Not By Works

Roughsoul1991 · Mar 25, 2017

Ephesians 2_8-10
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 not by works, so that no one can boast.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 For we are God’s handiwork, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][h=1]Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ[/h][FONT=&quot]4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Matthew 13Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. 21 Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction[d] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

For this very reason is why infants in the faith are at such a crucial point of survival. Like real infants, they need milk to grow and eventually whole food to supply the growing body. Or an infant will die if withheld from whole food as the body starves from the growing need of nutrition.

15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.

Best believe we can still fall into sin if we allow a foothold.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Grieve- to cause great distress. Why? Ephesians 4:7 explains because God can not be mocked and the seal holds as we honor God and giving God all the glory with our life.
[/FONT]
[h=1]Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Another place we see a warning in mocking God with sin is in

23 Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works, 25 not staying away from our worship meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.[/FONT]
[h=3]Warning against Deliberate Sin[/h][FONT=&quot]26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries. 28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane[d] the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay,[e][f] and again, The Lord will judge His people.[g] 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God![/FONT]

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

First of all...Jesus was Jewish and there is no evidence of blue eyes....

Second...the bible teaches salvation is current possession now said more times to you than can be counted by many....

Third...salvation is not a reward for works it is a gift because of faith......

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2017

Still waiting for you to honestly answer the question below...one you skipped right over....simple answer...you have three choices to choose from

Not quite.....you still fall short in the knowledge area....SO...simple question...see if you can answer it with two words without tap dancing all over the place....what tense is the bolded below?

The bible speaks of salvation in all three tenses....so....reject the truth......deny all you want....the verbiage of the bible overrides your opinion!

He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Ephesians 2_8-10
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—9 not by works, so that no one can boast.10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)

Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ

4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love

11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

Matthew 13Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

20 And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. 21 Yet he has no root in himself, but is short-lived. When pressure or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now the one sown among the thorns—this is one who hears the word, but the worries of this age and the seduction[d] of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

For this very reason is why infants in the faith are at such a crucial point of survival. Like real infants, they need milk to grow and eventually whole food to supply the growing body. Or an infant will die if withheld from whole food as the body starves from the growing need of nutrition.

15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to your neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26 “In your anger do not sin”[d]: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,27 and do not give the devil a foothold.

Best believe we can still fall into sin if we allow a foothold.

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Grieve- to cause great distress. Why? Ephesians 4:7 explains because God can not be mocked and the seal holds as we honor God and giving God all the glory with our life.

Ephesians 4New International Version (NIV)

7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Another place we see a warning in mocking God with sin is in

23 Let us hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us be concerned about one another in order to promote love and good works, 25 not staying away from our worship meetings, as some habitually do, but encouraging each other, and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Warning against Deliberate Sin

26For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries. 28 If anyone disregards Moses’ law, he dies without mercy, based on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think one will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God, regarded as profane[d] the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know the One who has said, Vengeance belongs to Me, I will repay,[e][f] and again, The Lord will judge His people.[g] 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

HOW about context or does that even matter and what is your point?

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

dcontroversal said:

may i remind you of truth that we a judged accordinbg to our deeds,,, secondly works is a part of salvation.. as it is a part of your faith...

Do you accept this...?..

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

i just saw your eyes go blue in your avatar dc lol... do you have blue eyes ?

Matthew 6:9–13 (ESV) "Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.'

may i also add that this prayer well and truly spells onced saved and once save again....

wsblind · Mar 25, 2017

dcontroversal said:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dcontroversal again.

Roughsoul1991 · Mar 25, 2017

dcontroversal said:

As to the reason you seem to ignore the rest of Ephesians.

Grace777x70 · Mar 25, 2017

Context does matter in all scripture. We can make scriptures say whatever we want if we don't accurately divide them. All scripture needs to be filtered through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and resurrection and the fact that we have died with Him on the cross and rose to newness of life in Him in His resurrection too.

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Works-based salvationists mindsets will always stumble at the preaching of Christ and His finished work of salvation for us.

They will read with Old Covenant eyes and interpret scriptures through this lens - Paul said with the reading of Moses there is a veil over the eyes and Christ has become a stumbling block to them and they are blinded to the truths of Christ finished work for us.

The Old Covenant mindset was - "you do in order to receive". The New Covenant is "Believe and receive all that Christ has already done by grace through faith in Him".

Then His life will flow in and through us to a hurt and dying world. His fruit is being manifested in our lives as we depend totally on His grace through faith in Him and what he has already done for us. Without Him we can do nothing. He is our life.

Remember - everything in the scriptures is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

We need to filter all scripture through the clear scriptures of the salvation that is in Christ because of His grace. We receive this grace of His work by faith when we believed.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

There are many warning scriptures that speak of destruction on this earth by walking after the flesh. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and the truth of this will be readily apparent.

We must separate out the saving of destructive things in this temporal life and eternal salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity. We are joined as one spirit forever with the Lord in our inner man that is a new creation in Christ but we need to have our minds renewed to the truths of the finished work of Christ.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16 - He is not a liar. We can trust Him that we are safe in Him because of what He has done - now let's grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

I don't know what your talking about......what is your point....this thread is about salvation based upon faith void of works....

One is saved to do the works...not saved because of the works.....and your Hebrews quote has nothing to do with salvation, but rather forsaking the assembly and counting the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing.....

so...again I ask what is your point?

dcontroversal · Mar 25, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Still waiting for you to honestly answer the question below...one you skipped right over....simple answer...you have three choices to choose from

Not quite.....you still fall short in the knowledge area....SO...simple question...see if you can answer it with two words without tap dancing all over the place....what tense is the bolded below?

The bible speaks of salvation in all three tenses....so....reject the truth......deny all you want....the verbiage of the bible overrides your opinion!

He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Context does matter in all scripture. We can make scriptures say whatever we want if we don't accurately divide them. All scripture needs to be filtered through the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross and resurrection and the fact that we have died with Him on the cross and rose to newness of life in Him in His resurrection too.

Here is a scripture that says that if anyone who has ever sinned against God will be blotted out of the book. This means that all of us have been blotted out of God's book for who has not ever sinned? No one.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is a true statement but it is not the ultimate statement of truth because what Christ did on the cross and resurrection trumps this truth.

Works-based salvationists mindsets will always stumble at the preaching of Christ and His finished work of salvation for us.

They will read with Old Covenant eyes and interpret scriptures through this lens - Paul said with the reading of Moses there is a veil over the eyes and Christ has become a stumbling block to them and they are blinded to the truths of Christ finished work for us.

The Old Covenant mindset was - "you do in order to receive". The New Covenant is "Believe and receive all that Christ has already done by grace through faith in Him".

Then His life will flow in and through us to a hurt and dying world. His fruit is being manifested in our lives as we depend totally on His grace through faith in Him and what he has already done for us. Without Him we can do nothing. He is our life.

Remember - everything in the scriptures is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth.

We need to filter all scripture through the clear scriptures of the salvation that is in Christ because of His grace. We receive this grace of His work by faith when we believed.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

There are many warning scriptures that speak of destruction on this earth by walking after the flesh. Take up shooting heroin in your arms and the truth of this will be readily apparent.

We must separate out the saving of destructive things in this temporal life and eternal salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity. We are joined as one spirit forever with the Lord in our inner man that is a new creation in Christ.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16 - He is not a liar. We can trust Him that we are safe in Him because of what He has done - now let's grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

all your doing is diverting from the truth... all will be saved and all will be judged is to diffrent contexts... the bible God wants all to be saved but not all will.....

His will is strong but one must follow....one must pray not to give into temtptation... your twisted theology stops a christian from thinking he may never fall... mr perfectionist.............. you theology lets a man thinks hes the done deal.. no need to pray the lords prayer then either... enough said..

wsblind · Mar 25, 2017

dcontroversal said:

And not to mention.......

New American Standard Bible
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,

Saved,calling, grace was granted.....All in the Aorist tense.

An action that is ATTAINED.

Roughsoul1991 · Mar 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

And in context I see in every book that it matters how we live after excepting Christ as savior. We are sealed who remains in the faith and the spirit remains in us to help us to do this. Nothing forces us though to remain in faith that would go against Gods nature.

[h=1]2 Peter 2:20-22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit,[a] and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”[/FONT]

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

And in context I see in every book that it matters how we live after excepting Christ as savior. We are sealed who remains in the faith and the spirit remains in us to help us to do this. Nothing forces us though to remain in faith that would go against Gods nature.

2 Peter 2:20-22Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

20 For if, having escaped the world’s impurity through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in these things and defeated, the last state is worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy command delivered to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit,[a] and, “a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud.”

yup and we all know what happend to the pigs... they all fell of the cliff.

Grace777x70 · Mar 25, 2017

The message of Christ's finished work on the cross and in His resurrection is the truth. Jesus Himself is the Truth. Here is the process.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit ( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past that is completed.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

the gospel of salvation is a book from start to finish... just like you havent passed the finishing line... only Jesus did that in the flesh..

Grace777x70 · Mar 25, 2017

Roughsoul1991 said:

Go to the context of that scripture and you will find out that Peter is talking about false prophets/teachers ( such as those that deny the work of Christ's work alone by grace through faith for salvation and life )

2 Peter 2:1 shows exactly who Peter is talking about in that 2nd chapter.

JIMBO43 · Mar 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

no works does not take away from faith.... your twisted theology does

Grace777x70 · Mar 25, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..

then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.

Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell. Walking after the flesh will bring destruction and as I say take up shooting heroin in your arms and swift destruction will come while we are in this earth.

Works-based mindsets see this as being tossed out of Christ forever for some crazy anti-Christ and anti-the gospel reason. Jesus said that the new creation is joined as one spirit with the Lord by the Holy Spirit forever.

Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us for those that want to look at this scripture in detail.

Click on this link below.

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