only 2 harvests of souls.

1 Cor 15:23-28, 23-24,

The 1st resurrection when Jesus rose, the first fruits,

And the 2nd resurrection at His coming.

Ok, so then the 2nd resurrection at Jesus' coming would have chaff also.

A picture of the dest of Jeru,, but not the resurrection.

THe first resurrection was Jesus,

The 2nd at His coming,

There was no resurrection harvest at the dest of Jeru.

1 Cor 15:23-24, there are only 2 resurrections,

Jesus and at His coming.

Locutus · Feb 25, 2017

"Because the planet hasn't ended yet"

Where does it say the planet ends?

(Eccl 1:4 KJV) One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

PlainWord · Feb 25, 2017

Locutus said:

Not the faith, the people, the descendants of Ishmael. Paul makes a clear and direct comparison between Jews and future Muslims. Take this passage by Paul aside for now and focus on what John writes.

John was taken to the wilderness and shown a "harlot (false religion) that he apparently did not recognize as he did not name it but called it a "mystery." John would have recognized Orthodox Judaism. The "harlot" (false religion) was sitting (supported) on a beast (world power or kingdom).

"...the great harlot who sits on many waters...the waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues."

So we are looking for a false religion followed by many different peoples, nations and languages. This cannot be said about Judaism at any time since Christ or John. The woman (harlot - false religion) is also a city.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

This is why many think it's Rome but it isn't. It can't be Jerusalem either because Jerusalem was wiped out in 70 AD and rebuilt as a Roman city in 135 AD. It remained a Roman city until 614 AD when it was briefly taken by the Persians. 15 years later in 629 AD Christians took back the city but not for long as Caliph Omar came in 639 AD. Jerusalem falls under Muslim rule from this point until the Crusaders took it in 1099. Then in 1187 the Muslims retook the city and held it under various dynasties until the Brits took it in 1917.

The point is John did not recognize the place or the religion where he was taken. The only religions EVER followed in Jerusalem from his day to present are Christianity (of various denominations), Judaism and Islam.

Now please focus on the "beast" supporting the great harlot false religion. Remember, its a false religion, not a true God/Jesus worshiping faith so this rules out Christianity. It is so important to recognize John's use of the figurative "BEAST." He takes it from Daniel 7 and in Dan 7, the Beast are major historical world powers all of which had dominion over Israel; BABYLON, MEDES AND PERSIANS, GREEKS and ROMANS. So, the Beast CANNOT BE ISRAEL but rather powers OVER ISRAEL.

The beast has:

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

Rome, Jerusalem and Mecca each are said to be on "seven hills or mountains" if indeed these are literal mountains (which they aren't). Instead John is using the figurative term for spiritual strongholds. How do I know? I'll explain in a moment.

There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come...

This clue is important. Five kings who supported this false religion with their world empires are gone by John's time but one was currently active and one is future and the future one doesn't last long.

The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven.

Now we see that the BEAST is past, present and future to John. So here John is telling us that there are/were a total of eight beasts that he rolls up into one. In addition to the four beasts mentioned by Daniel, John sees seven or eight. We already know who the four Daniel saw were. Each "king" lead each kingdom. Since five were past to John, one was present and one future and we know the present one was Rome we can deduce the others.

Egypt - Assyria - Babylon - Medo Persia - Greece - Rome. This takes us through Daniel's four and John's five past and one present. So who is or was the seventh beast? We must first recognize that each of the above mentioned kingdoms were successive, one took over the other without break. So, what world empire took over after Rome? Western Rome fell in the 5th century but Eastern Rome continued on until 1,299 with it's government seat at Constantinople (Istanbul). Therefore the seventh beast had to be the ISLAMIC Ottoman Empire.

If you study the religions and manners of worship in each of these kingdom, especially Babylon you will see how ISLAM fits in perfectly. The use the same symbols (sun and moon) and worship the same way.

Compare how the Babylonians worshiped in Dan 3 but before you do, remember John called the Harlot (false religion) "Mystery Babylon." He did NOT call it "Mystery Jerusalem."

[SUP]5 [/SUP]that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up; [SUP]6 [/SUP]and whoever does not fall down and worship shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.”

So we have the music of strange instruments calling the people to worship. The people must fall down and worship the image. THIS IS EXACTLY how ISLAM does it. They have their call to worship music five times a day. Peoples from all over the world (many led by "the Kings of the Earth") who follow Islam must bow down and face Mecca and pray. The five times a day that they pray is based on the position of the sun. At Mecca is Allah's temple. The cornerstone of the Kaaba is a black meteorite that they rub and kiss and worship.

What did God tell the people of Israel when they were in the desert? What was God's first commandment?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [SUP]5 [/SUP]you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

Why do you suppose He had to tell them this? Because they were doing this in Egypt and the moment Moses went up the mountain to receive the ten commandments, the people built a golden calf to worship. The calf's horns surrounded a sun and looked very much like Islams' crescent moon and star. ISLAM is violating this first commandment. They worship the Kaaba, an image fallen from the sky, when they hear the music. They bow down and face this music. Their symbols come from the sky. The Kaaba is said to be the same black stone from the Temple of Diana.

Acts 19: And when the city clerk had quieted the crowd, he said: “Men of Ephesus, what man is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple guardian of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Zeus?

Therefore the 7th head on the beast was the Ottoman Empire. The succession of these historical beast empires ended in 1922 when this head received a mortal wound and "went to perdition" but this beast, the 8th, will come back and may be in the process of coming back.

Many of the nations which invade Israel in the end times are ISLAMIC, see Ezek 38. Persia, Libya, Ethiopia.

PlainWord · Feb 25, 2017

Locutus said:

Is the earth the planet or the people?

Matthew 5:18

For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Matthew 24:35

Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

Seems like a contraction, doesn't it?

PlainWord · Feb 25, 2017

Locutus said:

Yes, John defines candlesticks for us, but he also invokes olive trees. The symbolism for the candlestick indeed comes from Rev 1 but it also comes from Zec 4. Here we have the same symbolism that John uses. In Zec 4 we have the two nations of Israel being represented by the two olive trees. John confirms that Israel is an olive tree in Romans 11. Therefore ISRAEL was God's anointed one and witness to the rest of the world really from Moses until 70 AD.

So I said, “I am looking, and there is a lampstand of solid gold with a bowl on top of it, and on the stand seven lamps with seven pipes to the seven lamps.

Oil is representative of the Holy Spirit. The HS feeds the 7 pipes leading to the 7 lamps. Zerubbabel rebuilt the temple. In the OT the lampstand was the temple, in the NT it is the church. Can we agree on this?

So, we have:

lampstand = temple/church
2 Olive trees = 2 nations

Today Israel is only one nation so we need to find another nation. Again, which nation has a lot of Jews and Christians and stands with Israel? There were two lampstands at their most recent meeting but you can only see one in this picture.

No offense to Canada but does Tudeau break out the candlesticks?

abcdef · Feb 25, 2017

Locutus said:

Gen 8:22, "While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease."

This shows that there is a time when all the things mentioned will cease.

What will be the event that causes these things to cease?

When will this event happen?

Rev 20:11, "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven flew away; and there was found no place for them."

The fire from heaven v 9, is the last event that takes place on this planet before the last judgement of souls.

Then this heaven and earth "fly away", into the endless void of space.

Then the new heavens and the new earth are seen, the old have passed away.

2 Cor 4:18, "....For the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal."

The old earth that we see now flies away, the new heaven and earth which are not seen now, are eternal.

Locutus · Feb 25, 2017

That's all very speculative PL:

"Compare how the Babylonians worshiped in Dan 3 but before you do, remember John called the Harlot (false religion) "Mystery Babylon." He did NOT call it "Mystery Jerusalem."

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

John is telling the followers of Jesus to "come out of her" - Babylon - ask yourself this, when did the Jews ever partake in the Mystery religion of Babylon/Islam?

But if we consider than many of the "Messianic's" (though believers) were still clinging to the temple and the Law:

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

They were told to come out of that system.

A proper understanding of Paul's midrash in Galatians will give the correct identity of Agars "children" - it has to be remembered that Paul is using the Agar and her children figuratively.

Gal 4:29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

Key statements there "at that time" and "so it is now"

Paul can hardly be saying the the persecuting Jews of the 1st century where the physical descendent's of Agar's son, rather they were acting in the same manner.

Paul compares the two covenants with Agar being figuratively used as the Sinaitic covenant - Ishmael was never under that covenant:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem WHICH NOW IS, and is in bondage with her children.

I honestly don't see how this clear language can be misunderstood.

Locutus · Feb 25, 2017

PlainWord said:

It's only a contradiction when "heaven and earth" is being misunderstood as the physical heaven and earth.

Josephus:

Antiquities Book 3 6:4

"As for the inside, Moses parted its length into three partitions. At the distance of ten cubits from the most secret end, Moses placed four pillars, the workmanship of which was the very same with that of the rest; and they stood upon the like bases with them, each a small matter distant from his fellow.

Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests.

However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God.

But the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this part is peculiar to the priests only.

Antiquities book 3 7:7

Now here one may wonder at the ill-will which men bear to us, and which they profess to bear on account of our despising that Deity which they pretend to honor; for if any one do but consider the fabric of the tabernacle, and take a view of the garments of the high priest, and of those vessels which we make use of in our sacred ministration, he will find that our legislator was a divine man, and that we are unjustly reproached by others; for if any one do without prejudice, and with judgment, look upon these things, he will find they were every one made in way of imitation and representation of the universe.

When Moses distinguished the tabernacle into three parts, and allowed two of them to the priests, as a place accessible and common, he denoted the land and the sea, these being of general access to all; but he set apart the third division for God, because heaven is inaccessible to men."

We can see the creation of "heaven and earth" in Isaiah:

Isa 51:15 But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name.

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

It was at the giving of the Law to Moses (my words) that the "heavens and earth" of the Israelites was created and said "Thou art my people" - he never said this in regards to the Genesis creation account.

Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

Lev 26:12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

The "heaven and earth" of the Israelites did pass away in the 1st century AD, and Jesus' words are still with us today.

Are you preterist or merely 'modified post-trib'?

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