Who is the tree?
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it doesnt change obedience and repentance it has always been the same from adam to cain to the prophets to Jesus to the apostles to the revelation. do yourself a study on the phrase " be not deceived in the new testament and you will find the same warning " what you do is what matters" Jesus made us able through the spirit if we have received the spirit were now without excuse. there will never be anything that ever changes righteousness and sin and thier consequence, from adam to the end the deception is " you dont really need to actually obey Gods word" <<that comes in many forms but it will always be a deception. i know people hate to hear that but it doesnt make it any different what is written is written.
I believe "abiding in the Vine" is a position that we have as a new creation in Christ and also as a way for His life to manifest in our lives. Unless we remain/abide/stay with what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection we will not bear His fruit as we should. The branches do not produce our own fruit.
The life of the Vine produces the fruit and the branches "bear" the fruit. It's the "sap" of His life being manifested in and through us to reflect His love and grace towards others that need to see Him for who He and the Father truly are.
I understand there is a positional aspect as well which has to do with our permanent position "in Christ" and has to do with His finished work for our salvation and the fact that we have believed and received the message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
Here is a short 2 minute video that talks about the positional aspect of abiding in Christ if anyone is interested in this subject.
https://www.facebook.com/DrAndrewFa...247856949/1266086653462667/?type=3&permPage=1
The life of the Vine produces the fruit and the branches "bear" the fruit. It's the "sap" of His life being manifested in and through us to reflect His love and grace towards others that need to see Him for who He and the Father truly are.
I understand there is a positional aspect as well which has to do with our permanent position "in Christ" and has to do with His finished work for our salvation and the fact that we have believed and received the message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ.
Here is a short 2 minute video that talks about the positional aspect of abiding in Christ if anyone is interested in this subject.
https://www.facebook.com/DrAndrewFa...247856949/1266086653462667/?type=3&permPage=1
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We are not the Gardener 
This is really a simple picture. I'm not sure why there is misunderstanding. But, this comes from the revelation that Jesus gave to Paul.
Perhaps there is the problem?
Paul was the one who said he was born out of time. Meaning his time of life on earth was not what he knew was to happen...
There are those now who are moving in the supernatural doing the works of God on this earth as forerunners. Do you not all believe there is an army to rise?
The high calling he was running the race for....
E
it is still wrong.
The word used means to life up or to raise. When branches are laying on the ground they tend to die or wither and not produce fruit.. The gardner then lifts up or raises the branch in order to give it room.. Then it starts to produce.
To say it is cut off or taken away is to state salvation can be lost..
The word used means to life up or to raise. When branches are laying on the ground they tend to die or wither and not produce fruit.. The gardner then lifts up or raises the branch in order to give it room.. Then it starts to produce.
To say it is cut off or taken away is to state salvation can be lost..
Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness. This gives the lie to your statement. It is true faith that matters.
Now to him that works his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due, but to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but BELIEVES Him Who justified THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted as righteousness (Rom 4.a4-5)
The rebirth follows justification, and justification has already saved. The work of rebirth FOLLOWS justification. You are giving us man made wisdom.,
except the New Testament message which is one of grace (God's undeserved favour shown in action).
.
Nobody sensible teaches that. Those who suggest otherwise are LYING.
You have misunderstood and perverted what is written. You do not know the Gospel!!!
Now to him that works his wages are not reckoned as a gift but as his due, but to the one who DOES NOT WORK, but BELIEVES Him Who justified THE UNGODLY, his faith is counted as righteousness (Rom 4.a4-5)
The rebirth follows justification, and justification has already saved. The work of rebirth FOLLOWS justification. You are giving us man made wisdom.,
except the New Testament message which is one of grace (God's undeserved favour shown in action).
.
Nobody sensible teaches that. Those who suggest otherwise are LYING.
You have misunderstood and perverted what is written. You do not know the Gospel!!!
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I find it odd that you think only one other person besides you
understands that unbelievers get cut off from the tree of life.
Here is a response I have given before on the Tree of Life:
As Christians, we are exhorted to bear fruit.
We know we are not trees, but only {metaphorical} branches, offshoots of the true vine, Jesus Christ. I believe He was the {metaphorical} tree of Life placed in the garden of Eden; He holds the keys to life and death; all life is in Him; He is author and giver of life etc, and eternal life is promised to those who surrender to and abide in Him (John 15:4-5).
The fruit we are to bear has different aspects to it. One is character building: the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Peter adds to this: make every effort to add to your faith excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love. For if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.
So our life surrendered to God, and our works through faith are fruit, and so are people who come to Christ through us (Rom 1:3; Phil 4:17), and there is also the fruit of our lips as we praise God and witness to others (Heb 13:15).
These are good fruits, partaken of when aligned with the will of God.
Evil fruits would be the result of disobeying God, defying God, following self will in opposition to God's will, severing ourselves from fellowship with Him, etc. That is the fruit Adam and Eve bore and ate (lived). They followed the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life, in turning away from God after being in fellowship with Him. It is what we all do before being regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God.
I think it will be wonderful to be restored to the garden in the new earth. Come LORD Jesus.
understands that unbelievers get cut off from the tree of life.
Here is a response I have given before on the Tree of Life:
As Christians, we are exhorted to bear fruit.
We know we are not trees, but only {metaphorical} branches, offshoots of the true vine, Jesus Christ. I believe He was the {metaphorical} tree of Life placed in the garden of Eden; He holds the keys to life and death; all life is in Him; He is author and giver of life etc, and eternal life is promised to those who surrender to and abide in Him (John 15:4-5).
The fruit we are to bear has different aspects to it. One is character building: the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Peter adds to this: make every effort to add to your faith excellence, to excellence, knowledge; to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love. For if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately.
So our life surrendered to God, and our works through faith are fruit, and so are people who come to Christ through us (Rom 1:3; Phil 4:17), and there is also the fruit of our lips as we praise God and witness to others (Heb 13:15).
These are good fruits, partaken of when aligned with the will of God.
Evil fruits would be the result of disobeying God, defying God, following self will in opposition to God's will, severing ourselves from fellowship with Him, etc. That is the fruit Adam and Eve bore and ate (lived). They followed the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life, in turning away from God after being in fellowship with Him. It is what we all do before being regenerated by the Holy Spirit of God.
I think it will be wonderful to be restored to the garden in the new earth. Come LORD Jesus.
but the vine is NOT life in the Spirit. It is Jesus Christ, and to be a branch in the vine is to be a nominal disciple of Jesus.
The branches that are cut off are nominal braches only. The true believers are pruned so as to bring forth more fruit.
and to suggest the international standard version is the most accurate is nonsense, It is a paraphrase,
The branches that are cut off are nominal braches only. The true believers are pruned so as to bring forth more fruit.
and to suggest the international standard version is the most accurate is nonsense, It is a paraphrase,
Actually if we do a word study on John 15:2 - we will see that the meaning of the word "cuts off" which some translations say actually means to "lift up or take up."
Here is Jesus using the same Greek word.
Matthew 9:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matthew 24:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mark 2:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
I think there is more to this "cuts off" then meets the eye because I believe the Father lifts those up off the ground in order to help them to see Christ so that they too can bear His fruit in them.
This is something to consider for the belief that we need to remain in Christ's finished work in order to manifest His fruit in our lives.
What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener!
A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun.
Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son. They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love.
When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.
What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours.
If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us. We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).
Here is Jesus using the same Greek word.
Matthew 9:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matthew 24:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mark 2:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
I think there is more to this "cuts off" then meets the eye because I believe the Father lifts those up off the ground in order to help them to see Christ so that they too can bear His fruit in them.
This is something to consider for the belief that we need to remain in Christ's finished work in order to manifest His fruit in our lives.
What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener!
A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun.
Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son. They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love.
When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.
What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours.
If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us. We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).
The Tree of Life is a 'Her' BTW...
Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations"
Proverbs 3:18
"She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her"
Wisdom.
Revelation 22:2
"In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations"
Proverbs 3:18
"She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her"
Wisdom.
