Methinks this thread has gotten completely off topic. May I suggest that one of you start a new thread to discuss the tongues issue, or at least drop discussing it here.
I left one to come here, and here we go again, and again, and again, and again.
Women Pastors? Help me.
- Thread starter DevonS
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I left one to come here, and here we go again, and again, and again, and again.
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StanJ
Guest
No one seeks speaking in tongues, it's just like salvation, you believe and you receive. Whatever you and your wife did you did wrong period but I'm not surprised because you keep on coming up with the wrong conclusions on this thread. If you don't accept what the Bible said and what Paul said and what Peter said about the Holy Spirit then that's your problem and you ought to ask God why you can't believe. You obviously can't have the Holy Spirit in you if you've never receive the baptism of the holy spirit so I'm afraid the voice you were listening to was definitely not of God. Remember who appears as an angel of Light.
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LClark
Guest
Here is an online resource with articles on 1 Timothy, I Do Not Permit… | The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) etc, by noted, evangelical, New Testament Scholars and others 50 Crucial Questions | The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW)
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StanJ
Guest
The CBMW has always been against inclusive and egalitarian language in the Bible even when it is clearly evident in the scripture. Wayne Grudem is one of the founders of this group and is a notorious complimentarianism who was the General Editor of the ESV Study Bible which never translates the Greek Word ἀδελφός (adelphos) as anything but 'brother', even though it is properly translated as 'brethren' or 'brother' & sister'. The Greek word connotes a member of the Christian Community in the New Testament, not just a male member.
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Dagallen
Guest
Just was wondering, can a woman over see and teach a women's and children's ministry, according to scriptures ?
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StanJ
Guest
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Dagallen
Guest
Let's assume they could not teach men but they can teach women and children and if there 500 that attends a church and 300 are women and children, where is a woman going to teach such a large group, to the men, is a woman going to teach such a large group out behind the barn, where no men are allow to attend ? I think men are just hard core or hard headed.
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StanJ
Guest
Sorry, but I'm not a really big proponent of hypothetical situations. The Bible deals with real time issues. There is no doubt many men are hard headed but that is the human condition and applies to women as well. Thankfully hard headedness is not unforgivable.
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Dagallen
Guest
I can agree both sides carry their own short fall. Men however has been persuaders of force, as women has been persuaders of mercy but I think it is so mixed now, that both are falling short and can no longer reason with one another, I am a man but I am not a persuader of force for good reasons.
Oldhermit said, "But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.”(And this is an unqualified statement that offers NO exceptions.)"
Let's be clear. There is an exception to the wives submit (obey) your husbands instruction, and that exception is sin. Husbands have absolutely no right, authority or business commanding their wives to sin.Wives are not obligated to obey sinful commands given by their husbands. Christ (our bridegroom) never commands us (his church and bride) to sin.
1.) Woman represents God too. God has many names and many attributes. God Himself is called our Helper (Ezer in Hebrew):
Behold, God is my helper (Ps 54:4a).
In the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is also called our Helper: John 14:17, 26. Considering God’s role as Helper puts things in perspective. God, Almighty Sovereign Lord of the Universe, is our Helper, and women are created in his image to be helpers in their marriages, families and communities. What's the point? Women also represent God; that's not limited or restricted to men. That fact very often gets left out of the conversation on symbolism.
2.) Men also represent the church (bride of Christ). After all, the church (bride of Christ) is made up of men and women - not just women. Male believers are also part of the bride of Christ (church). That symbolism isn't restricted to women and wives. It also applies to male believers too. That's another fact that so often gets left out of the conversation about symbolism. Christian men don't stop representing the church (bride of Christ) when and if they become husbands.
3.) If we want to talk about Biblical symbolism, BOTH man and woman represent God. BOTH man and woman represent the church (bride of Christ). It's not either or; it's both.
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StanJ
Guest
The church is not the bride of Christ it is the body of Christ. The bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem.
No, you have to twist meanings, and trivialize or flat ignore clear COMMANDS from GOD to see it that way.
The bride of Christ is the New Jerusalem,and all that is within,including the saints.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit,and the bride,saints,say,Come,partake of the kingdom of God.
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StanJ
Guest
LOL, oh come on, LOL. It has been quite awhile since I have seen someone fall for that fallacy.
Revelation 22:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
TheCITY can say NOTHING, but the inhabitants of the CITY can say Come.
John 14:2-3 (ESV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
That is word for word what a Bridegroom says as HE prepares to leave the Bride's old dwelling place, after she accepted the Proposal of Marriage. The Proposal is NEVER VERBAL according to a Jewish Traditions. The man seeking a Bride comes to a family sit down supper, and at some time during the coarse of the meal HE pours a cup of wine and sits it down in from of the Bride. If she drinks from the cup, she is accepting the Proposal, if she does not drink from the cup, she is rejecting his Proposal. The third cup of the Passover meal was OUR PROPOSAL CUP, and the DISCIPLES accepted for all of us when they drank from the cup.
Matthew 9:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And Jesus said to them, "The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast.
Matthew 25:1-13 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. [ The Holy Spirit in us is the Oil ]
[SUP]5 [/SUP] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Please read the opening post on this thread. You will learn a great deal about Bride and Bridegroom. Most of what wrote in that Post, I learned for Zola Levitt, an Orthodox Jew who was led to accept JESUS as the Messiah.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/95283-calling-out-bride-go-wedding-lamb.html
So what does the JEWISH EXPRESSION to Adorn a dwelling place as a Bride actually mean. Even you should be able to figure it out from the pictures of these Jewish weddings in a house. A picture is worth a thousand words, and Jewish Tradition, it was the Bridegroom's Father's house that was adorned like a Bride:
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