My understanding is that before Jesus death burial and reserection not a sole was worthy of Gods presence. Godly people before Jesus went to Purgatory. Looking for scripture one way or the other.
Did any earthly human join God in Heaven before Jesus?
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"Soul Sleep" is NOT taught in the Scriptures, it is the body that "sleeps" NOT the soul! Matt 27v52, Luke 16v19-31, 2Cor 5v1,6-8, Phil 1v21-23, 1Peter 3v18-20
Jesus said, No one has ever gone into heaven except
the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man. John 3:13
Where do you see purgatory in Scripture? That is a Roman Catholic teaching. https://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html <~ See that page for an explanation on
how the RCC teaching of purgatory is wrong
The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1,14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin, or sins committed before salvation, is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must in any sense pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins – that indicates Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.
Here is a thread on that with scripture...
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...e-were-o-t-saints-before-christ-had-come.html
R
ROSSELLA
Guest
Some people did go to Heaven.
Hebrews 11:5, "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God."
2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus talks about Abraham being in Heaven.
Obviously they couldn't have faith that Jesus died for their sins since it hadn't happened yet. However, the people mentioned as going to Heaven are men of faith. I can't be sure how it worked or how God decided, but I'm guessing either faith in God and His goodness and mercy, faith that God would send the Messiah to save us, or both. However it worked, the Bible does mention people who lived before Christ being in Heaven.
Hebrews 11:5, "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death, and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was commended as having pleased God."
2 Kings 2:11, "And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
The parable of the rich man and Lazarus talks about Abraham being in Heaven.
Obviously they couldn't have faith that Jesus died for their sins since it hadn't happened yet. However, the people mentioned as going to Heaven are men of faith. I can't be sure how it worked or how God decided, but I'm guessing either faith in God and His goodness and mercy, faith that God would send the Messiah to save us, or both. However it worked, the Bible does mention people who lived before Christ being in Heaven.
No it doesn't, Heaven is NOT mentioned in those verses, but Hades is, Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were in Hades, NOT Heaven!
A few thoughts on death and eternal judgement can be found Here
The O.T. saints were not in Heaven yet. Why is that?
John 3:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
So that means...Enoch and Ezekiel were taken to the upper atmosphere but not to the Heaven where God dwells.
It is very possible that those two are being traveled through time to the great tribulation period by God to serve as His two witnesses for that great tribulation... since they are going to die, & be resurrected to rebuke them.
S
StanJ
Guest
The Godly persons destiny after death is Paradise, not heaven. Luke 16:19-31, 23:43.
When Jesus returns he will bring all those souls with Him to be reunited with their bodies at the great resurrection. We will then begin our eternal existence as an immortal being. 1 Thess 4:13-18.
There is no Purgatory, that is the false teaching of the RCC.
enoch never died He was translated and walked away with God, and elijah never died He was taken by a whirlwind to heaven.
It is not until after judgement day that any mankind will be with God in heaven. We go to Abraham's side in Paradise (the 3rd heaven) until then. This is why the new heaven will be new- because God and man will dwell together.
Genesis 5:24 "Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away."
Hebrews 11:5 "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. "
2 kings 2:11 "And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."
S
StanJ
Guest
You are right about these two not having died but they didn't go to heaven either. Nobody is sure where they went because the Bible doesn't tell us. Hebrews 9:27 states we are all appointed once to die and then the judgement and I believe that Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation that will die.
[h=1]Matthew 11:10-12Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
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[h=1]Luke 7:27-29Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
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[h=1]Luke 23:42-44Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
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[h=1]2 Corinthians 12:3-5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
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[h=1]Revelation 2:6-7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
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[h=1]Genesis 5:23-24Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
(Remember...He who was, is, and is to come)
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[h=1]Hebrews 11:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(obviously there is a realm/place called not) (probably something to do with not experienced....if that makes any sense...)
(then there is Psalm 139....)
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[h=1]Psalm 139:7-12Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 even there shall thy hand lead me,
and thy right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me;
even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day:
the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[h=1]2 Corinthians 12:1-4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
The point I'm trying to make is that there are many places written about that can be found in the AKJV Bible. If we look at the writings of Enoch....then we read about Abels Jail....
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[h=1]Hebrews 11:3-4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
You can read about some places enoch wrote of by viewing this link.......
The Book of Enoch: Enoch's Journeys through the Earth and Sheol: Chapter XXII
Anyhow....
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[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 7:27-29Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 23:42-44Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.[/FONT]
[FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="]44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
[/FONT]
[h=1]2 Corinthians 12:3-5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.[/FONT]
[h=1]Revelation 2:6-7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Genesis 5:23-24Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]23 and all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
(Remember...He who was, is, and is to come)
[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 11:4-6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(obviously there is a realm/place called not) (probably something to do with not experienced....if that makes any sense...)
(then there is Psalm 139....)
[/FONT]
[h=1]Psalm 139:7-12Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="][/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 even there shall thy hand lead me,
and thy right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me;
even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day:
the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[h=1]2 Corinthians 12:1-4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.The point I'm trying to make is that there are many places written about that can be found in the AKJV Bible. If we look at the writings of Enoch....then we read about Abels Jail....
[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 11:3-4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)[/h][FONT="]3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
You can read about some places enoch wrote of by viewing this link.......
The Book of Enoch: Enoch's Journeys through the Earth and Sheol: Chapter XXII
Anyhow....
[/FONT]