Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004
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Where in the bible does it say that getting baptized removes all our sins up to that point? 
Something about that doesn't compute in my brain.. I always thought that getting saved and repenting, removes our sin from us. After all, repenting is confessing your sins, and receiving forgiveness.
If I'm wrong, tell me because I'm stupid on alot of things..lol
Something about that doesn't compute in my brain.. I always thought that getting saved and repenting, removes our sin from us. After all, repenting is confessing your sins, and receiving forgiveness.If I'm wrong, tell me because I'm stupid on alot of things..lol
My bad. Sorry.
I was thinking of Acts 2:38 and Acts 22:16
Acts 2:38 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 22:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’
However, you're right. We are saved at the point of repentance and acceptance of the Lord's sacrifice.
I DO NOT believe that one must be baptized to be saved.
But of coure, it is one of the Lord's commandments.
Mathew 28:19
I bet you can't get this in Walmart
Isaiah 55:1-3
“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
Isaiah 55:1-3
“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
That's so sweet of you.
We should be sweet.
I should apologize to dcontroversal.
I know I must get on his nerves.
And where's Blue?
Am I the only girl on these threads??
We should be sweet.
I should apologize to dcontroversal.
I know I must get on his nerves.
And where's Blue?
Am I the only girl on these threads??
Here is an article that looks at 2 Tim. 2:11-13. I like to use this website from time to time as it tackles some "seemingly" conflicting obscure scriptures. It has a place at the bottom of the article where people can ask questions. I have often learned a lot from these questions as many of us have the same ones.
This article is NOT for those that have made up their minds that Jesus leaves us for whatever reason we can come up with in our own natural human thinking - it is for those that are open to listen to the Holy Spirit within them reveal the beauty of their Lord. He is faithful to us.
What If I Deny Jesus? (2 Timothy 2:11–13)
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.” (2 Tim. 2:11–13)
This is a trustworthy saying that comes in two parts and both parts are trustworthy for the simple reason that Jesus is trustworthy, even when you’re not.
Destined to reign in life
The first part of the trustworthy saying begins like this: “If we died with him.” The Christian life begins at death. This is what makes the gospel unique. Every manmade religion preaches self-denial and dying to self, but the gospel simply declares, “You died.”
But more than that, we died, so that Christ might live through us. It’s an if-then statement. If A, then B. “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20).
“But wait,” says Paul. “There’s more. This trustworthy saying comes with bonus features. We don’t merely live, we also endure and reign.” This new life we have in Christ is a new kind of life characterized by supernatural endurance and reigning in all things.
If Paul had said, “Work hard and endure and maybe you will get to reign,” that would be nothing special or trustworthy. That’s how the world works. But it’s not how the kingdom works.
Verse 12 follows right after verse 11. Paul is describing the life we have in union with the One who already overcame, already endured, and who now reigns. “This life we have in Christ is an enduring and reigning life,” says Paul. “It’s like nothing on earth.”
Do you see? In the first part of the trustworthy saying, Paul is giving us a three-part punchline. “You know you died with Christ, right?” Yes, Paul, I know. “Well do you also know that you will live with Christ?” Sure, Paul, in heaven. “No, not just in heaven, but here and now. You will endure here. You will reign in life here. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves your full acceptance.” Oh, I didn’t know that Paul. That’s really good news!
Many Christians are looking forward to a future life with Christ but they are not ruling and reigning with him here and now. They don’t know they can. They’ve been told life is one big test and maybe, if they are careful, they’ll get a crown at the end. But the abundant life Christ promised is experienced by those who know and trust him now.
What if I disown Jesus?
This brings us to the second part of the passage: “If we disown him, he will also disown us.” The King James says, “If we deny him, he will deny us” (v.12) which is a better translation since it’s the same word Jesus uses in Matthew 10:33.
An insecure believer worries, What if I deny Jesus in a moment of weakness? But Paul is not talking about this. He is not talking about Christians at all, but those who reject Christ and will one day reap the consequences of their choice. There’s no grace for the faithless because the faithless will not receive it. If you don’t believe God is good to you, you will have difficulty experiencing his goodness.
Do you see? There are those who confess Christ and those who deny him. If you have denied him, you may yet confess him, but if you have confessed him, you cannot deny him – at least not to the point where he would deny you.
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (2 Tim 2:13)
This verse has been used to sow fear into the hearts of the saints. “If you are not constant in your faith every single day, if you disown Jesus just one time, God will punish you!” It’s as if the preceding verses weren’t even there. It’s as if your unfaithfulness (or sin) was greater than his faithfulness (or grace). Hear that slap? That’s the Apostle Paul doing a face-palm!
To recap, Paul says if we die with Christ, we will live, endure, and reign with him. Each follows the other and this is a trustworthy saying.
Will Jesus deny me?
So why does Paul start talking about disowning and denying in the second part of the passage? He does it to reinforce his point which is that Christ is trustworthy. Here’s the punchline: since Christ cannot disown himself, Christ cannot disown you! Not ever. You are one with the Lord. His future is your future and his future is very good!
Keep reminding them of these things… (2 Tim 2:14)
Dead religion says you have to perform and endure to be saved, but the gospel of grace says we stand on Christ alone. He is our rock, and our sure foundation. We stand on his promises, not ours.
Do you see? The unbeliever falls on account of his faithlessness, but we stand on account of Christ’s faithfulness. Even if you have a bad day, or a moment of faithlessness, he remains utterly faithful, for he cannot disown himself. This is a trustworthy saying!
We who have acknowledged Christ before others cannot unacknowledge him. We who have died with Christ cannot un-die. We who have been born again cannot be unborn. If you were to deny him, as Peter did three times, Jesus won’t disown you, for he cannot disown himself.
Here is the link if anyone wants to read the questions at the bottom.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/07/23/what-if-i-deny-jesus-2-timothy-2v12/
This article is NOT for those that have made up their minds that Jesus leaves us for whatever reason we can come up with in our own natural human thinking - it is for those that are open to listen to the Holy Spirit within them reveal the beauty of their Lord. He is faithful to us.
What If I Deny Jesus? (2 Timothy 2:11–13)
Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.” (2 Tim. 2:11–13)
This is a trustworthy saying that comes in two parts and both parts are trustworthy for the simple reason that Jesus is trustworthy, even when you’re not.
Destined to reign in life
The first part of the trustworthy saying begins like this: “If we died with him.” The Christian life begins at death. This is what makes the gospel unique. Every manmade religion preaches self-denial and dying to self, but the gospel simply declares, “You died.”
But more than that, we died, so that Christ might live through us. It’s an if-then statement. If A, then B. “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me” (Gal. 2:20).
“But wait,” says Paul. “There’s more. This trustworthy saying comes with bonus features. We don’t merely live, we also endure and reign.” This new life we have in Christ is a new kind of life characterized by supernatural endurance and reigning in all things.
If Paul had said, “Work hard and endure and maybe you will get to reign,” that would be nothing special or trustworthy. That’s how the world works. But it’s not how the kingdom works.
Verse 12 follows right after verse 11. Paul is describing the life we have in union with the One who already overcame, already endured, and who now reigns. “This life we have in Christ is an enduring and reigning life,” says Paul. “It’s like nothing on earth.”
Do you see? In the first part of the trustworthy saying, Paul is giving us a three-part punchline. “You know you died with Christ, right?” Yes, Paul, I know. “Well do you also know that you will live with Christ?” Sure, Paul, in heaven. “No, not just in heaven, but here and now. You will endure here. You will reign in life here. This is a trustworthy saying that deserves your full acceptance.” Oh, I didn’t know that Paul. That’s really good news!
Many Christians are looking forward to a future life with Christ but they are not ruling and reigning with him here and now. They don’t know they can. They’ve been told life is one big test and maybe, if they are careful, they’ll get a crown at the end. But the abundant life Christ promised is experienced by those who know and trust him now.
What if I disown Jesus?
This brings us to the second part of the passage: “If we disown him, he will also disown us.” The King James says, “If we deny him, he will deny us” (v.12) which is a better translation since it’s the same word Jesus uses in Matthew 10:33.
An insecure believer worries, What if I deny Jesus in a moment of weakness? But Paul is not talking about this. He is not talking about Christians at all, but those who reject Christ and will one day reap the consequences of their choice. There’s no grace for the faithless because the faithless will not receive it. If you don’t believe God is good to you, you will have difficulty experiencing his goodness.
Do you see? There are those who confess Christ and those who deny him. If you have denied him, you may yet confess him, but if you have confessed him, you cannot deny him – at least not to the point where he would deny you.
If we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. (2 Tim 2:13)
This verse has been used to sow fear into the hearts of the saints. “If you are not constant in your faith every single day, if you disown Jesus just one time, God will punish you!” It’s as if the preceding verses weren’t even there. It’s as if your unfaithfulness (or sin) was greater than his faithfulness (or grace). Hear that slap? That’s the Apostle Paul doing a face-palm!
To recap, Paul says if we die with Christ, we will live, endure, and reign with him. Each follows the other and this is a trustworthy saying.
Will Jesus deny me?
So why does Paul start talking about disowning and denying in the second part of the passage? He does it to reinforce his point which is that Christ is trustworthy. Here’s the punchline: since Christ cannot disown himself, Christ cannot disown you! Not ever. You are one with the Lord. His future is your future and his future is very good!
Keep reminding them of these things… (2 Tim 2:14)
Dead religion says you have to perform and endure to be saved, but the gospel of grace says we stand on Christ alone. He is our rock, and our sure foundation. We stand on his promises, not ours.
Do you see? The unbeliever falls on account of his faithlessness, but we stand on account of Christ’s faithfulness. Even if you have a bad day, or a moment of faithlessness, he remains utterly faithful, for he cannot disown himself. This is a trustworthy saying!
We who have acknowledged Christ before others cannot unacknowledge him. We who have died with Christ cannot un-die. We who have been born again cannot be unborn. If you were to deny him, as Peter did three times, Jesus won’t disown you, for he cannot disown himself.
Here is the link if anyone wants to read the questions at the bottom.
https://escapetoreality.org/2014/07/23/what-if-i-deny-jesus-2-timothy-2v12/
I am OSAS but I am not a greasy gracer.
Having looked at the posts in this thread which to be honest is a topic that has been hotly debated for goodness how long (and over the years there have been many more) I have noticed what seems to be responses that are actually quite harsh.
The problem is when we look at words all we see are words which may not have been in the manner they may have been said if we were sat next the poster/response who actually was speaking those words.
I think what what we all need to remember is that when we post or reply we should be doing it to put accross what we believe in the way that we believe what we do.
let us never post or reply because we want to prove someone wrong because we do not want to be wrong.
The bible we have is given to us to reveal God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Gods plan from the beginning of time his redemption and how it works.
It is also used for correction and reproof. All of us must ensure that we are open to correction.
At the end of the day there will be stuff that we disagree on, and both sides can quote bible verses to defend their position.
That being the case then we will have to agree to disagree. If so let's do it in love.
What we must remember is that we will all stand before God and every word, action will be revealed.
What have built on? What will the fire reveal?
It will not only reveal what we have said but also why we said it.
Just my limited thoughts.
Having looked at the posts in this thread which to be honest is a topic that has been hotly debated for goodness how long (and over the years there have been many more) I have noticed what seems to be responses that are actually quite harsh.
The problem is when we look at words all we see are words which may not have been in the manner they may have been said if we were sat next the poster/response who actually was speaking those words.
I think what what we all need to remember is that when we post or reply we should be doing it to put accross what we believe in the way that we believe what we do.
let us never post or reply because we want to prove someone wrong because we do not want to be wrong.
The bible we have is given to us to reveal God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Gods plan from the beginning of time his redemption and how it works.
It is also used for correction and reproof. All of us must ensure that we are open to correction.
At the end of the day there will be stuff that we disagree on, and both sides can quote bible verses to defend their position.
That being the case then we will have to agree to disagree. If so let's do it in love.
What we must remember is that we will all stand before God and every word, action will be revealed.
What have built on? What will the fire reveal?
It will not only reveal what we have said but also why we said it.
Just my limited thoughts.
Well. I don't know.
One of your posts from today had some PRETTY BIG printing on it!!
I was tired from working and never should have gotten on this thread.
I called you Mr. Marine Man. I apologize to you for that and also any armed services people who might have read that.
I love them all and did not mean it in a disrespectful way.
I'm usually cool---right?
So we disagree. We could make our points without getting all bent out of shape.
I've loved Jesus for many years now. You don't know all He's done for me.
I know well the love and Grace of God.
I'm just afraid that some new Christian will think he could just walk away from Him.
So I'll Always debate you on this, but in
Peace.
One of your posts from today had some PRETTY BIG printing on it!!
I was tired from working and never should have gotten on this thread.
I called you Mr. Marine Man. I apologize to you for that and also any armed services people who might have read that.
I love them all and did not mean it in a disrespectful way.
I'm usually cool---right?
So we disagree. We could make our points without getting all bent out of shape.
I've loved Jesus for many years now. You don't know all He's done for me.
I know well the love and Grace of God.
I'm just afraid that some new Christian will think he could just walk away from Him.
So I'll Always debate you on this, but in
Peace.
You did not offend me by the Marine Man comment....when I was in there were only 220,000 Marines in the world and I was one....and yeah I did use big letters...only because you were having a hard time seeing what I had written....HAH
Sure....and what you said equally applies to me as well...the Lord has delivered me from much..........I have no issue with you other than one can lose salvation....not biblical
Frieden
Sure....and what you said equally applies to me as well...the Lord has delivered me from much..........I have no issue with you other than one can lose salvation....not biblical
Frieden
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This view of righteousness is righteousness outside the cleansing of Jesus's blood
and love and communion in the heart of the believer.
It is funny how to quote scripture from the OT is old covenant, yet this is exactly
the view being taken here for new covenant righteousness.
So your own argument is shot to pieces by your own logic
and love and communion in the heart of the believer.
It is funny how to quote scripture from the OT is old covenant, yet this is exactly
the view being taken here for new covenant righteousness.
So your own argument is shot to pieces by your own logic
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in itthe righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in itthe righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
Reverse theology
A lot of guys here were once card carrying obedience advocates.
It appears for one reason or another a brick wall appeared and they could not get over
it. So then they thought, hey maybe God never called me to obedience but to acknowledge
failure in my walk, and I should not expect anything except that which He does in me.
Wow. I feel so accepted and loved. I am no longer under condemnation but saved.
Hey my driven nature before was driven by a lie, that obedience matters and is wrapped
up with salvation. That is the biggest deception everrrrrr, I must wage war against those
who are sending everyone to hell because of it.
I was never one of these guys or into obedience for its own sake. I have always been into
Jesus and His stunning love, which overwhelmed my soul, and transformed me.
Obedience is the outworking of this love, the true expression of loving others. To disobey
is a measure of how far this love still has to go in ones heart.
This is why I know, beyond any doubt, those who talk against Jesus's words do not know
Him and have not opened their hearts, and love is not on their throne.
It is really that simple.
The beatitudes are a statement of security in God.
Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.
We have Heaven. We do not need false celebration, or glorying in the things of man,
or alcohol, or wealth or status. We are just aware of our need in Christ, our walk of
peace, the place of love and fulfilment.
This world is such a sad place, of great struggles and loss, mourning is our heart,
empathising with those who have truly lost ones they love.
And so it goes on, for this is the way of Jesus our Lord. I invite you to bow before
His throne and His cross and learn from Him the way of humbleness.
A lot of guys here were once card carrying obedience advocates.
It appears for one reason or another a brick wall appeared and they could not get over
it. So then they thought, hey maybe God never called me to obedience but to acknowledge
failure in my walk, and I should not expect anything except that which He does in me.
Wow. I feel so accepted and loved. I am no longer under condemnation but saved.
Hey my driven nature before was driven by a lie, that obedience matters and is wrapped
up with salvation. That is the biggest deception everrrrrr, I must wage war against those
who are sending everyone to hell because of it.
I was never one of these guys or into obedience for its own sake. I have always been into
Jesus and His stunning love, which overwhelmed my soul, and transformed me.
Obedience is the outworking of this love, the true expression of loving others. To disobey
is a measure of how far this love still has to go in ones heart.
This is why I know, beyond any doubt, those who talk against Jesus's words do not know
Him and have not opened their hearts, and love is not on their throne.
It is really that simple.
The beatitudes are a statement of security in God.
Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.
We have Heaven. We do not need false celebration, or glorying in the things of man,
or alcohol, or wealth or status. We are just aware of our need in Christ, our walk of
peace, the place of love and fulfilment.
This world is such a sad place, of great struggles and loss, mourning is our heart,
empathising with those who have truly lost ones they love.
And so it goes on, for this is the way of Jesus our Lord. I invite you to bow before
His throne and His cross and learn from Him the way of humbleness.
W
It is a free gift in that every person is by nature endowed with the gift of grace unto salvation, Titus 2-11, John 1-9, in that they have the natural ability to respond with sound reasoning to the gospel when the hear it "faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word". Its that parable of the sower thing, you know, the field is the world...The Holy Spirit is working overtime 24/7 convicting the lost and calling people to repentance and righteousness, John 16-8.
How is it that Cornelius was already obeying God? Even before Peter came to him from Jappa. So much so, that his prayers and good works came up before God who justified him..Remember God does not hear the prayers of active sinners.
Your gospel is built on the false premise of inability and everything you add to it will expand the falsehood..(the lie becomes bigger and bigger)
How is it that Cornelius was already obeying God? Even before Peter came to him from Jappa. So much so, that his prayers and good works came up before God who justified him..Remember God does not hear the prayers of active sinners.
Your gospel is built on the false premise of inability and everything you add to it will expand the falsehood..(the lie becomes bigger and bigger)
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