I, Robot

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Depleted

Guest
#101
#101
notmyown said:
would God call it a robot? would humans recognize it if they saw it?

maybe this 'robot' would love what God loves, and hate what He hates.
maybe this robot would adore and worship God because He is worthy of that.
maybe this robot would always and only do God's will from love for God and sheer delight to do it.

maybe i will be fully conformed to such a robot One Day.
i have a Living Hope. :)
Click to expand...
If robotedness is the ability to always do God's will, then maybe the angels are robots. :)
 
M

Miri

Guest
#102
#102
There is another quirky way of seeing this. Apart from the wizard of oz. :)

To some degree we are all indoctrinated by our parents and their habits.
We do things in a certain way because our parents did it that way.
We think things in a certain way because our parents did.
We place value on certain things because our parents did,
Our parents made us robots but we still have free will.

Father God wants us to live His way and indoctrinate us. He wants us to do what He says.
He wants us to think His way, and He guide us into that way. Sometimes with a bit more
force than we would like. Sort of get to bed now, eat your dinner, stop playing in the mud,
you are grounded for a year etc.

Boy wasn't Jonah grounded for 3 days or what. Lol

And Paul he didn't just get a slap, he was zapped.


So just like our parents want us to do as we are told, for our own good - don't run into the road.
God wants us to do His will - don't commit murder.

Yes we have free will, but God is certainly able to exercise His will, changing hearts and minds
in the process.

The difference is God loves us with an everlasting love. He knows if we run into the road,
that a blooming great truck will squish us to a pancake at that very moment. So yes, we have
free will but God also exercises His will.

He wont let that lost sheep stay lost!
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#103
Jul 31, 2013
36,863
13,197
113
#103

we love because He first loved us

​
new operating parameters have been downloaded and installed
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#104
Jul 31, 2013
36,863
13,197
113
#104
Miri said:
He wont let that lost sheep stay lost!
Click to expand...

the sheep's free will is what got it lost in the first place

and it's because of His election that He seeks it out and brings it back again
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#105
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
113
76
#105
Depleted said:
I truly believe God elected me. I absolutely know I never "made a decision to invite Christ into my heart." No one ever told me I should and I wasn't in a place in my life where I would have gone okey-dokey had someone suggested such a thing. I didn't choose Jesus anymore than Jonah chose to go where God told him to go. Obviously, at some point I got (and am getting) where God wanted me to go, but I never, ever chose God.

And because of that, people keep telling me that I think God is a robot maker or a puppeteer. Let me settle at least that much and allow me the choice "robot." I am God's robot?

I don't get that. For those of you who think the two choices are "Man chooses God" or "Man is a robot," would you please explain that to me? I keep asking people who say things like that, but never get a clear answer. (Usually I get absolutely no answer.) So, if you are the kind of person who thinks either we choose God or we are robots, would you please explain to me why I am a robot?
Click to expand...

I was reading a book by the late Derek Prince lately. I dont know if you know of him but he was very popular here and had long connections with a ministry to Israel. He was writing about Israel being chosen by God and went on to say that we are all chosen by him since before the foundation of the world. He chooses us completely through his sovereign grace not because we deserve it or are better than anyone else. He cited the story of Jacob and Esau as an example Before they were born they had done nothing bad or good but God chose Jacob over Esau. Also where Jesus said You did not choose me but I chose you. However he expects us to make a response in that we agree to his choice. It is like when Israel was given the covenant through Moses they had to agree to it. My answer to you is you are not a Robot but you didnt choose God either. God chose you but you agreed with his choice. A positive response to his choice though commits us to a life of obedience to him. The history of Israel teaches us what happens when we continue to obey God and when we dont.
Derek Prince had a long and eventful life in service to God and to Israel he wrote about fifty books and there are a large number of tapes and videos. I had the privilege of hearing him speak once at a Christian Conference. He died in 2003
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#106
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#106
Depleted said:
If robotedness is the ability to always do God's will, then maybe the angels are robots. :)
Click to expand...
You confuse the word robot. A robot is just a machine. We are in machines, but not machines plain and simple. It is the programming that you need to be concerned with. This machine has programming to survive and procreate. Every part of this machine sends signals to the brain which is the computer. The computer analyzes the data. We also receive data from God, "spiritually". This data is also analyzed in the brain. We are our souls, the part that is eternal. The brain ignores data that doesn't make sense, it is always trying to rationalize. When we believe that Christ is the Son of the Most High and that our sins are forgiven, and that we are New Creations, then our brain can analyze this information and process it. It then can understand that most sin is a result of the programming from the machine and that data becomes less significant in our decision making. We do not have to respond to the data of the flesh. We choose to because it sends pleasure signals to the brain, or to ignore pain signals to the brain. We choose who our master is. We can either respond to every pleasure because that is the machine's programming for survival, or obedience to an Almighty Father. Who we choose to call Master or Lord in this life will determine our fate in the life to come. If we choose Almighty God, then He can build us a new machine, not corruptible. If we choose to serve the flesh then we are lost for eternity, without a body. The soul was designed to inhabit a body. That is how we experience things.
 
M

MadebyHim

Senior Member
#107
Dec 17, 2016
572
15
0
#107
When my youngest was a toddler he loved watching barney, that purple dinosaur. Whenever it would come on, my little guy would jump in mine or moms lap, and we would sing the song barney sang, i love you, you love me, were best friends like friends should be. In my mind i hope that God feels the love from me that i felt in my boy. i don't feel like a robot, just a child that loves his Daddy.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#108
#108
tanakh said:
I was reading a book by the late Derek Prince lately. I dont know if you know of him but he was very popular here and had long connections with a ministry to Israel. He was writing about Israel being chosen by God and went on to say that we are all chosen by him since before the foundation of the world. He chooses us completely through his sovereign grace not because we deserve it or are better than anyone else. He cited the story of Jacob and Esau as an example Before they were born they had done nothing bad or good but God chose Jacob over Esau. Also where Jesus said You did not choose me but I chose you. However he expects us to make a response in that we agree to his choice. It is like when Israel was given the covenant through Moses they had to agree to it. My answer to you is you are not a Robot but you didnt choose God either. God chose you but you agreed with his choice. A positive response to his choice though commits us to a life of obedience to him. The history of Israel teaches us what happens when we continue to obey God and when we dont.
Derek Prince had a long and eventful life in service to God and to Israel he wrote about fifty books and there are a large number of tapes and videos. I had the privilege of hearing him speak once at a Christian Conference. He died in 2003
Click to expand...
I sometimes talk about a church hubby and I met in, and how a charlatan of the Jimmy Jones variety wrecked havoc on it right before I joined. (I joined in the aftermath.) It was sort of a nondenom but there were The Big Five -- five men who took the reigns to "disciple" a variety of those kinds of churches across the country. Derek Prince was one of the Big Five.

He did nothing to encourage the charlatan. But after the church exploded, he also did nothing to say that the charlatan was wrong/evil/terrifying/etc. ... until ten years later, and then he did so quietly, so most folks who were abused by that charlatan never heard of the apology. (If it was even that, since it was so backhanded, it was hard to tell what he was saying.)

Then again, he was the only one of the Big Five who even acknowledged something terrible happened.

So, I have mixed feelings of Derek Prince.

But I also know where he got his theology. He was from the days when ministers were taught through reformed theology, even if they disagreed with it. Unlike today, at least they were taught through a base back then. He lived in the times when that was changing.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#109
#109
Hungry said:
You confuse the word robot. A robot is just a machine. We are in machines, but not machines plain and simple. It is the programming that you need to be concerned with. This machine has programming to survive and procreate. Every part of this machine sends signals to the brain which is the computer. The computer analyzes the data. We also receive data from God, "spiritually". This data is also analyzed in the brain. We are our souls, the part that is eternal. The brain ignores data that doesn't make sense, it is always trying to rationalize. When we believe that Christ is the Son of the Most High and that our sins are forgiven, and that we are New Creations, then our brain can analyze this information and process it. It then can understand that most sin is a result of the programming from the machine and that data becomes less significant in our decision making. We do not have to respond to the data of the flesh. We choose to because it sends pleasure signals to the brain, or to ignore pain signals to the brain. We choose who our master is. We can either respond to every pleasure because that is the machine's programming for survival, or obedience to an Almighty Father. Who we choose to call Master or Lord in this life will determine our fate in the life to come. If we choose Almighty God, then He can build us a new machine, not corruptible. If we choose to serve the flesh then we are lost for eternity, without a body. The soul was designed to inhabit a body. That is how we experience things.
Click to expand...
GIGO? :confused:
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#111
#111
Miri said:
There is another quirky way of seeing this. Apart from the wizard of oz. :)

To some degree we are all indoctrinated by our parents and their habits.
We do things in a certain way because our parents did it that way.
We think things in a certain way because our parents did.
We place value on certain things because our parents did,
Our parents made us robots but we still have free will.

Father God wants us to live His way and indoctrinate us. He wants us to do what He says.
He wants us to think His way, and He guide us into that way. Sometimes with a bit more
force than we would like. Sort of get to bed now, eat your dinner, stop playing in the mud,
you are grounded for a year etc.

Boy wasn't Jonah grounded for 3 days or what. Lol

And Paul he didn't just get a slap, he was zapped.


So just like our parents want us to do as we are told, for our own good - don't run into the road.
God wants us to do His will - don't commit murder.

Yes we have free will, but God is certainly able to exercise His will, changing hearts and minds
in the process.

The difference is God loves us with an everlasting love. He knows if we run into the road,
that a blooming great truck will squish us to a pancake at that very moment. So yes, we have
free will but God also exercises His will.

He wont let that lost sheep stay lost!
Click to expand...
When I was four, my cousin was born. I watched her growing up. When she was old enough to sit in a high chair and drink her bottle, she did the clutzy-baby move. Her hand jerked and the bottle went flying across the floor. I was four. I already knew clutzy wasn't well received, so I didn't want her to feel bad. That, and for one so young, she tossed it very far, so I was impressed with her strength. Between the two thoughts, I burst out laughing while scrambling for her bottle. And I gave it back to her still smiling. She thought this was hilarious, so she tossed it again and again, delighting that I'd keep getting it for her.

I taught her to be selfish, or she already knew how to be selfish. She found a way to gain attention for herself. Not evil, per se, but it was a selfish act. And one we all do from the moment we're born. I wasn't mad at her, but I remember wondering how to stop it, knowing she should be drinking the formula, not tossing the bottle. Drinking it was good for her. Tossing it was pointless, other than to gain attention.

I think we are born with a selfish nature. The result of the Fall? Probably, but we are born into it. It's the parent's job to teach us not to be so incredibly selfish. They definitely don't have to teach us to keep our focus on self. We were born into that.

And it is the opposite of what God would have us be. (Love him completely. Love others as ourselves.) We are capable of doing what God wants us to do. Without his prompt, we wouldn't though.

This goes back to a starving lion in a field of wheat. Cats are not carnivores. They need plants too. They just don't get that, so they die younger than their life expectancy says they should because they only go after meat. A lion shouldn't starve in a field of wheat, and yet it never dawns on the lion to eat the wheat. They have the free will to eat the meat, and yet their very nature stops them from doing that. We are that lion. It is against our nature to be selfless. We have the free will to be selfless, it simply is against our sinful nature to be selfless.

And then God puts his supernature into us and we change.

The difference between believing we chose God and God chose us is very connected to that. The starving lion who does eat the wheat has something to boast about. A reason why he is different and worthy. We're the starving lion jonesing for a nice juicy wildebeest. And then God changed us to notice the wheat.

I knew that bottle should be consumed, not tossed. There was no way of getting that knowledge into my cousin.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#114
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,603
113
#114
If God was a mean, uncaring tyrant, I'd have been dead long ago. The fact I'm still here proves that He isn't a mean uncaring tyrant.. :)

Depleted said:
I'm not entirely sure you don't really believe that.
Click to expand...
 
G

GaryA

Guest
#115
#115
Depleted said:
I knew that bottle should be consumed, not tossed. There was no way of getting that knowledge into my cousin.
Click to expand...
Of course, there was --- just, not necessarily "in the next five minutes"... ;)

:)
 
H

Hungry

Banned
#118
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#118
GaryA said:
"Garbage In, Garbage Out"

:)
Click to expand...
Thanks. It took me many years of obsessively researching man and God to arrive at that garbage, but whatever. One man's trash is another man's treasure. My conclusions are soundly based in science and faith.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#119
#119
Hungry said:
Thanks. It took me many years of obsessively researching man and God to arrive at that garbage, but whatever. One man's trash is another man's treasure. My conclusions are soundly based in science and faith.
Click to expand...
Not as soundly as you think for either.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#120
#120
One of my brothers boldly proclaimed that no one should have governmental "entitlements" since "entitlement" meant the person was simply too lazy to work. I reminded my brother that I lived on entitlements.

He said, "I didn't mean you."

Apparently, he has yet to think out what he is saying, because he still says that nonsense.

I don't usually push whether God chose us or we chose God, because knowing which way that goes has never stopped God from doing his thing. He saves whomever he chooses to save, and doesn't unsave us simply because we have something about him thought out wrong. (Not to be confused that I never say it. I'd much rather boast on God's work in me than my work in me. I'd have to remain silent if I only boasted on me... and everyone knows, I'm no good with silence. lol)

A teaching elder once said, "I am 100% sure that what I believe is 100% true. I am equally sure I could be wrong."

I can agree with him completely, because I am 100% sure I don't have God figured out quite as much as I am sure I have him figured out; therefore, I'm going with we're all like that.

And yet, some will pull up the "either we chose God or God makes robots/puppets" card.

I've asked how I am a robot. Even those who believe they chose God won't call me a robot.

Sort of like my brother not meaning me when he talks about people living off the government entitlements.

Here's the thing. If it's not true for all, it's not true!

Two choices now:
1. Be consistent enough to tell me why I'm a robot, (or why PostHuman is a puppet.)
or
2. Stop using that as a debate technique.

Because if you do, that's a poor debate technique. Red herrings are poor debate techniques. And, it stinks as a teaching tool, if you can't even tell what it means to you.

Stop it or own it. Your choice.
 
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