Have you believed the false grace message?

[eternally-gratefull]

To take care that you are not disqualified from the race after you have preached to others does not, in my understanding, mean that you you just don't get the trophy but you still win.

So we do have to earn salvation, Because we can become disqualified (even though scripture says we can never be qualified)


Paul was not talking about salvation there, He was talking about the race of life. and being able to teach others.. He could lose his light, and his testimony, and lose his ability to teach.. I know many pastors who have done this, because they commited some sins,,

It means you have lost and are disqualified. It's a race of trust.

That means salvation, eternal life, and justification are not gifts, but rewards. and we can save ourselves..

why can you not see this?

You can't throw away the trust that saves you and then say that trust is not necessary. I'm not even sure why you would want to.

I do not believe you can, nor would..

People who walk away, as John said, never had trust to begin with. "they were never of us, if they were, they would have stayed" were the words he used.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To stop persevering in trust IS to stop trusting God...
Do you think these are two different thing...?

can you answer the question? your deflecting like peter always does..

 

[Ariel82]

No my question is who is going to stop having faith in God?

I lose faith in human people because they are not trustworthy and fail me, When will God ever fail you to the point you lose complete faith in him?

Someone people pray often "Lord help my unbelief."

People don't lose faith in God. Often they don't have much faith to begin with.

However one doesn't get more faith by wishing it or focusing on your lack of faith.

Faith is a gift from God and each person has a certain measure.

I find many of this debates sad because people dont take a step back and see how blessed they are to have a deep abiding faith in God.

Don't recognize it's a gift of faith to have blessed assurance of how God will save.

Instead they stuff scriptures down the throats of others who need more love and gentleness, because faith doesn't grow because anyone wills it to increase.

Faith increases because people learn to trust and truly believe in God's love for them. Faith increases when we see how unworthy we are but know that God's love is unconditional.

The disciples asked Jesus how they could increase their faith. He told them to realize that even if they did everything commanded by God, they were but unprofitable servants doing only what was expected.

So even if you follow all the laws of God perfectly,even if you are perfectly sinless, that does not make you more worthy. It makes you an unprofitable servant doing only what is expected.

The law shows how a good servant should be.

However the gospel tells us how Jesus death on the cross allows us to be children of God. No longer slaves but joint heirs with Christ.

 

[gb9]

Ok what I mean by intervene, is all guns blazing, this is the way things are guys,
so here is the judgement.

And I am not going to drop "legalist" diatribe as you put it.
People who choose to take a legalistic view of things is actually a type of psychology
or mindset. And am I here to make friends with those who literally disown me from
the faith? Does the Lord say continue in loving kindness towards those who say the
follow Jesus yet issue terrible evil accusations against one in His name?

He says simply, have nothing to do with them.

And the internet plays into the hands of those most strident, because the answer is
be meek and mild, be sympathetic, try and be friendly rather than point out the obvious.

So my friend, tell me my lie?

And when conclusions are drawn which so obviously contradict scripture, are extreme
and general but sound nice to those who do not read scripture much, their fate is in
their own hands. But God bless you, in your efforts.

I just realised it is futile, other than standing as a signpost and refuting obvious points.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Rev 3:20

Whoever has ears, let them hear.
Matt 11:15

Then Jesus said, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
Mark 4:9

As it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”
Rom 11:8

telling other people what they believe, what is in their heart, how they " feel ", calling dis-agreement bullying , saying you don't slander anyone, say that you are being called evil when you are not.........

oh, sorry, you asked for one lie to be pointed out, I just got on a roll, there are so many to choose from.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, it doesn't matter, right? You could have continued that way forever. Trusting is not necessary except in the beginning, to grab eternal life. After that it's all just a choice on if you feel like trusting. It's optional.

This really gets old. It is evident you did not read a word I said, or at the least. Not all of them.

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull

No I never said that?

I asked you who would stop trusting Jesus,, i was a prodigal son for 5 years. I never completely lost my faith in Jesus, but I did become faithless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone people pray often "Lord help my unbelief."

People don't lose faith in God. Often they don't have much faith to begin with.

However one doesn't get more faith by wishing it or focusing on your lack of faith.

Faith is a gift from God and each person has a certain measure.

I find many of this debates sad because people dont take a step back and see how blessed they are to have a deep abiding faith in God.

Don't recognize it's a gift of faith to have blessed assurance of how God will save.

Instead they stuff scriptures down the throats of others who need more love and gentleness, because faith doesn't grow because anyone wills it to increase.

Faith increases because people learn to trust and truly believe in God's love for them. Faith increases when we see how unworthy we are but know that God's love is unconditional.

The disciples asked Jesus how they could increase their faith. He told them to realize that even if they did everything commanded by God, they were but unprofitable servants doing only what was expected.

So even if you follow all the laws of God perfectly,even if you are perfectly sinless, that does not make you more worthy. It makes you an unprofitable servant doing only what is expected.

The law shows how a good servant should be.

However the gospel tells us how Jesus death on the cross allows us to be children of God. No longer slaves but joint heirs with Christ.

Amen, Especially in bolded points..

How can we say a person lost faith? Faith is a gift, it to is not our own.. It is trust in God, because it is HIS WORK we are trusting, Not our own..

Lord I do not believe, help me in my unbelief. in that moment of faithlessness, God was faithful, and did what the guy asked..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

So we do have to earn salvation, Because we can become disqualified (even though scripture says we can never be qualified)


Paul was not talking about salvation there, He was talking about the race of life. and being able to teach others.. He could lose his light, and his testimony, and lose his ability to teach.. I know many pastors who have done this, because they commited some sins,,



That means salvation, eternal life, and justification are not gifts, but rewards. and we can save ourselves..

why can you not see this?



I do not believe you can, nor would..

People who walk away, as John said, never had trust to begin with. "they were never of us, if they were, they would have stayed" were the words he used.

You walked away for 5 years. Does that mean you never had trust to begin with?

 

[notuptome]

Amen, Especially in bolded points..

How can we say a person lost faith? Faith is a gift, it to is not our own.. It is trust in God, because it is HIS WORK we are trusting, Not our own..

Lord I do not believe, help me in my unbelief. in that moment of faithlessness, God was faithful, and did what the guy asked..

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God.

Read and listen to God and His Holy Spirit will fill you with faith and the power to believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ariel82]

Sorry. Korah's rebellion was against Moses and Arons leadership.

They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, “You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the Lord’s assembly?”
Numbers 16:3

these ungodly people ......
Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
Jude 1:11
.

Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance.

Numbers 16

8 And Moses said to Korah, “Hear now, you sons of Levi: 9 is it too small a thing for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself, to do service in the tabernacle of the Lord and to stand before the congregation to minister to them, 10 and that he has brought you near him, and all your brothers the sons of Levi with you? And would you seek the priesthood also? 11 Therefore it is against the Lord that you and all your company have gathered together. What is Aaron that you grumble against him?”


20 And the Lord spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, 21 “Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.” 22 And they fell on their faces and said, “O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and will you be angry with all the congregation?” 23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 “Say to the congregation, Get away from the dwelling of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.”

28 And Moses said, “Hereby you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these works, and that it has not been of my own accord. 29 If these men die as all men die, or if they are visited by the fate of all mankind, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord creates something new, and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol, then you shall know that these men have despised the Lord.”

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You walked away for 5 years. Does that mean you never had trust to begin with?

Did I say I completely lost faith in Jesus? I took my circumstances of life, God mad at the church and blamed it on god. Like happens to many of Gods people..

Did the prodigal son stop being the son??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance.

Numbers 16

8 And Moses said to Korah, “Hear now, you sons of Levi: 9 is it too small a thing for you that the God of Israel has separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself, to do service in the tabernacle of the Lord and to stand before the congregation to minister to them, 10 and that he has brought you near him, and all your brothers the sons of Levi with you? And would you seek the priesthood also? 11 Therefore it is against the Lord that you and all your company have gathered together. What is Aaron that you grumble against him?”


20 And the Lord spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, 21 “Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.” 22 And they fell on their faces and said, “O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and will you be angry with all the congregation?” 23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 “Say to the congregation, Get away from the dwelling of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.”

28 And Moses said, “Hereby you shall know that the Lord has sent me to do all these works, and that it has not been of my own accord. 29 If these men die as all men die, or if they are visited by the fate of all mankind, then the Lord has not sent me. 30 But if the Lord creates something new, and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that belongs to them, and they go down alive into Sheol, then you shall know that these men have despised the Lord.”

can we honestly say any more it is ignorant?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen, Especially in bolded points..

How can we say a person lost faith? Faith is a gift, it to is not our own.. It is trust in God, because it is HIS WORK we are trusting, Not our own..

Lord I do not believe, help me in my unbelief. in that moment of faithlessness, God was faithful, and did what the guy asked..

A few months ago we had a conversation, a very long one, in which you said eternal life by faith through grace and that not of yourself, meant that the GRACE was not of you but the faith was your own. I am happy to see you now believe the faith was the "and that not of yourself."

Do you think the parable of the talents might come into play now? You were given a talent (a measure of faith.) Now what?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Did I say I completely lost faith in Jesus? I took my circumstances of life, God mad at the church and blamed it on god. Like happens to many of Gods people..

Did the prodigal son stop being the son??

Well, according to you it doesn't matter whether he returned to abiding in his fathers house or not, so is any discussion of it necessary? Whether he returned or not makes no real difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A few months ago we had a conversation, a very long one, in which you said eternal life by faith through grace and that not of yourself, meant that the GRACE was not of you but the faith was your own. I am happy to see you now believe the faith was the "and that not of yourself."

Do you think the parable of the talents might come into play now? You were given a talent (a measure of faith.) Now what?

does 1 cor 3 mean much?

Wood hay straw, Gold silver precious stone..

even if you LOST all reward (it was burnt) You would still be saved even though as through fire?

I am not talking about reward though, I am talking about salvation. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

why do you want to keep talking about reward?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, according to you it doesn't matter whether he returned to abiding in his fathers house or not, so is any discussion of it necessary? Whether he returned or not makes no real difference.

oh boy,,

Your right, there can be no discussion..

Your all about your ability or your work of abiding, Not in God saving you..

The son still had his fathers blood. He still had his fathers name.. That could never be broken,

What he lost was his fathers blessing, and provisions for living in this life..

He never lost his fathers sonship

 

[Ariel82]

can we honestly say any more it is ignorant?

I typed this but my edit time ended too soon to post it.

Korah rebellion is not against Moses or Aaron, but God's authority and His way of doing things.

Many people don't rebell against the Church or the ways things are done, but against God himself because they want to do it their way instead of His way.

So maybe your example is not bad, because it does illustrate how many believe themselves justified to rebell. They are like the sons of Korah who believed that they should be equal with Moses or Aaron and seek to grasp power and authority that God has not entrusted to them. We do have self appointed prophets and apostles that seek to control God's people.

So maybe the story of korah rebellion is a good one to re examine.

 

[notuptome]

Well, according to you it doesn't matter whether he returned to abiding in his fathers house or not, so is any discussion of it necessary? Whether he returned or not makes no real difference.

Certainly we need to see that his father received him and forgave him for his wayward behavior. If we fail to see our God as forgiving and faithful we are left with a god like to allah. Do you think God is capricious and unable to be touched by our infirmities?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Ariel82]

does 1 cor 3 mean much?

Wood hay straw, Gold silver precious stone..

even if you LOST all reward (it was burnt) You would still be saved even though as through fire?

I am not talking about reward though, I am talking about salvation. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

why do you want to keep talking about reward?

She is not, she has a different understanding of the parable of the talents than you do.

Hint...she says talents is a measure of faith.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

does 1 cor 3 mean much?

Wood hay straw, Gold silver precious stone..

even if you LOST all reward (it was burnt) You would still be saved even though as through fire?

I am not talking about reward though, I am talking about salvation. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

why do you want to keep talking about reward?

I don't want to talk about reward. I want to talk about trusting and whether it is necessary to persevere in it and whether it is growing or not. But you seem to be saying none of that matters to life and has no effect on a mans eternity. The one who hid his talent in the ground and did not try to make sure it grew was thrown into the fire but the fire just means: lost some rewards.

 

[Ariel82]

Well, according to you it doesn't matter whether he returned to abiding in his fathers house or not, so is any discussion of it necessary? Whether he returned or not makes no real difference.

That's not really what he said.

He says that God makes it possible for people to abide. It is NOT BY anyone's effort but he attributes The ability to abide in the power of God alone.

Still don't know why y'all are debating about.


Most of it is that you are both misunderstanding each other.