Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer
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It is ridiculous to say future sins are not forgiven...last time I checked...Jesus paid the entire sin debt of humanity.....IT is finished = paid in full.....end of story....
Where sin abounds GRACE did much more abound<---written to saved, immersed church members.....
Ludicrous is a word that comes to mind.....
Where sin abounds GRACE did much more abound<---written to saved, immersed church members.....
Ludicrous is a word that comes to mind.....
If you have to be sinless to be saved...why does Paul address the "carnal" christians like he does in 1srt Corinthians. I think the rub I have with you Peter is that when someone steps across the line of faith you are putting a false expectation on them that they are instantly to be transformed. Sure....it works that way sometimes ...but rarely. It took me ten years to get right...and sadly...when I was struggling...if I would have seen your words in this thread then I would have lost all hope of ever being right.
The reality on the ground is that once a person becomes a disciple of Christ...it takes them an average of 7 years to get well...to get rid of the big sins in their lives. Now I don't know you...maybe you had a model upbringing where your dad perfectly modeled upright godly behavior to you. He treated you with love and kindness and built you up in your spirit. If that is you...I'm happy for you. GREAT!
That was not my experience. Mine was a minefield of confusion and disconnection. And my childhood was pretty mild compared to some. For you to tell people who are unbelievabley broken and confused that they have to be perfect.....when they've been told their whole lives that they are failures....completely and totally discounts the human side of us and that is a huge miscarriage of the gospel in my opinion.
The reality on the ground is that once a person becomes a disciple of Christ...it takes them an average of 7 years to get well...to get rid of the big sins in their lives. Now I don't know you...maybe you had a model upbringing where your dad perfectly modeled upright godly behavior to you. He treated you with love and kindness and built you up in your spirit. If that is you...I'm happy for you. GREAT!
That was not my experience. Mine was a minefield of confusion and disconnection. And my childhood was pretty mild compared to some. For you to tell people who are unbelievabley broken and confused that they have to be perfect.....when they've been told their whole lives that they are failures....completely and totally discounts the human side of us and that is a huge miscarriage of the gospel in my opinion.
God is love right?
Was Jesus full of God's love when he drove the money changers out with a whip?
Was Jesus full of love when he called the self righteous hypocritical Pharisees blind leaders of the blind?
Was Jesus full of love when he called the Pharisees white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men?
Love and truth go hand in hand...and even a righteous rebuke can be made in love......
One thing men have no ability to judge is motive.....
Just saying....
Was Jesus full of God's love when he drove the money changers out with a whip?
Was Jesus full of love when he called the self righteous hypocritical Pharisees blind leaders of the blind?
Was Jesus full of love when he called the Pharisees white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men?
Love and truth go hand in hand...and even a righteous rebuke can be made in love......
One thing men have no ability to judge is motive.....
Just saying....
Well, you know, a lot of people find online is a good way to vent. But I think there are healthy ways to vent and unhealthy ways. If we vent by causing endless tirades of I'm right you are wrong (on both sides), it may 'feel fruitful emotionally' while you are in it, but it is when you are back by yourself that you may ask yourself, was it right to be that way? And it is that, which matters.
What is fruitful is taking the time, to learn something for ourselves, or to uplift others, guide others, but especially to be open-minded to others who are different (and we are all different and unique in our own way), and to be kind and accepting. And we should always rebuke evil - but not the man - that is the difference. You can love someone, and hate the evil in them, but to hate a person as the evil, this is not love, and it is not Gods way. We all have good things to say. We are all made in Gods image. But when life is a struggle, and we feel weak, and we get locked in judgement towards our life, ourselves, and then often to others, we find that we are only weakening ourselves, only to be in the same purgatory of it the next day.
If we love God, and we feel uplifted in that, then we should love others. If we feel angry at life, and maybe we are having a bad day, we should look to console rather than be angry at others. I like Francis Assisi's poem:
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.
What is fruitful is taking the time, to learn something for ourselves, or to uplift others, guide others, but especially to be open-minded to others who are different (and we are all different and unique in our own way), and to be kind and accepting. And we should always rebuke evil - but not the man - that is the difference. You can love someone, and hate the evil in them, but to hate a person as the evil, this is not love, and it is not Gods way. We all have good things to say. We are all made in Gods image. But when life is a struggle, and we feel weak, and we get locked in judgement towards our life, ourselves, and then often to others, we find that we are only weakening ourselves, only to be in the same purgatory of it the next day.
If we love God, and we feel uplifted in that, then we should love others. If we feel angry at life, and maybe we are having a bad day, we should look to console rather than be angry at others. I like Francis Assisi's poem:
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love.
Where there is injury, pardon.
Where there is doubt, faith.
Where there is despair, hope.
Where there is darkness, light.
Where there is sadness, joy.
O Divine Master,
grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood, as to understand;
to be loved, as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive.
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned,
and it is in dying that we are born to Eternal Life.
Amen.
Yes, Jesus was full of love. When people sinned, it is not that Jesus was hating the person, but he was hating the sin in him. And that is the greatest love. It seems so simple, but often people are hating the person and the sin, rather than the sin. This is what causes division and conflict.
Jesus cast out the demons, he did not cast out the person. If Jesus could bring the person back to life, so to say, that was the most important thing to him. Rather than building walls. He said love your enemies. To me it meant, the people that we 'see' as our enemies, as in the 'persons', we should be loving them, but not the sin in them that makes us also hate the person as an enemy.
And the truth of God is that, there are no enemies. It is evil and sin which is the enemy of God.
Jesus cast out the demons, he did not cast out the person. If Jesus could bring the person back to life, so to say, that was the most important thing to him. Rather than building walls. He said love your enemies. To me it meant, the people that we 'see' as our enemies, as in the 'persons', we should be loving them, but not the sin in them that makes us also hate the person as an enemy.
And the truth of God is that, there are no enemies. It is evil and sin which is the enemy of God.
That is rather obtuse. Words are human, feelings are human, our hearts are human.
Now I shared about my daughter before, and transporting some art to college.
So your memory is not very good, and you seem extremely dismissive.
Do you know Jesus calls us to love our fellow man, and speak gently with him?
You are very quick to condemn and write off others with no evidence yet you fail
in such a public manner, does that not bother you, or are you above such spiritual
realities?
Now I shared about my daughter before, and transporting some art to college.
So your memory is not very good, and you seem extremely dismissive.
Do you know Jesus calls us to love our fellow man, and speak gently with him?
You are very quick to condemn and write off others with no evidence yet you fail
in such a public manner, does that not bother you, or are you above such spiritual
realities?
I don't waste my time hating people. I used to be a perpetually wounded soul....because I was very wounded. Then I realized that I have a choice in the matter....and I began to renew my mind. I began to think like God intends for me to think. Not that I do it perfectly. I don't hate anyone on this thread. I might think they got some errors in their thinking....I probably wouldn't hang around with a few of them if they constantly had a twig up their hind end like they appear to have by what they say here....but I don't hate them. I just choose my friends wisely.
Called chastisement or a good butt whippin.....EVERY SON HE RECEIVES......
Funny thing...many over look that GOD only whips CHILDREN......CHILDREN that stray, live IN SIN continually, those who refuse to confess and get right as in fellowship.....they never LOSE their salvation...because GOD only chastises SONS......
The very logic of those who claim one can lose salvation denies this very point.....GOD ONLY WHIPS CHILDREN.......!
Well Sirk, there are many who are weak in spirit. We are not to rebuke the weakness in others, only lift them up if we can. I myself am weak in spirit looking for upliftment. Observing the way people speak to each other, it makes me feel more hopeless really. So to interject, I think it was a good thing, if we all learn something from it. I mean we can continue, but, things don't always have to become an endless continuation of the same thing. Things can change. When things change that makes us all feel stronger in spirit, that God is present, like seeing our child be born. We can turn things around. Realise that sometimes we are lost, but then we are found.