Not By Works

willybob · Mar 29, 2017

a second repentance from the vile sins of the flesh is almost an impossible task, and only a couple of examples are found in the OT. Returning to ones vomit is the parable of the wondering spirit..The father of the OSAS myth and the magical transfer by proxy was the heretic Martin Luther who believed that man had no freewill, and could not stop sinning, thus he perceived the forgone conclusion of scripture was the vile sins of the flesh, but rather the truth is the forgone conclusion is love ("ie" righteousness from that of heart purity)....Luther actually thought you could commit vile sins abundantly to get back at the devil...Resulting in Satan casting out Satan I suppose?

He was really a mixed bag of nuts, one statement after another contradicting himself...

JIMBO43 · Mar 29, 2017

i just wonder if the mentality of souther baptists comes into play here,,, that they believe water baptism saves you forever ?..... now one can hope that once you confess in water baptism that youll never need to confess again,,,, but the reality is in the last days many will abandon this faith,,, i sugest you go figure.... its not rocket science is it...

Sully · Mar 29, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Do you have a category for humans that are unknown? Maybe call it Mars Hill...

dcontroversal · Mar 30, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

I know a few SB and none of them believe in water salvation...but rather they believe in salvation dia faith based upon grace......

JohnTalmid · Mar 30, 2017

I find it interesting that bad works is defined as a sin or breaking the law of God. However if it is said that good works is defined as guarding the law of God you become a legalistic salvation by works guy. Ya'll may have rejected my viewpoint but God rejected the ungodly based on their unfaithfulness in keeping his instructions. You too will be judged as rejecting Messiah on this point. In other words it will be said of them, get away from me you workers of lawlessness I never knew you.

So Shure pray but what matters more is if your prayers are heard. Don't say they are because you believe in Messiah, because even the fallen angels believe. They have it better in a way because they fear YHWH, most of us who claim to know God don't fear him based on our works.

Before you say love has cast out fear. Don't forget it is written godly fear leads us to do what is right to Elohim. Also if you loved Messiah you too would do the unchanging will of the Father in Heaven.

So before you say I am preaching a works based salvation again remember also it is written to not lean on your own understanding as you have been doing with me. It is obvious.

As it is also said to the sameritain the Jews know who they worship. Not to say I now can't worship him anywhere I am because I do.

JohnTalmid · Mar 30, 2017

I have found Christ Community to be some of the most well versed in Scripture. That is to say I meet more of them coming out of Babylon than other churches. When ever they come out however they usually are well versed.

JesusRules1 · Mar 30, 2017

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1Pe 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Rev 19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

We must fear the LORD for it is a requirement that puts us in the proper perspective of a relationship with Him,and the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom and knowledge,for without the fear of the LORD we cannot even begin to understand the truth,the whole truth,and nothing but the truth,so help us God,which He will if you fear Him.

But what does this fear contain,and how are we supposed to act accordingly to this fear.

Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

And this is it for to properly fear the LORD one must not engage in sin,and hate evil,for those who sin do not hate evil,and why does this entail fear,because God will punish the sin,so anybody that engages in sin,whether they claim Christ or not,have punishment coming,and should not thou fear if you do wrong,and that is the point,people that engage in sin do not fear the LORD,for if they feared the LORD they would not sin,but many people will make excuses.

Fear of the LORD is a must have in order to have a relationship with God,and the beginning of wisdom and knowledge,and this fear of the LORD is to hate evil,and hate sin,not do it,and we have a choice to do good,and can dismiss the evil,so there is no excuse.

But some people will still make excuses,oh woe is me,for I cannot stop sinning,when the choice of good is all up in their face for the choosing,and even the world can abstain from sin if they want,for they choose what sins they like and do not like,like many that claim Christ that say,we cannot abstain from sin.

If you do not want to sin and mean it,what is stopping you,for you have the choice to do good,so it is obvious that some people want to sin,and then make excuses we cannot abstain from sin,because they want to believe they are right with God despite their sinning.

A person led of the Spirit made the choice they do not want to sin,and means it,so by the Spirit it can be attainable,for God causes the impact of temptation to be lessened in their life compared to the world,so they can overcome it easily,and the Spirit guides them to good,but it is because they choose not to sin,and mean it.

wsblind · Mar 30, 2017

JohnTalmid said:

I find it interesting that bad works is defined as a sin or breaking the law of God. However if it is said that good works is defined as guarding the law of God you become a legalistic salvation by works guy. Ya'll may have rejected my viewpoint but God rejected the ungodly based on their unfaithfulness in keeping his instructions. You too will be judged as rejecting Messiah on this point. In other words it will be said of them, get away from me you workers of lawlessness I never knew you.

So Shure pray but what matters more is if your prayers are heard. Don't say they are because you believe in Messiah, because even the fallen angels believe. They have it better in a way because they fear YHWH, most of us who claim to know God don't fear him based on our works.

Before you say love has cast out fear. Don't forget it is written godly fear leads us to do what is right to Elohim. Also if you loved Messiah you too would do the unchanging will of the Father in Heaven.

So before you say I am preaching a works based salvation again remember also it is written to not lean on your own understanding as you have been doing with me. It is obvious.

As it is also said to the sameritain the Jews know who they worship. Not to say I now can't worship him anywhere I am because I do.

No your not preaching a works based salvation. Your preaching a works based loss of salvation.

How can people not see the difference here? Geesh.

JohnTalmid · Mar 30, 2017

So I lost my salvation because I do the instructions of the Father while keeping the testimony of Yeshua the Messiah the Son of YHWH Elohim? I used to believe as you do my friends. There's nothing humanly possible for me to do in my salvation other than, "good works" as the church describes.

These "good works" are the same thing we are warned we cannot gain salvation through. It may be argued that the modern church; if you could put them in one category, put these same good works up on buildings, in pamphlets, pinned up on bulletin boards, and raise funds for the indoctrination of the third world for survants of hell bound for the pit of fire. How bad would it be if that's all the wonderful works we've done in the name of Jesus?
Believing in God is linked; not because I say but because man lives by every word of YHWH Elohim and it is written, mankind linked to the Instruction of YHWH Elohim forever. There is no separate instruction now for those under Messiah and those under the world. That would suggest that YHWH Elohim,(Father) is not God of all. What I have said is that the life giving Spirit Messiah uses the Father's instructions for the building of His Body with Him as the Head. If you reject the commands of Father's Kingdom how could you be putting yourself in the Kingdom without being one like a robber that didn't use the door but rather snuck in naked. He will be tied up and thrown out where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Unmerited favor or Grace is just what it sounds like a gift from your King. Only one master however has the keys to the Kingdom of YHWH Elohim. A democracy elects its representatives. In a monarchy the King selected His subjects based on His will. That is how Father knows you and your name was written in the lambs book of life before the foundation of the Earth. He knows His own.

JohnTalmid · Mar 31, 2017

James... 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected

Shaul... Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law

In other words confirm the law, or do it because we are saved out of love.

Not that difficult to understand if we weren't all brainwashed to think that the law is cursed in regards to keeping it. By the flesh I would agree with most of what has been said, however I'm not talking about keeping it by the flesh because flesh has no inheritance in the Kingdom of Elohim.

JohnTalmid · Mar 31, 2017

JesusRules1 said:

Yes fear of Elohim should lead a soul to repent. Repentance which for example is not feeling sorry for sin and asking Jesus into your heart. Repentance is coming to the understanding through hearing the word that you aren't doing something. If I was to tell you that you should evacuate the chicken nest before gathering the eggs because it is written you should rejoice that your ears have heard a positive position of God and can do it. This won't make your salvation any better or even help you attain salvation however there it is a command from YHWH. If you do it and only if you practice it does that mean you are putting yourself under the law of sin and death? No however you are already under the law of sin and death or don't you know all flesh is condemned by the law because YHWH declared that death is all that can separate you from it. That's why the message of the cross is thus, you are now dead to the world and alive in Messiah. If you do not allow the works of the loving instruction of Father to perfect your faith you may well show up in the Kingdom but without the linen wedding garment of righteousness you have been given to put on.

So go ahead test God but not the way you have been by provoking Messiah as the children of Israel did in the wilderness when fiery surpents destroyed many. Test him by doing this Faith that is good works that lead to life. Your sins have been forgiven and YHWH has brought you to Messiah so you may not be naked when He returns.

JohnTalmid · Mar 31, 2017

willybob said:

Once you have received the grace of God through the attonment of Messiah with his resurrection you put him up on the stake again! Neither can you by the work of the understanding of your heart do a good work worthy of compliment on its own. Our hearts are fully corrupted with sin and insomuch nobody can say they have good intentions anyway only God is good.

If you can be free from a sin then be freed from it. Do you think you're flesh will ever be free of all sin? I however know the truth my life is hidden with Yeshua Messiah and he has placed it in the Father's hand now who can separate me from him? Not me or any power on earth or in heaven can separate me from the love of my Father in Heaven. That is why I keep the command, because I love Him.

I pray y'all are waking up to the truth.

PeterJens · Mar 31, 2017

JohnTalmid said:

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2:10

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Matt 5:16

We all gain knowledge of God from His word, not because we fall into sin
and find it impossible to resolve in our hearts.

Our calling is to repent, confess, believe on Christ and walk in righteousness.
Walking in righteousness is loving our neighbour.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14

FreeNChrist · Mar 31, 2017

Ephesians 2:8-10 - "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."

Philippians 2:13 - "for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

JIMBO43 · Mar 31, 2017

Its just never ending scripture after scripture showing how God saves you and scripture after scripture showing what you must do to remain saved... untill that day... the harvest day for the believers and keeepers and the funeral day for thos who dont...

It really is that simple,,, ILL REPEAT SCRIPTURE THAT SHOWS WHAT gOD CAN DO TO SAVE YOU.... and what you can do to remain saved.. untill the day of approval.........(comfirmation.........) based upon your entire life... and not just 1 3rd of your life.........

FreeNChrist · Mar 31, 2017

'Maintenance workers' actually think God will be pleased with them trying to steal the glory of their salvation for themselves. Glory that belongs to Christ alone. Man, are they in for a big surprise........

PeterJens · Mar 31, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

We are called co-heirs with Christ, sharing in His suffering, being tempted, tested and
refined. He is sharing everything the Lord has, yet you do not believe the words of the
King or the heights to which He has called us.

JohnTalmid · Mar 31, 2017

PeterJens said:

Are you using Gal. To convince me that I am "Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.", For example?

My friend you have been following these days worshiping in vain out of vain no biblical festivals. Indeed I grew up keeping Christmas, Easter, Valentine's day, and others. May I never return to these vain things that puff up the youthful to become egocentric lovers of self rather than God.

Shaul is speaking of the curcumcision faction going about saying that they must convert to Jews in order to be saved. In this day, today men that are curcumcised and not Jewish can get a needle prick on the foreskin to be"official" and now Jewish. Thus putting their whole body under law. Not Torah mind you but rabbinical law. As for me I know the truth for it has made me free. My life is hidden in Yeshua and the spirit of Messiah leads me into all truth and doesn't forsake me or lead me wrong.

Hopefully I have not been rude in your eyes, I have one more observation. Love does cover a multitude of sin however if you're loving your neighbor as yourself why don't you show you love Godly instruction by keeping it. It is said if someone comes in their name you hear them. Here I am because I Love you and cry to sleep at night thinking on how lost I used to be,(like you). Now complete in Messiah and he being completed in me I can see where my error even came from. When I was in confusion there was no real peace, now though there is confusion all around I have peace and rest.

I do hear that you know Scripture however does it know you?

JIMBO43 · Mar 31, 2017

dcontroversal said:

you know a few do you ?...... So i suppose you know them all to ?..........

I suppose then we should also paint everyone with the same brush too ??????........

I see your drift matey. you like others on this thread use noahs ark to show you can recieve comfirmation and your due befor the day of comfirmation....... to prove your painted brush theory... Which issssssssss,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you think your one of the special eight....out of the whole world now which is alot more than then...

The reality is they chosen eight where SAVED AGAIN..... as they where allready saved befor God saved them again by telling them to build an ark.... You my friend have a good chance of remaining one of them chosen eight if you believe God is worth the effort from you daily TO ASK FOR YOUR DAILY BREADY..

FreeNChrist · Mar 31, 2017

PeterJens said:

We who are heirs together with Christ are so because of what He has done, not because of what we have done.

Not By Works

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